Random news, thoughts and common questions about Celine (closed)

[ryba]

Or they could just, ya know, be song lyrics.

 

I don't actually believe Celine drove all night to creep into someone's room you know.

lol

[PuraVida]

You will repeatedly see in these discussions phrases like "we can't know", "we don't have all the facts", etc. And then we have pointing to this or that (sometimes unnamed) biography of Celine and of Rene with allegedly telling revelations. How many of these biographies are reliable, authorised, in agreement with each other, etc.?

 

Of course, circumstantial evidence is a thing -- but let's wait until we see a credible compilation of all the biographies, all the interviews, etc. from Celine, Rene, and those who were around them throughout their lives. For instance, even going through song lyrics is ridiculous -- we need to examine what Eddy Marnay and those around him actually said. And whatever it is, those things would need to be taken into consideration in a broader context along with other evidence.

 

It's very understandable and laudable to be skeptical/critical of their relationship, that seems normal and well-intentioned. But the allegation of grooming (especially the grooming of Celine as a minor) is something so heinous that it really deserves a strong burden of proof. And it gets tossed around all the time in all corners of the internet in an open-and-shut case kind of way.

 

And, as I said before, one can find their relationship weird, icky, unhealthy, controlling, co-dependent, etc. for whatever reason, but that is not the same thing as "Rene Angelil groomed Celine Dion." The two can be mutually exclusive.

[Chantemoi]

You will repeatedly see in these discussions phrases like "we can't know", "we don't have all the facts", etc. And then we have pointing to this or that (sometimes unnamed) biography of Celine and of Rene with allegedly telling revelations. How many of these biographies are reliable, authorised, in agreement with each other, etc.?

 

Of course, circumstantial evidence is a thing -- but let's wait until we see a credible compilation of all the biographies, all the interviews, etc. from Celine, Rene, and those who were around them throughout their lives. For instance, even going through song lyrics is ridiculous -- we need to examine what Eddy Marnay and those around him actually said. And whatever it is, those things would need to be taken into consideration in a broader context along with other evidence.

 

It's very understandable and laudable to be skeptical/critical of their relationship, that seems normal and well-intentioned. But the allegation of grooming (especially the grooming of Celine as a minor) is something so heinous that it really deserves a strong burden of proof. And it gets tossed around all the time in all corners of the internet in an open-and-shut case kind of way.

 

And, as I said before, one can find their relationship weird, icky, unhealthy, controlling, co-dependent, etc. for whatever reason, but that is not the same thing as "Rene Angelil groomed Celine Dion." The two can be mutually exclusive.

 

What about Lolita though? There’s not much to read into there….

Edited July 9, 2023 at 06:48 AM by Chantemoi

[Chantemoi]

I’ve been waiting to talk about this. I love Rene… I did and I still do. I think he was an amazing manager and husband, taking fully into account Celine’s interpretation as I grew up.

 

As time has moved on, it is now unacceptable for a man of Renes age to be with a teen in the public eye. It does happen but more and more there is controversy surrounding such relationships.

 

Here in the U.K. a famous presenter (Phillip Schofield) has just lost everything for being with a younger male in their teens and actually didn’t break any law (as we know of). The news was focussed on this as a main story for weeks. Celine has been brought up in the U.K. conversation too as a comparison and it really made me think more about it too. Maybe this is why people are starting to have this conversation now?

 

We know even at the time the public found it odd and there was speculation. ‘Everybody’s talking my baby down’ comes to mind.

 

As a fan of Celine i see how much Rene did for Celine and how they were the perfect team. I also remember as a child thinking Rene was really old as her husband but overtime I just went with it for what it was. Celine was very happy and so was I. When I became a hardcore fan, Celine was already talking about babies and having a family, so in many ways her relationship with Rene was a given without much more thought.

 

I was devastated when Rene died as I knew how much he meant to Celine and I loved his interviews and full passion for her career. I still miss Rene a lot actually and ask myself what he would think of her latest project after each release. He was the bones of her very successful career. I truly believe it was love and there was nothing underhand. They grew together through their successful accomplishments and common aim. I certainly don’t think Rene took the opportunity to work with Celine to groom her. Weirdly though, his role was to groom her into a pop superstar….

 

I can understand why the subject is discussed and don’t think fans should be scared to approach it. It certainly would not be accepted in todays age and I think we can all agree on this.

 

Celine and Rene stood the test of time and created a fairy tale all of their own. This can’t be a bad thing can it? However, the conflict is still in my mind.

 

Kev x

 

Well said, Kevin. We can question these notions and still love Céline and René for whatever they were. I watched the livestream of René‘s funeral, and as cringe as it was when they played her songs throughout, I still bawled my eyes out because they did have something special. But you’re right - while their relationship stood the test of time, the same situation nowadays would simply not. She would have been forced to choose between her career or her love.

[Zofia]

It would undoubtedly be dishonest to pass firm moral judgement on behavior of which we know only the public side, for moral judgements should not be based on supposition. On the other hand, it would be naive to mistake this same public side - the carefully crafted image, the consciously worked reputation - for reality in all its complexity. Children confuse fairy tales with reality; adults, in most cases, begin to distinguish between them: "understanding" means coping with the incessant to-and-fro of “being” and “appearing”, and it means accepting that language not only conveys truths, but also serves to conceal or disfigure them. And this is due to the nature of things, not necessarily to anyone's malice.

 

Yet it's quite possible that love (also in the form of fan love? why not) brings us back, in a way, to childhood: to the need for the world to be clearer and less equivocal than it is. I say this without the slightest trace of irony, in respect for genuine affects.

 

I don't know about "did he really groom her or not", because I don't have access to their "really". Admittedly, their love story always left me a little ambivalent - and that's normal, it's not the same films that make everyone cry. But what really bothered me was the sort of rhetoric employed in the "official version" of their story. Of course, the context of the '80s was quite different from ours; the Lolita myth, so well detected by Chantemoi in song lyrics, at the time made people smile rather than indignant. But today, our knowledge of the real impact of sexual abuse on minors has changed people's sensibilities.

 

A local example: a few years ago, when the sexual abuse scandal was about to erupt, a Polish bishop publicly declared that it was the minors who were responsible: they seek tenderness, they cling to the clergymen, and “not only lose themselves, but also drag adults along with them”. Today it's a particularly hideous example of making the victim responsible for the abuse. Yesterday, it was yet another example - perhaps more insolent than others - of the mentality that a child (especially a girl) can seduce an innocent adult who "lets herself be led along".

 

That's why, although I can psychologically understand Céline declaring at every opportunity that "it was I who seduced him" to protect him from suspicion, the shadow of Lolita that hangs over their story bothers me. For we know today that such rhetoric covered up an entire system of crime.

 

Of course, it's not Céline's fault, and it's probably not René's. To protect our lover from evil, we use language that justifies evil in spite of ourselves. Again, isn't it love that can make us biased, blind and even unjust? It's hard to love with our eyes open.

 

(For me, this is essential as far as the alleged sexual aspect of this story is concerned. As for the other aspects - dependence, isolation, control - they deserve attention and are part of grooming, if grooming there is, but can also be treated separately.)

[Állex Sodi]

But the allegation of grooming (especially the grooming of Celine as a minor) is something so heinous that it really deserves a strong burden of proof.

 

He met a 12yo girl when he was almost 40yo and later married her. That is all the proof necessary to understand this relationship. Again, it’s unbelievable the normalization of this.

 

What we can’t do for lack of proof it’s call Rene a child molester, as we actually don’t know if this relationship got sexual before her adulthood. But grooming? The information we have is enough to qualify as such. You met a little girl, take responsibilities for her life, control every aspect of it, and then later you marry her.

That’s grooming!

[Matt96]

Apparently Céline is now in Québéc, in Brébeuf, in the same farm in which she stayed during Covid.

 

https://www.gala.fr/l_actu/news_de_stars/celine-dion-de-retour-au-canada-cette-maison-quelle-a-choisie-pour-sa-convalescence_524732

[No1IrishFan]

Apparently Céline is now in Québéc, in Brébeuf, in the same farm in which she stayed during Covid.

 

https://www.gala.fr/l_actu/news_de_stars/celine-dion-de-retour-au-canada-cette-maison-quelle-a-choisie-pour-sa-convalescence_524732

 

If it’s true I wonder what it means for her treatment and general health. Could mean she’s finished a round of treatment and been advised to rest and relax so she picked a place she loves.

 

I would love to know how she is doing.

[RosieBarron]

 

 

If it’s true I wonder what it means for her treatment and general health. Could mean she’s finished a round of treatment and been advised to rest and relax so she picked a place she loves.

 

I would love to know how she is doing.

 

Well she often goes to Quebec for the summer especially with no work commitments in Vegas so all seems pretty normal. Could be that she has finished some treatment and has been free and well enough to travel home.

[Zofia]

If it's true I wonder what it means for her treatment and general health. Could mean she's finished a round of treatment and been advised to rest and relax so she picked a place she loves.

 

I would love to know how she is doing.

 

SPS is a chronic disease, which implies ongoing symptomatic treatment. But in most cases, apart from major crises, medication (usually combinations of benzodiazepines, Baclofen, Rituximab and others) is taken at home. With a private medical team, it can be the same even for immunoglobulin infusions (IVIG).

[PuraVida]

It would undoubtedly be dishonest to pass firm moral judgement on behavior of which we know only the public side, for moral judgements should not be based on supposition.

 

I don't know about "did he really groom her or not", because I don't have access to their "really".

 

This is broadly where I stand on the issue, and for now won't comment further on the subject.

[george_matei]

Speaking of the fac that Celine was groomed look how many likes this video have. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJ4Seh9Y/

 

On the other hand, I've always hated that Celine didn't have a man of her age by her side. Rene was so creepy for me.

[CelinesDIVO5]

My thing with the “Rene grooming Celine” allegations though, is that pedophiles don’t just stop doing what they do because they “fall in love” with the adult version of the child they were abusing. Usually, they go off and look for someone else once their victim has reached a certain age and level of maturity. If Rene honestly did any of the things that he’s being accused of here…then I believe there would be others who were subjected to what he’s being accused of here.

[Zofia]

Claudette Dion in the JdM denies the rumors: Céline won't be spending the summer in Quebec. She also hopes that the media will stop spreading this false news, which only gives false hope to the Dion family. "It's dead in the water, but we love her enough to understand and leave her alone. That's true love”. Linda Dion tells her that Céline "works damn hard. She listens as much as she can to the leading researchers on this rare disease /…/ We can't find a cure, but I think it's important to give hope.”

 

Source: https://www.journaldequebec.com/2023/07/10/celine-dion-ne-sera-pas-au-quebec-cet-ete-assure-sa-soeur-claudette

[jpatdeleon09]

“By some gossip sites”….

[Celinefan2019]

“By some gossip sites”….

all of these gossip sites need to stop spreading false news. The only reliable sources for Celine Dion news is her official website, social media pages and local news channels.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[incognito]

Maybe if she didn’t blab her mouth left and right Claudette would have more contact with her youngest sister and not just second hand word from Linda.

[chocolatechip15]

This thread has SO much misinformation.

 

Where, exactly, is there evidence that Rene discouraged Celine from dating as a young teen??? The only thing I've ever seen is that, in her bio, she says she asked Rene to set up a date for her, and he declined. Are we seriously blaming him for that?? It would be absurd for a music manager to set up a date for his teen singer. *That* would be crazy.

 

And saying he controlled every aspect of her life? Controlled it while her mother was with her everywhere until she was 18? Controlled every aspect of her life while she was living with her parents and many brothers and sisters? That just really doesn't make any sense. Did he control much of her career when she was young? Sure. Did he control every aspect of her life? Not even close.

 

And how is the song Lolita proof of grooming? First of all, she sang it when she was 19 - hardly a child. Second of all, the song is from Celine's point of view, not Rene's, and it completely supports the story they always told - that Celine was the pursuer, Celine wanted him, and he tried to push her away for a long time.

 

They were married for 20+ years, together for nearly 30 years before she died. There was SO much spontaneous and genuine respect and affection that you could see in so many interactions they had with each other over the years - there's just no way that could be faked. And all these accusations of grooming come from people who didn't know them at all. Anyone who actually knew them as a couple saw them as a genuine, loving couple.

Edited July 11, 2023 at 02:34 AM by chocolatechip15

[CourageProject]

Céline Dion being on Threads App is just as useless as her account being on any social media. When they don't post much, why join more social apps? They clearly showed us they don't want an interactive account of Céline.

[DionFanAlways]

Céline Dion being on Threads App is just as useless as her account being on any social media. When they don't post much, why join more social apps? They clearly showed us they don't want an interactive account of Céline.

This is how I feel about it also.

[maki_Dion-er]

New social media account? They're just doing anything to justify getting a paycheck lol

 

She's got 3 (4 if we count Youtube as sm) and barely used any even when she was active.

[Zofia]

Yet it's so much easier to create an account than to fill it with quality content Without a rejuvenated and visionary team, this will never change. It sometimes seems to me that one of the main causes of her current position of weakness - incompatible with her legend - is biology in all its cruelty; her contemporaries who continue to succeed surely have younger, more dynamic teams. René was a visionary at the time (whether you like his vision or not), but Savage and Platel, sound engineers, never were. Alas (fashion aside?), Céline was used to working with people older than her from the start; over time, this became more and more of a problem. And now, she has more to worry about than her social media management. Hard to be optimistic on that score.

[PuraVida]

Yet it's so much easier to create an account than to fill it with quality content Without a rejuvenated and visionary team, this will never change. It sometimes seems to me that one of the main causes of her current position of weakness - incompatible with her legend - is biology in all its cruelty; her contemporaries who continue to succeed surely have younger, more dynamic teams. René was a visionary at the time (whether you like his vision or not), but Savage and Platel, sound engineers, never were. Alas (fashion aside?), Céline was used to working with people older than her from the start; over time, this became more and more of a problem. And now, she has more to worry about than her social media management. Hard to be optimistic on that score.

 

Yes, her team has been so behind the times. It's really quite extraordinary, esp. considering she was so innovative at some points i.e. with the idea to start the modern residency phenomenon in Vegas. However, that was originally Celine's idea wasn't it?

 

Beyonce is in her 40s now, so I think it's very interesting to compare her and her team with Celine's 15 years ago or so.

[Zofia]

Yes, her team has been so behind the times. It's really quite extraordinary, esp. considering she was so innovative at some points i.e. with the idea to start the modern residency phenomenon in Vegas. However, that was originally Celine's idea wasn't it?

 

Beyonce is in her 40s now, so I think it's very interesting to compare her and her team with Celine's 15 years ago or so.

 

It always seemed to me that two somewhat fortuitous factors played a part in the "brilliant strategy" that brought her to Vegas: on René's side, an addiction to gambling, and on Céline's side, the need to be with her son every night

 

What she excels at most is performance. Obviously, this doesn't make things any easier for her team (although an appropriate media strategy could have been implemented by a more diligent team). And it proves just how cruelly this disease has struck her - not just as a singer, but as a performer...

[CourageProject]

I love Céline, but there are many ways she can lead a better social media accounts. Firstly, they don't need to sign off as TC. It always remains a weird factor to me.

Secondly, you could basically post anything, your old pics,new pics, old songs, anything. That's what social media is for. Not for some dumb quiz and a new post every time there's a postponement or cancellation

[PuraVida]

It always seemed to me that two somewhat fortuitous factors played a part in the "brilliant strategy" that brought her to Vegas: on René's side, an addiction to gambling, and on Céline's side, the need to be with her son every night

 

What she excels at most is performance. Obviously, this doesn't make things any easier for her team (although an appropriate media strategy could have been implemented by a more diligent team). And it proves just how cruelly this disease has struck her - not just as a singer, but as a performer...

 

It's funny how she ended up in the worst place on Earth for her voice. I always found it so cool (and am very thankful) that she installed her own humidity atmosphere in her home and at the The Colosseum.

 

But yeah, there's a tradeoff....Celine hires old hats for years, sometimes decades, whom she trusts, presumably many from Quebec. But working with the same people continuously, who themselves are sourced from smaller networks, often means lack of innovative, fresh ideas.

 

The social media team for the Love Again movie has run circles around Team Celine. But it's not even something that requires brilliant minds, it can very simple and low tech. Like those photos of her hikes during the pandemic. Another example, her fans, and the internet, would eat up any video of Celine singing her vocal warm-ups ... think how easy it is for her team to grab an iPhone and record that.

 

But Celine likes to keep up her privacy, and on top of that apparently her team are boneheaded.

[CourageProject]

https://youtu.be/-k_s5yH7v8c

 

https://youtu.be/a08ADGqCkKs

Edited July 12, 2023 at 12:48 PM by CourageProject

[Davey84]

Oof!! They are both very messy. I guess Cher's voice is too low for the pitches of IDAN and TTWII.

[reynolds]

Am I right in thinking Celine will be on Jimmy Kimmel on Friday night. Her name is down as musical act also.

[incognito]

Am I right in thinking Celine will be on Jimmy Kimmel on Friday night. Her name is down as musical act also.

 

It is a rerun. The late night shows are all repeats due to the writers strike.