"Courage" album - Official Topic

[Nmj]

 

Just found this Video,, what do you guys think

 

Terrible. The distorted her voice so badly, and it’s already distorted to begin with on the original cut.

[manu23]

It's not even about whether there'd be a bull being hurt or not on screen. There wouldn't be. The issue is that the video would be romantisizing this "sport" that is based on animal cruelty (just like Madonna's, although this one is worse).

 

And using arguments about other cruel "cultures" is inaccurate because that means that you're of the opinion that because there's cruelty everywhere we should turn a blind eye to all cruelty? No.

 

On the contrary, if you are so maximalist against animal cruelty that you approve censoring a video that plays a bullfighter dancing, then I understand you live under those principles and are against ALL animal cruelty, including not eating food from farm factories (yes they produce food, but the reason they keep animals under those heartless conditions is to cut costs and maximize benefits). Should Downton Abbey be censored because they show fox hunting? Or Pedro Almodóvar's Oscar winning Talk to Her cause it showed bull fighting? (knowing his political views I doubt he supports bull fighting in any way).

 

Bull fighting in Spain is totally residual, 349 bullfights in 2019, that's around 2,000 bulls killed in a year. Just to put some context, 1.2M animals are "sacredly" slaughtered in a single day during the Hajj. So yes, there is so much to do about animal cruelty but I don't think censorship is the solution.

[maki_Dion-er]

I'm against what glorifies animal cruelty as a sport or for vanity. Especially in modern time. Showing hunting in a show set in 17th century (I don't know, I don't watch that show) where I am assuming it's being shown as something that would happen in that era as opposed to showing how amazing and romantic the people that practice that sport are is different. I've never heard of the movie you mention but I repeat, it has to do with the context that something is portrayed in. For instabce, if a movie wants to deal with domestic abuse and how horrible that is for the victims then that's fine, but if a movie uses domestic abuse as a form to romanticise it and show that the guy/girl just really loves their victim, or how the girl can change the guy blah blah, then it's definitely not okay.

 

 

 

 

 

On the contrary, if you are so maximalist against animal cruelty that you approve censoring a video that plays a bullfighter dancing, then I understand you live under those principles and are against ALL animal cruelty, including not eating food from farm factories (yes they produce food, but the reason they keep animals under those heartless conditions is to cut costs and maximize benefits). Should Downton Abbey be censored because they show fox hunting? Or Pedro Almodóvar's Oscar winning Talk to Her cause it showed bull fighting? (knowing his political views I doubt he supports bull fighting in any way).

 

Bull fighting in Spain is totally residual, 349 bullfights in 2019, that's around 2,000 bulls killed in a year. Just to put some context, 1.2M animals are "sacredly" slaughtered in a single day during the Hajj. So yes, there is so much to do about animal cruelty but I don't think censorship is the solution.

 

I think there are instances where censorship is something positive because, again, if something cruel is being glorified then that essentially leads people to be okay with it. A Bullfighter dancing and being Celine's love interest or her point of desire (even without the bull on screen) is glorifying the sport because the "dance" is a callback to what happens in the ring.

I won't deny though that I see the appeal visually with the traditiinal costumes bullfighters wear and all that. At the end of the day they incorporated a bit of it during the tour. The song never makes me think of this, so I don't understand why they went with this imagery for it.

 

[PuraVida]

I think Celine should have gone for a flamenco themed music video.

 

Clearly, she had this type of influence already present bc they put it in her TCWT act. Traditional Spanish flair, without the gore.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRmfHCDv6ig

Edited March 7, 2021 at 09:41 PM by PuraVida

[Shamrock_1982]

The music in EOM is Middle Eastern not Spanish, so that could have worked better in a video. Edited March 7, 2021 at 10:17 PM by Shamrock_1982

[Nmj]

The music in EOM is Middle Eastern not Spanish, so that could have worked better in a video.

 

The desert of Las Vegas with camels and Arabian theme could’ve worked well.

[PuraVida]

The music in EOM is Middle Eastern not Spanish, so that could have worked better in a video.

 

Do you know the names of the instruments used?

[Del]

Courage has been nominated for album of the year at the Junos. She is facing stiff competition though. Justin Bieber, Leonard Cohen, The Weekend, Ali Gatie

 

Also nominated for artist of the year.

 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

Edited March 9, 2021 at 04:47 PM by Del

[CelineTheBest5]

Céline is nominated in 3 categories at this years Juno Awards: Artist of the Year, Adult Contemporary Album of the Year (Courage) & Album of the Year (Courage). She also holds the record for most nominations at the Juno ever, 73! The event will be in May 16th 2021.

[jpatdeleon09]

Yeah!

 

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Edited March 9, 2021 at 05:11 PM by jpatdeleon09

[ordinary fan]

Yeah!

 

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Great news

[Peppercorn1991]

Fantastic news! Just to be recognised in these categories is brilliant

 

Kev x

[smw]

Céline is nominated in 3 categories at this years Juno Awards: Artist of the Year, Adult Contemporary Album of the Year (Courage) & Album of the Year (Courage). She also holds the record for most nominations at the Juno ever, 73! The event will be in May 16th 2021.

 

Amazing!!

Edited March 9, 2021 at 08:36 PM by smw

[ryba]

Celine rules

[couldawouldashoulda]

So does this mean everyone has changed their mind again and they actually like the Courage album?

[PuraVida]

Changed their minds? Most people on the forum really liked the album...

[Bruno Portugal]

I love this album. IMO Courage is one of Celine’s best albums ever!

[smw]

I love this album. IMO Courage is one of Celine's best albums ever!

 

Agreed. I love that she called all the shots. That's a huge deal. The album is so solid.

I don't love her enunication on certain songs and Celine and her team really didn't build momentum while promoting the album.

But that stuff's far overshadowed by how strong the album is, and how special it is that it's the very first album where Celine made all the decisions by herself / as the boss of her team.

 

Edited March 9, 2021 at 10:53 PM by smw

[scielle]

I think it’s by far her strongest English album. Pity it was so poorly marketed.

[guigafs15]

So does this mean everyone has changed their mind again and they actually like the Courage album?

 

I still think it's a forgettable album, a generic pop with no personality and overproduction of vocals that makes she sounds like a robot. But, considering the things that are being nominated in this awards this days... I mean, this Bieber's album was in every single list of worst albums of 2020!

So, why not Celine? At least Courage it's not bad, it's just generic, and Celine it's a big top touring artist, and deserves some recognition against this newbies, even if it's not her best work. All that matters in this award is the sells number, not quality. And Courage had more decent sells in Canada.

 

I'm happy with her nominations.

Edited March 9, 2021 at 11:45 PM by guigafs15

[scielle]

I still think it's a forgettable album, a generic pop with no personality and overproduction of vocals that makes she sounds like a robot. But, considering the things that are being nominated in this awards this days... I mean, this Bieber's album was in every single list of worst albums of 2020!

So, why not Celine? At least Courage it's not bad, it's just generic, and Celine it's a big top touring artist, and deserves some recognition against this newbies, even if it's not her best work. All that matters in this award is the sells number, not quality. And Courage had more decent sells in Canada.

 

I'm happy with her nominations.

 

It's far less generic than all her other English records. LTAL is almost all skips, the others certainly have some standout tracks, but then suffer from painful duds. This is the only one that's consistent quality songs all the way through.

 

Anyway, I'm starting to think there's some kind of rift between Celine / Celine's camp and the Junos. She hasn't shown up in 20 years. They have to keep nominating her because a lot of these categories are based on sales, in whole or in part, and in Canada she keep selling (so long as the concert-bundles continue to count, at least). Plus she's still not in the Canadian Music Hall of Fame - a glaring omission, as pretty much all her notable contemporaries have been inducted some time ago.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in those meetings...

[PuraVida]

I think Boundaries is really one of her most special songs.

 

Probably one of the most touching songs of her English career since 2000, certainly the most touching since Recovering/My Love before that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FA-JhqNWmE

Edited March 10, 2021 at 01:32 AM by PuraVida

[scielle]

 

Anyway, I'm starting to think there's some kind of rift between Celine / Celine's camp and the Junos. She hasn't shown up in 20 years. They have to keep nominating her because a lot of these categories are based on sales, in whole or in part, and in Canada she keep selling (so long as the concert-bundles continue to count, at least).

Plus she's still not in the Canadian Music Hall of Fame - a glaring omission, as pretty much all her notable contemporaries have been inducted some time ago.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in those meetings...

 

To continue that thought, for context - for one of these categories nominations are determined entirely by sales, and the other 50% by sales.

 

Album of the Year:

Nominees will be determined by consumption only. The nominees will be sent out in January to the Academy Delegates, whose votes will determine the winner.

 

Adult Contemporary Album of the Year:

There are no sales qualifications for this category. Submissions will be adjudicated in two rounds of voting: the judge votes will determine the nominees. The nominees will then appear on the online voting website sent out to all CARAS Academy Delegates in January, whose votes will determine the winner.

 

Artist of the Year:

The nominees will be determined by 50% consumption, 25% Academy Delegate vote 15% social data, and 10% radio audience. Calculations will be performed by PwC. The nominees will then appear on the online voting website sent out to all Academy Delegates in January. The votes of Academy Delegates will determine the winner.

 

Source: https://junoawards.ca/submissions/submission-guidelines/criteria-by-category/

[PuraVida]

To continue that thought, for context - for one of these categories nominations are determined entirely by sales, and the other 50% by sales.

 

Album of the Year:

Nominees will be determined by consumption only. The nominees will be sent out in January to the Academy Delegates, whose votes will determine the winner.

 

Adult Contemporary Album of the Year:

There are no sales qualifications for this category. Submissions will be adjudicated in two rounds of voting: the judge votes will determine the nominees. The nominees will then appear on the online voting website sent out to all CARAS Academy Delegates in January, whose votes will determine the winner.

 

Artist of the Year:

The nominees will be determined by 50% consumption, 25% Academy Delegate vote 15% social data, and 10% radio audience. Calculations will be performed by PwC. The nominees will then appear on the online voting website sent out to all Academy Delegates in January. The votes of Academy Delegates will determine the winner.

 

Source: https://junoawards.c...ia-by-category/

 

But haven't the Canadian Music Hall of Fame not put any Quebecers in there since like 1999 with Luc Plamondon?

 

It seems to me it would be a Quebec-rest of Canada split with those awards. Don't know what happened with the Juno's...did she perform there after 1999?

[scielle]

But haven't the Canadian Music Hall of Fame not put any Quebecers in there since like 1999 with Luc Plamondon?

 

It seems to me it would be a Quebec-rest of Canada split with those awards. Don't know what happened with the Juno's...did she perform there after 1999?

 

No, that's my point, she hasn't.

 

And the Junos are generally thought of as the Anglo music awards, while the ADISQ/ Felix Awards are the Franco version. Junos are technically supposed to be bilingual, but in reality, they haven't historically been good at recognizing French content (unless they have to, because the Francophone albums tend to sell very well, so end up getting nominated in major categories sometimes). But for the rest of Canada, it's often a "huh? who?" kind of nomination. That's why it's often said we've got the "Two Solitudes" up in Canada. The French have their own very vibrant, successful, but largely self-contained culture, while Anglo Canada knows little about it and tends to follow the trends in the US (with notable exceptions like, say, Barenaked Ladies, Jann Arden, Tragically Hip, who have always been huge in Canada but not well known in the US or elsewhere).

 

As for other Quebecers getting inducted since Luc in '99 - there was Daniel Lanois (2002) and technically Corey Hart (2019) is Quebecois, though of course anglophone & known for his English work. But Celine is unique in that she's not only the best selling Canadian artist of all time, but the only one who's been hugely successful in both official languages.

 

Worth saying, too, that the Junos have never been held in Quebec. They use to be uniquely a Toronto affair, but the show has travelled around the country for about 2 decades now, and is still to make it to Quebec.

Edited March 10, 2021 at 02:21 AM by scielle

[PuraVida]

No, that's my point, she hasn't.

 

And the Junos are generally thought of as the Anglo music awards, while the ADISQ/ Felix Awards are the Franco version. Junos are technically supposed to be bilingual, but in reality, they haven't historically been good at recognizing French content (unless they have to, because the Francophone albums tend to sell very well, so end up getting nominated in major categories sometimes). But for the rest of Canada, it's often a "huh? who?" kind of nomination. That's why it's often said we've got the "Two Solitudes" up in Canada. The French have their own very vibrant, successful, but largely self-contained culture, while Anglo Canada knows little about it and tends to follow the trends in the US (with notable exceptions like, say, Barenaked Ladies, Jann Arden, Tragically Hip, who have always been huge in Canada but not well known in the US or elsewhere).

 

As for other Quebecers getting inducted since Luc in '99 - there was Daniel Lanois (2002) and technically Corey Hart (2019) is Quebecois, though of course anglophone & known for his English work. But Celine is unique in that she's not only the best selling Canadian artist of all time, but the only one who's been hugely successful in both official languages.

 

Worth saying, too, that the Junos have never been held in Quebec. They use to be uniquely a Toronto affair, but the show has travelled around the country for about 2 decades now, and is still to make it to Quebec.

 

Daniel Lanois moved away from Quebec at age 10. So it seems that both he and Corey Hart are put in the "technically from Quebec" category.

 

Which is my point, it does not surprise me that the Canadian Music Hall of Fame, which hasn't let in a full Quebecer since Luc Plamondon, is going to snub Celine. I would be shocked if she is not the next Quebec artist to get in, though, whenever that time comes.

 

I see your point. It is all very valid. But also, Celine has not won since 1999, so I doubt she would waste her time to go unless they ask her to perform.

[scielle]

Which is my point, it does not surprise me that the Canadian Music Hall of Fame, which hasn't let in a full Quebecer since Luc Plamondon, is going to snub Celine. I would be shocked if she is not the next Quebec artist to get in, though, whenever that time comes.

 

Oh I don't think they're snubbing her. I think she's snubbing them. The Junos would love to have Celine back on the show and in the HoF. But the artist has to accept. I have read (though who knows if reliable sources) that she was invited but didn't take them up on it. Perhaps she feels it's not time yet. Perhaps she's waiting for the ceremony to come to Quebec and is making a point about it. Perhaps it's more than that.

Edited March 10, 2021 at 03:15 AM by scielle

[PuraVida]

Oh I don't think they're snubbing her. I think she's snubbing them. The Junos would love to have Celine back on the show and in the HoF. But the artist has to accept. I have read (though who knows if reliable sources) that she was invited but didn't take them up on it. Perhaps she feels it's not time yet. Perhaps she's waiting for the ceremony to come to Quebec and is making a point about it. Perhaps it's more than that.

 

I'm saying the Canadian Music HOF is snubbing her.

 

And I think Celine is past the point of attending the Junos if she won't win an award. But perhaps she has other reasons for not going, even if she's invited to perform and is not nominated or won't win.

[scielle]

I'm saying the Canadian Music HOF is snubbing her.

 

Same thing. CARAS runs both and the HoF induction is the centerpiece if each year's Junos ceremony. It's basically a special Juno category.

 

Jann Arden was to be inducted last year, but with the ceremony cancelled due to COVID, she's getting honoured this year instead.

https://junoawards.c...c-hall-of-fame/

 

And I think Celine is past the point of attending the Junos if she won't win an award. But perhaps she has other reasons for not going, even if she's invited to perform and is not nominated or won't win.

 

Well, these things are just marketing, after all, and she has shown little interest in that lately. But after a while it starts looking a little disrespectful to the organization. And unlike something like the AMAs or Billboards, this is more like the Grammys - it's run by an industry organization comprised of her peers (hence the plethora of categories beyond just top 40 pop). Plus CARAS is a non-profit heavily involved in music education and incubation of artists in need of support.

 

Edit: I take that back. Celine Dion has no peers!

Edited March 10, 2021 at 04:43 AM by scielle

[scielle]

Well, this is interesting: https://www.instagram.com/p/CMNysa1lXkq/?igshid=147s377nv0968

(Notable, of course, because Karine performed at Celine & Rene’s wedding.)