"Courage" album - Official Topic

[Xpresso]

And by the way guys, it this actually true that there was a music video shot for Eyes On Me, but becuase it included bulls/rodeo theme it got scrapped, becuase they were afraid of the reaction by animal protectors? Or was that just a bunch of nonsense?

It's very true. Video was shot and then some animal protection groups wanted to lead a Celine music boycott in France (and maybe other countries but I can't remember).

[rfkavanagh]

I'd never heard about that video, but I'm very glad they didn't proceed with it. Disgusting "sport".

[SuperLove4Celine]

I'd never heard about that video, but I'm very glad they didn't proceed with it. Disgusting "sport".

 

This.

[ryba]

1614817594[/url]' post='2399874']

It's very true. Video was shot and then some animal protection groups wanted to lead a Celine music boycott in France (and maybe other countries but I can't remember).

wow, that’s interesting. I wonder how these people knew that she shot a music video and the exact theme of rodeo. Usually nobody ever knows when she works on videos etc. and its all kept as a secret. So there is one more music video that never saw the light of day. Edited March 4, 2021 at 08:39 AM by ryba

[weasley123]

 

 

Celine was filmed with a famous Spanish torero for the TC tour video. I believe that the shots were made for the EOM performance. But it was censored by some puritans... The same old story like the original IWYTNM music video.

 

What’s with IWYTNM music video?

Edited March 4, 2021 at 04:48 PM by weasley123

[SuperLove4Celine]

 

 

What’s with IWYTNM music video?

 

If I recall correctly, the original video was to deal with domestic violence.

[Xpresso]

wow, that’s interesting. I wonder how these people knew that she shot a music video and the exact theme of rodeo. Usually nobody ever knows when she works on videos etc. and its all kept as a secret. So there is one more music video that never saw the light of day.

There was some info circulating about it because the bullfighter (Matias Tejela) was/is someone fairly well known in Spain. He had mentioned that he had spent some time in LA for the video shoot with Celine.

 

Too bad in was never released. I guess they could release it now that Celine is no longer the top artist of the moment; it wouldn't really hurt her career at this point.

[PuraVida]

There was some info circulating about it because the bullfighter (Matias Tejela) was/is someone fairly well known in Spain. He had mentioned that he had spent some time in LA for the video shoot with Celine.

 

Too bad in was never released. I guess they could release it now that Celine is no longer the top artist of the moment; it wouldn't really hurt her career at this point.

 

Uh, it's about the principle. The animal rights groups are still there, as are their supporters. If anything, support and awareness of animal rights have only increased over the last decade plus.

[Xpresso]

Uh, it's about the principle. The animal rights groups are still there, as are their supporters. If anything, support and awareness of animal rights have only increased over the last decade plus.

Sure but if it comes out as an old vintage video, it might not get as much attention as it would have back then. But let's face it, it will never get released.

[Nmj]

There was some info circulating about it because the bullfighter (Matias Tejela) was/is someone fairly well known in Spain. He had mentioned that he had spent some time in LA for the video shoot with Celine.

 

Too bad in was never released. I guess they could release it now that Celine is no longer the top artist of the moment; it wouldn't really hurt her career at this point.

 

I don’t care if they release it or not, but what’s the difference the video was made in 2008 she wasn’t any more the “top artist” then as she is now. Lol

[PuraVida]

Celine’s dream collaboration—Mylene got it first 😅

 

[Xpresso]

I don’t care if they release it or not, but what’s the difference the video was made in 2008 she wasn’t any more the “top artist” then as she is now. Lol

I think it would be a much bigger deal for animal protection groups to jump on a recent video than on a video from 13 or 14 years ago that would be released now.

Oh look, what a scandal... a bullfighter video from 2008! Next! Lol

[Bruno Portugal]

I think it would be a much bigger deal for animal protection groups to jump on a recent video than on a video from 13 or 14 years ago that would be released now.

Oh look, what a scandal... a bullfighter video from 2008! Next! Lol

 

Exactly. The video had Celine and a bullfigter. It was never said that it included a bull or animal cruelty.

 

Tbis for me is art...

 

 

IMO Celine is always censored when she wants to make something different. She was at her best in terms of beauty in 2007. Imagine how beautiful this shots may be, specially considering the other ones we know from the TCWT.

The Lying Down music video also wasn't released after Celine explained the concept of it... Bad decisions in my opinion.

[rfkavanagh]

So people are willing to overlook barbaric treatment of animals because the resulting images might be pretty? Wow.

[Bruno Portugal]

So people are willing to overlook barbaric treatment of animals because the resulting images might be pretty? Wow.

 

I’m not a fan of bullfighting and I am totally against animal mistreatment! But I would have liked to have seen the images filmed for TCWT because like Madonna's video, I believe that Celine's video would be art. And as a fan who has followed Celine Dion's career for almost 30 years, I have to confess that artistic videos are very rare.

And... what does the cape represent in all Eyes On Me performance?

 

We have to avoid fundamentalisms because they are dangerous... What are we going to say next, that Celine should not wear haute couture because it is an outrage to the poor and to destroy all the furs she wears?

 

And I repeat, Celine filmed some scenes with a famous torero not with a bull.

[manu23]

Same barbaric treatment animals get in factory farms. Well no, probably in factory farms animals suffer more in their lives than a fighting bull. Still people enjoy eating meat, eggs, ... with no regrets.

[ryba]

Also, I cannot imagine that Celines video included some bulls fighting for real and animals getting hurt. I suppose that they only wanted to allude to that with this famous Spanish guy, because Eyes on me has this very specific sound that is immediately associated with this cultural specific.

[PuraVida]

Same barbaric treatment animals get in factory farms. Well no, probably in factory farms animals suffer more in their lives than a fighting bull. Still people enjoy eating meat, eggs, ... with no regrets.

 

But do two wrongs make a right? Of course there are levels to suffering, but I would argue that people should not eat animals either.

 

https://www.hsi.org/news-media/bullfighting/

 

While not always the case, it is my understanding at least, that the vast majority of the time bullfighting is fatal for the bull.

[guigafs15]

I'm glad Celine didn't release this video. Although the recording of the video itself shows her lack of sensitivity to the matter at the time, choosing not to release and not perpetuate the normalization of a torture culture shows that, at some point, she reflected on it. I like to think that someone explained to her the problems involving the concept and she refused to release, not because of bad marketing but because she then understood how horrific it is.

 

There's plenty of ways to artistically express yourself without hurting animals. "Art" it's no excuse for it.

Edited March 6, 2021 at 08:12 PM by guigafs15

[Chantemoi]

 

IMO Celine is always censored when she wants to make something different . . .

The Lying Down music video also wasn't released after Celine explained the concept of it... Bad decisions in my opinion.

 

And where were these puritanical decision makers when she released Celinunu? (Mission statement aside, their marketing strategy for that brand is very sombre to the point that it’s unsettling for a childrens’ brand.) I guess she managed to escape their control because the clothing line is her own endeavor, and not music related?

 

It baffles me how they ever end up with “banned” videos — because you’d assume before they even shot them, they’d have to have it approved by Sony (the director, crew, concepts, themes, etc.) and it would have been rejected at that stage, and then forced to come up with alternatives that fit the image of Céline they’re trying to sell.

 

[rfkavanagh]

Lots of different issues at play in the above comments and some being unnecessarily conflated, but it's a complex quagmire. For me, I'm vehemently against factory-farming as well; it's incredibly barbaric and incredibly unhealthy for humans, too. At the same time, while I try to make sure I eat organic/pasture-raised/grass-fed/free-range/hormone-free/etc., I can't deny there's a level of hypocrisy in the fact that I do still eat meat and I'm sure some factory-farmed products make it into my diet regularly enough. If I truly lived my principles, I'd be vegan - but ultimately we all balance our lives and draw lines where we can for whatever reasons motivate us the most.

 

BUT, weak as it may be as an argument, at least there is a link to sustenance and utility where factory-farming is concerned. Where bull-fighting is concerned, it's barbarism for no other reason but "sport" and "entertainment" - though I find anyone who can take pleasure in the mistreatment of animals to be both abhorrent and cruel. Whether an animal was actually harmed in any potential video or not (and I'd assume not) is relatively immaterial; it doesn't change the fact that fetishizing and glamorizing the practice is a form of tacit support and perpetuation. Madonna was wrong when she did it, and Céline would be just as wrong, too.

 

And while we're at it (I mean, I might as well just throw it all out there!), I do wish Céline would move away from haute couture and her support of the fashion industrial complex, which is a whole other problematic mess in its own right. Related to the above issues, she should be ashamed - and shamed - for wearing fur, and while it's easy to feel that Céline playing dress-up is all just fun and games (and I'm just as guilty of enjoying the images on occasion), that kind of gross consumption and commercialism is both crass and insensitive.

 

So there.

[rfkavanagh]

It baffles me how they ever end up with "banned" videos — because you'd assume before they even shot them, they'd have to have it approved by Sony (the director, crew, concepts, themes, etc.) and it would have been rejected at that stage, and then forced to come up with alternatives that fit the image of Céline they're trying to sell.

 

This is a bit odd, to be sure. Nothing gets shot without a director's treatment, budget, potentially a storyboard, shotlist, etc., all outlined and approved before anything is done. Sometimes a director or concept or just the whole thing somehow doesn't come together to people's satisfaction, but it does seem to happen to Céline's videos more often than should be expected.

[Chantemoi]

To be honest, I was ignorant about bullfighting until this comment thread started arguing over it. I had no idea what was considered to be barbaric about it, until I just googled it (never knew about the killing of the bull).

 

It’s a complex issue. But I found reading these pages to be helpful in understanding both sides of the debate:

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-Spanish-still-practice-bullfighting-when-it-so-barbaric

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-Spaniards-still-allow-the-cruel-practice-of-bullfighting-Why-do-they-say-it-is-a-nice-tradition-Cannot-they-see-its-cruel-and-barbarian-Why-are-the-animal-rights-of-Spain-not-doing-anything-about

 

It’s too soon for me to have an informed opinion on the subject, but —like domestic abuse— the theme is either going to resonate with people or offend them. Sony’s approach has been to keep Céline distant from any possibility of controversy—even if she signs up for it. That’s how we end up with mediocre albums/songs/videos : because it’s “safe”. Makes you wonder how « «Ziggy » and “Did You Give Enough Love” slipped past the censors.

 

But none of this explains what happened with the « Encore un soir » video

Edited March 6, 2021 at 09:18 PM by Chantemoi

[weasley123]

Animal abuse is wrong. But since it wasn’t the only Celine’s mv that got canceled, I wonder why this kinda situation keep on hapening? Didn’t they do their research prior to produce the music videos? What about discuss about concept, brainstorming, etc? It’s not like “Hey I have an idea about music video for this song, let’s shoot the video today.”

.

For me, it only shows how unprofessional her team is.

[maki_Dion-er]

I'm glad Celine didn't release this video. Although the recording of the video itself shows her lack of sensitivity to the matter at the time, choosing not to release and not perpetuate the normalization of a torture culture shows that, at some point, she reflected on it. I like to think that someone explained to her the problems involving the concept and she refused to release, not because of bad marketing but because she then understood how horrific it is.

 

There's plenty of ways to artistically express yourself without hurting animals. "Art" it's no excuse for it.

 

It's not even about whether there'd be a bull being hurt or not on screen. There wouldn't be. The issue is that the video would be romantisizing this "sport" that is based on animal cruelty (just like Madonna's, although this one is worse).

 

And using arguments about other cruel "cultures" is inaccurate because that means that you're of the opinion that because there's cruelty everywhere we should turn a blind eye to all cruelty? No.

I wish Celine used her voice to promote non-cruelty fashion brands, or didn't wear fur/leather. Most people also don't approve of animal meat factories, but it's a stretch to compare animal killing for sport vs to feed people. It's like saying hunting endangered species is fine because animal factories exist. Not exactly the same thing even though both are terrible.

 

Also, kind of disproportionate to compare a video that incorporates bullfighting in some form to a commercial intending to promote unisex clothing for children (which hurts no one) in an unorthodox way.

 

 

Celine is usually pretty unaware of these issues imo. If this video is one moment where she was made aware that what she was about to promote was problematic and she and Rene chose to pull back then that's a positive thing. They could have done a different video like they did with I Want You to Need Me.

[PuraVida]

 

And while we're at it (I mean, I might as well just throw it all out there!), I do wish Céline would move away from haute couture and her support of the fashion industrial complex, which is a whole other problematic mess in its own right. Related to the above issues, she should be ashamed - and shamed - for wearing fur, and while it's easy to feel that Céline playing dress-up is all just fun and games (and I'm just as guilty of enjoying the images on occasion), that kind of gross consumption and commercialism is both crass and insensitive.

 

So there.

 

When's the last time Celine wore fur?

[maki_Dion-er]

 

 

When's the last time Celine wore fur?

 

Can't remember the last time she wore fur but she did wear two feathered outfits in 2019. Feathers are acquired by plucking them from a live animal or after they've been killed for their skin. There could be the sale of non-plucked feathers but it's not as "efficient" cause it wouldn't supply the demand in the industry. And it doesn't work in all cases like ostrich feathers (what Celine wore here and what is most popularly used in fashion).

 

https://www.insider.com/celine-dion-daring-wild-outfits-fashion-2019-7?amp

 

https://fashionista.com/2018/05/fashion-feathers-trend-ethical-issues

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 at 03:13 AM by maki_Dion-er

[rfkavanagh]

When's the last time Celine wore fur?

 

I was responding to Bruno Portugal's post in which they mentioned "all the furs she wears" but to be fair, I should have noted that I'm not positive if she does or does not wear fur currently. I hope not.

[couldawouldashoulda]

Well, we know from A New Day... backstage segments that Celine eats animals. What’s the difference between that and wearing them?

[nuts2you]

 

Just found this Video,, what do you guys think