"Courage" album - Official Topic

[Javito]

And what's more; it's totally absurd to think that Céline left the stage on the Millenium concert on January 1st 2000 at her peak (because she went on break at the highest momentum of her career, as both Céline and René were conscious about and right after all the Titanic whirlwind) and that she didn't come back in the Kodak theatre on March 2nd 2002 exactly in the same conditions, just where she left! . It makes no sense to think otherwise: she left 1999 and came back in 2002 to resume her career just where she left it. How could she not be at her peak then, if she went on break during the highest period of her career?

 

The only thing different is that when she came back two years later, two years had passed since that moment, but her success was intact: all the music industry and the public was waiting for her and waiting to listen new music from her, as all the marathonian promotion for her comeback album testified

 

If that wasn't something proper of an artist at her peak, what else is??? LOL

Edited December 31, 2017 at 02:56 AM by Javito

[CelinesDIVO5]

As if figures and sales were the only indicator to measure the success and popularity of an album/singer.

 

It's even more infuriating that just because you're seeing it with the narrowminded perspective of the album performance in the US, Céline's career and success beyond 2002 didn't have the success you experienced in the US in the 90s. But here's someone from Europe that also lived the promotion of her comeback album in 2002 and can confirm that Céline enjoyed a level of popularity and fame across all Europe with ANDHC, that was as great as in 1999 if not more, with all the promotion and all the TV shows and countries she visited for that album.

 

Céline in 2002 was requested and demanded to be literally everywhere throughout Europe, a demand with that album that is not even comparable to what she did with FIY or LTAL (the latter for which she came to promote most and above all, the MHWGO single).

 

With ANDHC she came to promote and do TV shows in countries in Europe where she had never taped a TV show before, including Spain and I think Holland too. That didn't happen with her peak in the 90s as you claim.

 

I reckon Céline did concentrate most of her promotion first and foremost in the US and Canada during the 90s, and fans from the US see her peak as concentrated in the period 1996-1999, but in 2002, they pulled out all the stops within Europe (and I'm glad they did!). North America most part of the promotion-cake for all those years, having Céline on TV 24/7, but that wasn't the case in Europe during those years. We received what we saw she did in America, and ocassionally she came here to perform in certain music awards, live concerts or other shows, but scarcely and only punctually on TV shows. She did more promotion for her French D'eux and SSDA albums on TV in France and French-speaking countries than all what she could do for FIY or LTAL on TV for the rest of Europe.

 

In 2002, every TV show wanted her, or every Sony Music branch was interested to have her promoting in every country, take it as it pleases you most. That also is an indicator that proves she was still at the peak of her career and still enjoying the momentum that MHWGO brought to her career only 4 years before (FOUR years! It's not a decade difference!). Not in vain most TV shows remembered the Titanic success (still going in 1999, three years before) and introducing her with the MHWGO single.

 

There's a world outside how good/regular/bad an album performs in the US charts, and if you perceived her success as mediocre in 2002 in the US (which I highly doubt) believe me it wasn't the case in Europe, and I'm sure there's a good bunch of European fans in this forum who can confirm what I'm saying about her presence and popularity in Europe...

 

And btw I lived very well the era of her peak with LTAL and ATW singles (though I wasn't a fan): according to your profile we're only one year apart. But it only took me some time and research through the years to realise that, while Céline did concentrate most of the promotion for her FIY and LTAL albums in the US, she did likewise with ANDHC for Europe. I can understand if you living in the US cannot realise of how BIG it was the promotion here, bigger than in the US/Canada and actually anywhere else

 

So yep, that said, I can restate that her peak continued intact in 2002 throughout Europe, even reinforced because of the MHWGO shadow and appreciaton from all TV hosts and the public (maybe because we didn't have Céline so much, in some many countries and with the same regularity as the US had her in the 90s - suffice to say that the 2002 promotion had TWO rounds, with her coming back for a second promo tour in autumn of the same year )

 

Celine actually promoted both FIY and LTAL in The Netherlands on Dutch TV shows. Spain was strategized within her promo for ANDHC, my guess would be due to the fact that she recorded a Spanish language song for the album. Otherwise, from the research that I was able to do for that promo tour, it was your run of the mill in Europe. The UK, France, Germany, Italy. I have not disagreed once with the fact that people were happy to see her. Not once, so please re-read my posts. An artist's peak in their career is very much in part to their sales and chart positions. You can still be popular and not at your peak. Peak and popularity don't always go hand in hand. In 2002/2003, Celine's songs were not having the same success as they did at the peak of her career, but she was still popular. In 2017, Celine Dion is still a popular live act. She's still a high demand artist, her music itself is not at the same height of popularity as it was at the peak of her career...neither were her singles from ANDHC.

 

ANDHC single only hit number 1 on 3 charts, worldwide. Same for "I'm Alive." Whereas at the peak of her career... MHWGO went to number 1 in 24 countries. 1997-1999 was the highest point in her career, hands down. All due to her biggest hit. Those years, she was on the radio at every moment of the day, all over the world. The HUGE majority of her awards (worldwide) were won between the years of 1997-1999. These are the years she was most visible. These are the years she was heard the most. That's when the peak of her career was. Her peak did not extend through her break and into her 2002 comeback. She absolutely made some noise in 2002. She had to. She was gone for 2 years. People were interested in whether or not she picked her own tomatoes. Interested to hear what she was going to sing about. Nobody has ever denied that. But to compare her musical success then, to what it was prior...well, they were very different times for her. Like I said, popularity and peak of one's career do not always go hand in hand. When you're an artist with the talent that Celine has, and the ability to connect with the public like Celine can, people will remain generally interested in that type of artist. They'll rave about her high profile performances, tune in to interviews she gives here and there. But, by 2002 she'd had her breakthrough, she'd hit the top to the point that there was no more room to move up. She'd made it, and 2002 marked a new chapter in her career.

[Javito]

Oh dear. And again with charts, again the same inconclusive story!

 

So what? And ANDHC the album got to #1 on 19+ charts, whereas LTAL album got to #1 in 23 charts, that's only 4 more charts lol So?

 

And besides MHWGO, other singles taken from the album like Tell Him only got to #1 in three countries, and Immortality only in ONE country, same as The Reason! Hey hey, ANDHC single ties here with Tell Him and WINS over Immortaliyy and The Reason!!! That's TWO singles from LTAL that lose against one single from ANDHC!! So?? LOL Does that mean all these singles are not equally popular songs from her in everyone's minds? Well let me tell you that at least in Europe, way more people -particularly in their 30s today- remember ANDHC (single) and I'm Alive way before Immortality! And not to mention The Reason!!!

 

How can you compare ANDHC single with MHWGO success? Do you compare subsequent singles from LTAL like The Reason or Treat Her Like A Lady to Titanic's success, can't you see that's totally pointless because simply they're totatlly uncomparable???

 

How can you compare an album which had 7 commercial singles taken off with an album that only had 3? How can you even compare the singles' market in 1997 with 2002??? And ANY other Céline Dion single in her discography is going to lose if we compare it to MHWGO LOL!!! Starting with the fellow singles taken from that same album as I showed.

 

And on a side note, ANDHC album is the ONLY studio album (besides the Christmas album) that Sony Music decided to rerelease in a Collector's Edition, before FIY and LTAL (which still remain unreleased today). If that support from the record label to pick THIS album before either FIY or LTAL doesn't tell you something, I'm sorry but it cannot speak louder and clearer about her popularity back then (or the likelihood of that album to please a broader audience rather than with FIY or LTAL). That decision speaks volumes about many things, why Sony took this album before any other and bigger "bestselling" albums.

 

Phhhhlease, enough with the charts discussion, it's getting ridiculous to discuss Céline's peack or how long it lasted. The better or worse performance of a single doesn't mean that overall the album behind wasn't greatly successful. As it happened with ANDHC. I'm sorry that you cannot see the wood for the trees with figures and charts, but there's nothing more I can do here

Edited December 31, 2017 at 07:37 AM by Javito

[RosieBarron]

Like, it just annoys me that someone would even say that the early 2000's were a continuation of her peak, when the evidence is there in numbers, on YouTube, internet archives. It's okay to be disappointed that you missed such an era, but to blatantly make shít up to suit you so that you can sound correct in your own mind is downright infuriating.

 

I can't even read what is being written anymore it's so badly wrong. I see why you are getting irritated though.

[Lexi]

Shall we go back on topic? Every time I think ai read something about the new album, but the discussion is now 3 pages long about something else. Open up a new thread to continue this discussion, and leave this one for news on the upcoming English album.

[manu23]

Lord have mercy... Is anybody here denying ANDHC success? It was one of the top sellers of the year and she promoted her come back a lot. The biggest start from the 90s was releasing a new album, of course there was interest but 2002 and 2003 were not part of the peak in her career, period. Nobody was bigger than Celine Dion in the music industry between 1996 and 1999, and when I say nobody I mean NOBODY. She was selling more records than anybody, she was getting more awards than anybody, she was in every award show in every tv program, she had two consecutive albums selling more than 30M! MHWGO became the most played song in radios ever. In Spain you could probably change station after MHWGO was played and another station was already playing it again, and then another (talking about Spain, LTAL sold 470K without Celine even putting a step in the country whereas ANDHC sold 130K). In 2002 Celine didn't dominate, she was still a force for sure (in fact she is the second best selling female artist in the 00s after Britney Spears, mainly thanks to the sales of All the Way) but there were artists bigger than her in 2002, Eminem, Shakira, Norah Jones to name a few. But that was just natural, it was not due to her break or because her residency, artists have their peaks and then someone new comes that draws more attention it happened to Michael Jackson, Madonna, Whitney, Mariah, Britney (none of them had a residency in Vegas), it has already happened to Katy Perry and Taylor Swift and it will happen to Adele too. But Celine, as Beyonce or Madonna, are a few that have known how to handle their careers in a way to remain relevant, they may not dominate the charts as before but their status is above all that now.

[Xpresso]

Is 2017 over yet? If not, wake me up in 2018 (for the Oscars at the latest)...

[Bruno Portugal]

2018 will certainly be the year of CELINE DION!!!

[CelinesDIVO5]

Oh dear. And again with charts, again the same inconclusive story!

 

So what? And ANDHC the album got to #1 on 19+ charts, whereas LTAL album got to #1 in 23 charts, that's only 4 more charts lol So?

 

And besides MHWGO, other singles taken from the album like Tell Him only got to #1 in three countries, and Immortality only in ONE country, same as The Reason! Hey hey, ANDHC single ties here with Tell Him and WINS over Immortaliyy and The Reason!!! That's TWO singles from LTAL that lose against one single from ANDHC!! So?? LOL Does that mean all these singles are not equally popular songs from her in everyone's minds? Well let me tell you that at least in Europe, way more people -particularly in their 30s today- remember ANDHC (single) and I'm Alive way before Immortality! And not to mention The Reason!!!

 

How can you compare ANDHC single with MHWGO success? Do you compare subsequent singles from LTAL like The Reason or Treat Her Like A Lady to Titanic's success, can't you see that's totally pointless because simply they're totatlly uncomparable???

 

How can you compare an album which had 7 commercial singles taken off with an album that only had 3? How can you even compare the singles' market in 1997 with 2002??? And ANY other Céline Dion single in her discography is going to lose if we compare it to MHWGO LOL!!! Starting with the fellow singles taken from that same album as I showed.

 

And on a side note, ANDHC album is the ONLY studio album (besides the Christmas album) that Sony Music decided to rerelease in a Collector's Edition, before FIY and LTAL (which still remain unreleased today). If that support from the record label to pick THIS album before either FIY or LTAL doesn't tell you something, I'm sorry but it cannot speak louder and clearer about her popularity back then (or the likelihood of that album to please a broader audience rather than with FIY or LTAL). That decision speaks volumes about many things, why Sony took this album before any other and bigger "bestselling" albums.

 

Phhhhlease, enough with the charts discussion, it's getting ridiculous to discuss Céline's peack or how long it lasted. The better or worse performance of a single doesn't mean that overall the album behind wasn't greatly successful. As it happened with ANDHC. I'm sorry that you cannot see the wood for the trees with figures and charts, but there's nothing more I can do here

 

 

This entire post just proved my point. I really do thank you for that. In your quest to prove me wrong, you only proved yourself incorrect. 7 commercial singles from one album...because it was her peak. FIY, and LTAL didn't need collectors editions. They were flying off the shelves!! ANDHC collector's edition...an attempt at selling more of that one album, because they know that even people who bought the album upon release (myself included) would buy it again. It was a ploy at a time that music was not selling, to try and sell more. (Also to show a preview of AND in Vegas...which I'm sure is your favorite part.) It has absolutely nothing to do with how popular the album was. SONY could have been absolutely satisfied with how much ANDHC sold in 2002, being that it had one of the most successful opening weeks that year...but they weren't the Celine sized numbers that they were expecting. So, I again...I thank you for your own contradiction. Happy New Year!!!

Edited December 31, 2017 at 04:06 PM by CelinesDIVO5

[CelinesDIVO5]

Lord have mercy... Is anybody here denying ANDHC success? It was one of the top sellers of the year and she promoted her come back a lot. The biggest start from the 90s was releasing a new album, of course there was interest but 2002 and 2003 were not part of the peak in her career, period. Nobody was bigger than Celine Dion in the music industry between 1996 and 1999, and when I say nobody I mean NOBODY. She was selling more records than anybody, she was getting more awards than anybody, she was in every award show in every tv program, she had two consecutive albums selling more than 30M! MHWGO became the most played song in radios ever. In Spain you could probably change station after MHWGO was played and another station was already playing it again, and then another (talking about Spain, LTAL sold 470K without Celine even putting a step in the country whereas ANDHC sold 130K). In 2002 Celine didn't dominate, she was still a force for sure (in fact she is the second best selling female artist in the 00s after Britney Spears, mainly thanks to the sales of All the Way) but there were artists bigger than her in 2002, Eminem, Shakira, Norah Jones to name a few. But that was just natural, it was not due to her break or because her residency, artists have their peaks and then someone new comes that draws more attention it happened to Michael Jackson, Madonna, Whitney, Mariah, Britney (none of them had a residency in Vegas), it has already happened to Katy Perry and Taylor Swift and it will happen to Adele too. But Celine, as Beyonce or Madonna, are a few that have known how to handle their careers in a way to remain relevant, they may not dominate the charts as before but their status is above all that now.

 

Thank you.

[Javito]

This entire post just proved my point. I really do thank you for that. In your quest to prove me wrong, you only proved yourself incorrect. 7 commercial singles from one album...because it was her peak. FIY, and LTAL didn't need collectors editions. They were flying off the shelves!! ANDHC collector's edition...an attempt at selling more of that one album, because they know that even people who bought the album upon release (myself included) would buy it again. It was a ploy at a time that music was not selling, to try and sell more. (Also to show a preview of AND in Vegas...which I'm sure is your favorite part.) It has absolutely nothing to do with how popular the album was. SONY could have been absolutely satisfied with how much ANDHC sold in 2002, being that it had one of the most successful opening weeks that year...but they weren't the Celine sized numbers that they were expecting. So, I again...I thank you for your own contradiction. Happy New Year!!!

 

Haha let's see how many times you were wrong in one post:

 

1) "7 commercial singles from one album...because it was her peak" Wrooong!!! Not because it was at her peak, but because it was a totally different era where record labels pulled out lots of singles from an album! 2002 had little to do with the singles' market that FIY and LTAL saw in the 90s, and also 2002 was released in the middle of an era where piracy was striking hard and strong, a concept that was totally inexistent in 1996 and 1997. So that's why you have 7 commercial singles in 1998 instead of 3 in 2002!

 

2) "FIY, and LTAL didn't need collectors editions. They were flying off the shelves!! ANDHC collector's edition...an attempt at selling more of that one album, because they know that even people who bought the album upon release (myself included) would buy it again. It was a ploy at a time that music was not selling, to try and sell more".

 

Wrooong!!! ANDHC collector's edition was released in 2008, not in 2002. You're mistaking the Collector's Edition released by Sony Legacy in January 2008 with the Special Limited Edition released in autumn 2002. It has this cover, and is way better than the rerelease of 2002.

 

And it's not any twisted Machiavellian ploy from Sony with Céline in 2002, it's a common practice that continues today with all major artists having standard and then deluxe/special/collector's editions released of their albums. Yes, its final purpose is to sell more copies of the album, and happily, thanks to those editions loaded with extra material (not in the case of Céline, unfortunately ) record labels are recovering from the long and tough years of piracy and poor sales because these editions are selling very good and are appreciated by the public of each artist.

 

 

And btw, both FIY and LTAL actually had limited editions released on their own, in Asia, with a bonus disc each (I never understood why they didn't release them in the US and Europe).

 

The more you say that music was not selling in 2002, the more credit and merit deserves ANDHC for having sold 13 million copies in a time where piracy was doing its own thing. Thank you

 

3) "(Also to show a preview of AND in Vegas...which I'm sure is your favorite part.)" Wrrrooong again!!! That Vegas preview was only included in the 2002 Special Limited Edition. Fortunately, the 2008 Collector's Edition I was talking about remained free from that virus and has anything to do with Vegas (not even the Vegas announcement in the credits page is present now).

 

There are your blunders. Three in a single post. Thank you But above all, happy new year for you too, and everyone else!!! :flowers:

Edited December 31, 2017 at 04:48 PM by Javito

[celine4evauk]

Please move your convo to the ANDHC topic for example. I keep getting my hopes dashed on this one when I see how it’s grown, but alas, it’s nothing to do with the next album. I don’t object to any of this, everyone can write what they like (within reason obviously), but keep things (as much as possible) within the correct topic. 😢

 

Realllllly want some new news now 😬

[Javito]

You don't expect breaking news from the album on New Year's Eve, do you??? :sofunny: Sometimes I have to love this place, really

[celine4evauk]

You don't expect breaking news from the album on New Year's Eve, do you??? :sofunny: Sometimes I have to love this place, really

 

Er excuse me but your argument has been going on before today. I wasn’t just talking about today ffs. Think everyone knows how you hate Vegas and love ANDHC by now.

As for any announcement, it’ll come while she’s back on stage in VEGAS - yes that’s now!

 

And sorry, but I hate this forum at times.

[Javito]

:mdr:

 

Peace!

[RosieBarron]

Er excuse me but your argument has been going on before today. I wasn't just talking about today ffs. Think everyone knows how you hate Vegas and love ANDHC by now.

As for any announcement, it'll come while she's back on stage in VEGAS - yes that's now!

 

And sorry, but I hate this forum at times.

 

It is apparent that some people have had too much time on their hands over the Christmas period... whilst you've been out enjoying yourself, they've been posting here throughout the day.

[Dancing_Queen]

 

And sorry, but I hate this forum at times.

 

This board is a wonderful place, but sometimes you just have to skip a post...😊

Some people may choose to make the same point over and over (because they feel very passionate about it), but that doesn't mean I have to read it over and over 😊

 

 

[celine4evauk]

 

 

This board is a wonderful place, but sometimes you just have to skip a post...😊

Some people may choose to make the same point over and over (because they feel very passionate about it), but that doesn't mean I have to read it over and over 😊

 

Haha very true! Maybe this can be my new year’s resolution 🤣🤣👍

[Javito]

It is apparent that some people have had too much time on their hands over the Christmas period... whilst you've been out enjoying yourself, they've been posting here throughout the day.

 

And I suppose you're singing Christmas carols on the streets while reading the forum all day, right?

[RosieBarron]

And I suppose you're singing Christmas carols on the streets while reading the forum all day, right?

 

I am flattered that you think I can multitask like that... but no sadly not.

[manu23]

Sorry for being off topic again but ANDHC has not sold 13M, 10.5M is already a very optimistic number (outstanding nevertheless, although also true that the industry was expecting more). Same year despite piracy, Norah Jones' Come Away With Me manged to sell +25M, Eminem +20M, Avril Lavigne 17M, Linking Park's 2003 Meteora sold +27M...

 

This is what Rolling Stone wrote in 1998, even they had to kneel before the Queen

 

As 1998 winds to a close, don't look for middle-of-the-road pop diva Celine Dion to garner any Artist of the Year honors from music critics. But if record stores were handing out statues for outstanding sales performance, Dion would sweep them all.

 

...

 

Taken as a whole, according to SoundScan, Dion has sold more than twenty million albums in America in just one year's time. And that figure is a precise one reflecting the actual number of albums purchased, not the number of albums shipped out to stores, which is how more liberal platinum certifications are determined.

 

True, that total is spread over several records, but the idea that a single artist could be responsible for selling more than twenty million albums in one year was once unthinkable. Even Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill and Hootie and the Blowfish's Cracked Rear View, two of the best-selling albums of the Nineties (selling 13.2 million and 9.7 million copies, respectively), took nearly two years to accumulate those huge tallies. As Billboard chart chief Geoff Mayfield puts it, "If you could buy stock in an artist, I'd buy stock in Celine Dion."

 

...

 

Executives at 550 insist that despite Dion's recent saturation coverage, the singer's in no danger of being over-exposed. Nonetheless, label executive vice president and GM John Doelp reports, "she's definitely slowing down next year."

 

Maybe that'll a give everybody else a chance to sell a few more records.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/celine-dions-sales-will-go-on-and-on-and-on-19981222

[RosieBarron]

Sorry for being off topic again but ANDHC has not sold 13M, 10.5M is already a very optimistic number (outstanding nevertheless, although also true that the industry was expecting more). Same year despite piracy, Norah Jones' Come Away With Me manged to sell +25M, Eminem +20M, Avril Lavigne 17M, Linking Park's 2003 Meteora sold +27M...

 

This is what Rolling Stone wrote in 1998, even they had to kneel before the Queen

 

 

 

https://www.rollings...and-on-19981222

 

Wasn't the statistic something like she sold an album every 1.2 seconds in 1998?

[manu23]

Wasn't the statistic something like she sold an album every 1.2 seconds in 1998?

 

I'm not sure, but I have also heard that, at least in America. As I said, the level of success Celine had 1996-99 was unprecedented, not even Michael Jackson or Madonna reached those numbers. But for me what is even more outstanding is her longevity, 20 years after her peak she is still around as one of the stronger names in the industry.

[Katie]

I'm not sure, but I have also heard that, at least in America. As I said, the level of success Celine had 1996-99 was unprecedented, not even Michael Jackson or Madonna reached those numbers. But for me what is even more outstanding is her longevity, 20 years after her peak she is still around as one of the stronger names in the industry.

 

Between March 1996 and September 1998; she's sold 60 Million albums (Just saying about abums of her own, excluding collaborations, appearences and singles) in 30 months, none other artist or group has ever done such a record.

 

Between the launch of The colour of my love and The collector's series volume 1, she is about an average of 1 CD sold (albums+ singles of her own excluding appearences on other artist's albums or soundtracks) each second in the world

[Bruno Portugal]

And between 1995 and the end of 1999 Celine sold around 90 million albums worldwide. She was the #1 artist in the world both in English and French.

Celine ruled the world and many are wayting for a "comeback" English album. An album that will remind us all those glorious days.

Well... we are already in 2018. Happy Celine Dion Year!!!

[Del]

We can now officially say the album is coming out this year!

[nowanorris]

We can now officially say the album is coming out this year!

 

My first thought this morning when I woke up too!

[MrTim212]

We can now officially say the album is coming out this year!

 

Was just about to post the same thing!

[Xpresso]

Another Year (of waiting) Has Gone By...

[melquilisboa]

Hey celiniacs, i don't know If yall realized how desperate i am to see Céline getting a hit after decades, it's because another smash hit would give her the hype enough to make her album sell 1m in pure, and with good streaming numbers it could be multiplatinum, and then Céline would be THE ONLY female artist to have a multiplatinum album in the 90s, 2000s & 2010s....that's ALL I want Edited January 2, 2018 at 08:38 AM by melquilisboa