"Courage" album - Official Topic

[Céline RO]

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Now that’s not a very nice accomplishment for Céline. I didn’t care too much about the record plummet on the charts for Courage last year (I actually found that pretty funny) but this one isn’t funny, it’s just a bit sad.

[garyhollander]

It is undeniable that when people come in studio with her , they just won't tell her the truth , otherwise we wouldn't be stuck with phrase like 'Until Now' at the end of heart of glass where you can clearly hear she imitates sia with a very sad and disapointing result, go back to your roots Celine ... perfection is the reason why she made it this far.. and when I hear her intentionnaly butcher what made her a legend as a contemporay vocalist, I can't help but think how I wish someone would tell her , please don't do that , you are Celine , not some wannabe trendy singer . And there are countless examples where you can clearly hear her getting loose on the delivery just for the sake of style and 'modern aspect' but it always feels fake, uncool and reductive to try to mimick other singers when she built her reputation on being a flawless singer

 

I think you have to face reality about the human voice, its changes everyday. Also maybe she is not able to hit those hight notes in chest clear anymore maybe.. Maybe she wants to experiment with her vocal stylings and figure out how not to sound old fashioned vocally... Maybe the producers dont think she is doing anything wrong because certain things are meant to be sung unclear and not pretty.. So i think instead of her doing what you want her to do you need to adjust to her new style or dont buy the album

[garyhollander]

uggg I hear a lot of producers and vocal coaches rising up again suddenly talking about the technicalities of singing heheh hilarious made my day.. Everybody take a chill pill Contemporary diction/ Classical diction does not work on R&B songs/ Folky songs/ if you wanna keep up with the masses and find songs that sute you you got to change the diction to make it sound believable sometimes. Celine had always a different way of pronouncing words.. Most people tend to forget.. Her songs in the 90's had a more contemporary feel more ballady or straight up pop. So she didnt need to adjust anything.. Check treat her like a lady how she changed that.. And maybe she is experimenting .. I challenge anybody to sing heart of glass or the hard way with a clear contemporary diction and see how god awfull it sounds. cheers

[Shaun]

It's natural for a fan of anything to want that particular thing to be good or successful. That's the very nature of being a fan.

 

No fan of anything wants that particular product / movie / singer / team to do badly or not be successful. Ask any football fan. They go to the stadium hoping and expecting their team to win the match. No-one goes hoping their team will lose. Rarely will football fans say "well at least the players turned up to play the match." No, they will always demand more from their team. If they win the Championship this year.........the fans will demand they win it again next year! That's the way it is.

 

Many fans have grown up with Celine through her most successful periods. They were used to album after album after album. They have been used to promotion after promotion after promotion. They have been used to appearance after appearance after appearance. Yes, things change, but perhaps it makes it easier to understand why some fans hope and expect for things to stay the same. It's not unnatural for fans to want more of their "thing" to be successful.

 

Celine has traditionally always promoted her new music. So, naturally, when she (or her team) chooses not to - like with the Courage album - people struggle to adjust to that. That is natural.

 

I don't think anyone is demanding more of Celine. She's done the work. She has recorded the songs. She's done the photoshoot. She's filmed the music videos. She's performed the concerts.

 

The frustration comes in when nothing appears to happen on the back of those things. Is it Celine herself who decides not to bother with another single? Is it she who decides not to release a DVD from the 2017 tour? Is it she who doesn't book herself onto more TV shows? Maybe. Probably. Maybe. Probably not. Maybe she's still grieving, maybe not. Maybe she's struggling like many are with the pandemic. Maybe she's just not interested. Maybe she *thinks* everything is being taken care of and she *thinks* singles are being released, radio are playing her songs, her social media team are on fire. Maybe she thinks nothing has changed. Maybe she thinks her record company are doing a superb job. Only she, and her team knows.

 

If the football team were consistently losing games though.......the manager changes and new people with new ideas are brought in to try something different.

[ryba]

It's natural for a fan of anything to want that particular thing to be good or successful. That's the very nature of being a fan.

 

No fan of anything wants that particular product / movie / singer / team to do badly or not be successful. Ask any football fan. They go to the stadium hoping and expecting their team to win the match. No-one goes hoping their team will lose. Rarely will football fans say "well at least the players turned up to play the match." No, they will always demand more from their team. If they win the Championship this year.........the fans will demand they win it again next year! That's the way it is.

 

Many fans have grown up with Celine through her most successful periods. They were used to album after album after album. They have been used to promotion after promotion after promotion. They have been used to appearance after appearance after appearance. Yes, things change, but perhaps it makes it easier to understand why some fans hope and expect for things to stay the same. It's not unnatural for fans to want more of their "thing" to be successful.

 

Celine has traditionally always promoted her new music. So, naturally, when she (or her team) chooses not to - like with the Courage album - people struggle to adjust to that. That is natural.

 

I don't think anyone is demanding more of Celine. She's done the work. She has recorded the songs. She's done the photoshoot. She's filmed the music videos. She's performed the concerts.

 

The frustration comes in when nothing appears to happen on the back of those things. Is it Celine herself who decides not to bother with another single? Is it she who decides not to release a DVD from the 2017 tour? Is it she who doesn't book herself onto more TV shows? Maybe. Probably. Maybe. Probably not. Maybe she's still grieving, maybe not. Maybe she's struggling like many are with the pandemic. Maybe she's just not interested. Maybe she *thinks* everything is being taken care of and she *thinks* singles are being released, radio are playing her songs, her social media team are on fire. Maybe she thinks nothing has changed. Maybe she thinks her record company are doing a superb job. Only she, and her team knows.

 

If the football team were consistently losing games though.......the manager changes and new people with new ideas are brought in to try something different.

Shaun, you are absolutely right. Yet, I think that there is no point in trying to explain these very basics of being a fan to cetrain members here. They will write 100 posts with arguments that turn things around and make it look like we feel entitled and that she doesn't owe us anything.

[CelinesDIVO5]

It's natural for a fan of anything to want that particular thing to be good or successful. That's the very nature of being a fan.

 

No fan of anything wants that particular product / movie / singer / team to do badly or not be successful. Ask any football fan. They go to the stadium hoping and expecting their team to win the match. No-one goes hoping their team will lose. Rarely will football fans say "well at least the players turned up to play the match." No, they will always demand more from their team. If they win the Championship this year.........the fans will demand they win it again next year! That's the way it is.

 

Many fans have grown up with Celine through her most successful periods. They were used to album after album after album. They have been used to promotion after promotion after promotion. They have been used to appearance after appearance after appearance. Yes, things change, but perhaps it makes it easier to understand why some fans hope and expect for things to stay the same. It's not unnatural for fans to want more of their "thing" to be successful.

 

Celine has traditionally always promoted her new music. So, naturally, when she (or her team) chooses not to - like with the Courage album - people struggle to adjust to that. That is natural.

 

I don't think anyone is demanding more of Celine. She's done the work. She has recorded the songs. She's done the photoshoot. She's filmed the music videos. She's performed the concerts.

 

The frustration comes in when nothing appears to happen on the back of those things. Is it Celine herself who decides not to bother with another single? Is it she who decides not to release a DVD from the 2017 tour? Is it she who doesn't book herself onto more TV shows? Maybe. Probably. Maybe. Probably not. Maybe she's still grieving, maybe not. Maybe she's struggling like many are with the pandemic. Maybe she's just not interested. Maybe she *thinks* everything is being taken care of and she *thinks* singles are being released, radio are playing her songs, her social media team are on fire. Maybe she thinks nothing has changed. Maybe she thinks her record company are doing a superb job. Only she, and her team knows.

 

If the football team were consistently losing games though.......the manager changes and new people with new ideas are brought in to try something different.

 

I agree with you to a point. With sports teams, they are constantly evolving with new, younger, stronger players. Much like the music industry. The difference with musical artists and sports teams, is that fandom of sports teams is usually territorial and not based on who is playing for the team. For example, baseball teams. Most New Yorkers are fans of either the Yankees or the Mets. It’s much less common for a New Yorker to like a team from Florida. When it comes to a performer, they don’t get to bring in new vocal cords to sing, or new legs to dance for the next season. As they get older, their bodies change.

 

Also, the way a sports game is played, never changes. The rules are always the same. In entertainment, it’s always competition for new trends. So, you find singers and performers figuring out how to conform to new ways of performing and new sounds for music. In Celine’s case, she always wants to experiment but not stray too far from what she usually does. Since “Taking Chances,” I think she has succeeded on that front.

 

In sports, we know that the teams are going to come and try and play the game the way it has to be played. They may play differently because of the new players that come in, but it’s easier to try and keep the strength of the team and play the game based on the rules, whereas it’s not so easy for a singer who unfortunately ages within themselves, ages within the industry, and are treated differently to make room for where the young money is going to come from.

[browseceline]

uggg I hear a lot of producers and vocal coaches rising up again suddenly talking about the technicalities of singing heheh hilarious made my day.. Everybody take a chill pill Contemporary diction/ Classical diction does not work on R&B songs/ Folky songs/ if you wanna keep up with the masses and find songs that sute you you got to change the diction to make it sound believable sometimes. Celine had always a different way of pronouncing words.. Most people tend to forget.. Her songs in the 90's had a more contemporary feel more ballady or straight up pop. So she didnt need to adjust anything.. Check treat her like a lady how she changed that.. And maybe she is experimenting .. I challenge anybody to sing heart of glass or the hard way with a clear contemporary diction and see how god awfull it sounds. cheers

 

There is a difference in singing in another style ( Sia) or just having pronounciation so wrong that you can hardly understand the words. A producer should take care of that.

 

 

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[CelinesDIVO5]

It's natural for a fan of anything to want that particular thing to be good or successful. That's the very nature of being a fan.

 

No fan of anything wants that particular product / movie / singer / team to do badly or not be successful. Ask any football fan. They go to the stadium hoping and expecting their team to win the match. No-one goes hoping their team will lose. Rarely will football fans say "well at least the players turned up to play the match." No, they will always demand more from their team. If they win the Championship this year.........the fans will demand they win it again next year! That's the way it is.

 

Many fans have grown up with Celine through her most successful periods. They were used to album after album after album. They have been used to promotion after promotion after promotion. They have been used to appearance after appearance after appearance. Yes, things change, but perhaps it makes it easier to understand why some fans hope and expect for things to stay the same. It's not unnatural for fans to want more of their "thing" to be successful.

 

Celine has traditionally always promoted her new music. So, naturally, when she (or her team) chooses not to - like with the Courage album - people struggle to adjust to that. That is natural.

 

I don't think anyone is demanding more of Celine. She's done the work. She has recorded the songs. She's done the photoshoot. She's filmed the music videos. She's performed the concerts.

 

The frustration comes in when nothing appears to happen on the back of those things. Is it Celine herself who decides not to bother with another single? Is it she who decides not to release a DVD from the 2017 tour? Is it she who doesn't book herself onto more TV shows? Maybe. Probably. Maybe. Probably not. Maybe she's still grieving, maybe not. Maybe she's struggling like many are with the pandemic. Maybe she's just not interested. Maybe she *thinks* everything is being taken care of and she *thinks* singles are being released, radio are playing her songs, her social media team are on fire. Maybe she thinks nothing has changed. Maybe she thinks her record company are doing a superb job. Only she, and her team knows.

 

If the football team were consistently losing games though.......the manager changes and new people with new ideas are brought in to try something different.

 

As for her promotion, I think it heavily relies on her team. Remember, Sony INTENTIONALLY did not send LMBTL to radios back in 2013. Her management and PR team are supposed to be taking care of her on that front. They’re supposed to put a plan in place for Celine to follow. If Celine objects to singing on a popular late night show, and instead opts for interview only; it is her management that is supposed to push her to do the former and stress how important it is that she sing a new song. Yes, I’m sure she is well aware of that since she’s been in the business almost 40 years. But she needs a firm hand to maybe balance out her own ideas on how to handle these appearances. However, after 40 years...I don’t blame her for wanting to step back a bit and do the minimum. She’s earned that. Doesn’t mean that her management and PR people should have the option to take a seat though. They should be trying to find a common middle ground with Celine to maximize her career.

[stevo]

The whole streaming thing - Céline just isn’t in the running for anything that could compete nowadays. I don’t understand why people post daily updates on Spotify plays and all that- Ariana, Drake, Bieber - anything they do is instantly viewed, streamed, downloaded. Céline never will compete in that world. I’m not saying she has to, but people seem to stress out when songs are released and watching plays on YouTube slowly climb to a million. Not to be a misery, but her streaming/plays are just not there

[jpatdeleon09]

Let them post the numbers. Some songs may climb slowly but it’s improving so there are peeps who’s streaming we can’t say that there’s no one streaming it since it’s climbing up.

 

Like this one

 

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Edited November 30, 2020 at 06:53 PM by jpatdeleon09

[maki_Dion-er]

 

 

I agree with you to a point. With sports teams, they are constantly evolving with new, younger, stronger players. Much like the music industry. The difference with musical artists and sports teams, is that fandom of sports teams is usually territorial and not based on who is playing for the team. For example, baseball teams. Most New Yorkers are fans of either the Yankees or the Mets. It’s much less common for a New Yorker to like a team from Florida. When it comes to a performer, they don’t get to bring in new vocal cords to sing, or new legs to dance for the next season. As they get older, their bodies change.

 

Also, the way a sports game is played, never changes. The rules are always the same. In entertainment, it’s always competition for new trends. So, you find singers and performers figuring out how to conform to new ways of performing and new sounds for music. In Celine’s case, she always wants to experiment but not stray too far from what she usually does. Since “Taking Chances,” I think she has succeeded on that front.

 

In sports, we know that the teams are going to come and try and play the game the way it has to be played. They may play differently because of the new players that come in, but it’s easier to try and keep the strength of the team and play the game based on the rules, whereas it’s not so easy for a singer who unfortunately ages within themselves, ages within the industry, and are treated differently to make room for where the young money is going to come from.

 

To add to this, it's also important to note that expectations of what a success is with each stage of an artists career should change. We cannot continue to compare her success or her activity to that of artists at the height of popularity because she can't compete. It's like expecting Meryl Streep to be cast as lead in romantic dramas at her age, it's not a matter of her not being good but that interest is always with the younger actors. Meryl continues to deliver magnificent performances but her box office draw isn't the same.

[Bruno Portugal]

https://fb.watch/256zXNFqsk/

 

Watch the recording session for “The Chase”... AGAIN???

 

What are they doing? The album has 20 songs why publish the same video over and over again? LOL

[browseceline]

https://fb.watch/256zXNFqsk/

 

Watch the recording session for “The Chase”... AGAIN???

 

What are they doing? The album has 20 songs why publish the same video over and over again? LOL

 

A recording session would be with actual Recordings not with this studio version with her just dancing around.....grrr. I mean look at the ltal and ssda sessions...why do they not show that? We can listen to the album on Spotify youtube etc cd..give the fans something interesting, something extra!

 

 

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[Bruno Portugal]

 

 

A recording session would be with actual Recordings not with this studio version with her just dancing around.....grrr. I mean look at the ltal and ssda sessions...why do they not show that? We can listen to the album on Spotify youtube etc cd..give the fans something interesting, something extra!

 

 

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Time to explain that to her team. Why not publish new videos? It’s frustrating to watch so many lost opportunities...

[Chantemoi]

https://fb.watch/256zXNFqsk/

 

Watch the recording session for “The Chase”... AGAIN???

 

What are they doing? The album has 20 songs why publish the same video over and over again? LOL

 

Pathetic. This is the clip they accidentally posted on her Instagram account TWICE on the same day ... it stayed that way for a few weeks. Embarrassing.

 

It would be like if any of us posted the same thing back-to-back on the forum and never noticed. Just a sign of carelessness.

[Holborn]

It's sad, that's what it is. It's as if someone is doing it on purpose. So what's next, the FOMO recording sessions? and by recording sessions i mean the 1 min. PowerPoint presentations/slide shows. Inexcusable.

[PuraVida]

To add to this, it's also important to note that expectations of what a success is with each stage of an artists career should change. We cannot continue to compare her success or her activity to that of artists at the height of popularity because she can't compete. It's like expecting Meryl Streep to be cast as lead in romantic dramas at her age, it's not a matter of her not being good but that interest is always with the younger actors. Meryl continues to deliver magnificent performances but her box office draw isn't the same.

 

I think people are arguing against points that were never made. No one is demanding Celine magically snap her fingers and land in the top 10. They were just hoping she promote her album better, meaning take care of social media better and choose better online and TV outlets to promote. But that was last year, aka in the past.

 

More recently, they asked/hoped/mentioned (whatever verb) that she might give fans a little treat during the pandemic to hear her beautiful voice and connect with her. This could've been a short thing shot on her phone at her home, OR some clips from the vault or newly-HD uploads. etc. She wouldn't have to lift a finger and could enjoy time relaxing.

 

As far as what she actually is capable of, who knows? Cher was 52 or so when Believe went #1, Madonna had a huge worldwide #1 at age 47. Barbra was 54 when she had her first Top 10 hit in over a decade at that point. Legends like Celine and these other ladies break records and push boundaries. Tina Turner also had a Top 10 hit at 54.

 

That's one reason why fans have the right to be upset about Courage, because, even for legendary women performers, the 50s seem to be the last time to leave a big commercial impact. Celine's talent, artistry, career, and fanbase all deserve that. Do I personally cry if it doesn't happen? No. But I want it for her and us.

[Xpresso]

The whole streaming thing - Céline just isn't in the running for anything that could compete nowadays. I don't understand why people post daily updates on Spotify plays and all that- Ariana, Drake, Bieber - anything they do is instantly viewed, streamed, downloaded. Céline never will compete in that world. I'm not she has to, but people seem to stress out when songs are released and watching plays on YouTube slowly climb to a million. Not to be a misery, but her streaming/plays are just not there

Most veteran artists have the exact same problem. It's sad that a large part of their followers don't stream music!

[Xpresso]

As far as what she actually is capable of, who knows? Cher was 52 or so when Believe went #1, Madonna had a huge worldwide #1 at age 47. Barbra was 54 when she had her first Top 10 hit in over a decade at that point. Legends like Celine and these other ladies break records and push boundaries. Tina Turner also had a Top 10 hit at 54.

 

You can't really compare how the charts work now compared to 15 years ago. At that time, US charts were based on single sales (about 80%) and airplay (20%). Now it's all about streaming and older acts can't compete unfortunately. When is the last time a female singer over 50 had a #1 single in the US? I can't even remember...

Edited November 30, 2020 at 10:29 PM by Xpresso

[PuraVida]

You can't really compare how the charts work now compared to 15 years ago. At that time, US charts were based on single sales (about 80%) and airplay (20%). Now it's all about streaming and older acts can't compete unfortunately. When is the last time a female singer over 50 had a #1 single in the US? I can't even remember...

 

It was Cher, I'm almost certain. So 20 years before the release of Courage. I would never expect #1, but Top 100 or top 10/1 on AC chart would be her equivalent of those feats by those other women in this day and age. But I'm not the expert, I'm just laying out the argument. Imperfections did pretty well, and I'm happy it did!

 

Celine is at a huge disadvantage due to the ageism and sexism of the industry, and the streaming days. But if anyone can still make an impact it is her. A #1 album is something to be very proud about.

[maki_Dion-er]

 

 

I think people are arguing against points that were never made. No one is demanding Celine magically snap her fingers and land in the top 10. They were just hoping she promote her album better, meaning take care of social media better and choose better online and TV outlets to promote. But that was last year, aka in the past.

 

More recently, they asked/hoped/mentioned (whatever verb) that she might give fans a little treat during the pandemic to hear her beautiful voice and connect with her. This could've been a short thing shot on her phone at her home, OR some clips from the vault or newly-HD uploads. etc. She wouldn't have to lift a finger and could enjoy time relaxing.

 

As far as what she actually is capable of, who knows? Cher was 52 or so when Believe went #1, Madonna had a huge worldwide #1 at age 47. Barbra was 54 when she had her first Top 10 hit in over a decade at that point. Legends like Celine and these other ladies break records and push boundaries. Tina Turner also had a Top 10 hit at 54.

 

That's one reason why fans have the right to be upset about Courage, because, even for legendary women performers, the 50s seem to be the last time to leave a big commercial impact. Celine's talent, artistry, career, and fanbase all deserve that. Do I personally cry if it doesn't happen? No. But I want it for her and us.

 

My reply and I think Divo's reply was in regards to this

 

"It's natural for a fan of anything to want that particular thing to be good or successful. That's the very nature of being a fan.

 

No fan of anything wants that particular product / movie / singer / team to do badly or not be successful. Ask any football fan."

 

Those artists you listed had those big successes in their 50s when streaming wasn't what it is now. Her album did reach #1 even if it was for a lousy week. Who knows, maybe there's still a chance but let's not be overly disappointed if it doesn't happen. Maybe Ashes was Celine's Believe.

 

We all wish we were getting more from TC. We've repeated that many times. But what can we do? We leave comments on IG, twitter, youtube, FB, and all is ignored.

Edited November 30, 2020 at 11:44 PM by maki_Dion-er

[browseceline]

 

My reply and I think Divo's reply was in regards to this

 

"It's natural for a fan of anything to want that particular thing to be good or successful. That's the very nature of being a fan.

 

No fan of anything wants that particular product / movie / singer / team to do badly or not be successful. Ask any football fan."

 

Those artists you listed had those big successes in their 50s when streaming wasn't what it is now. Her album did reach #1 even if it was for a lousy week. Who knows, maybe there's still a chance but let's not be overly disappointed if it doesn't happen. Maybe Ashes was Celine's Believe.

 

We all wish we were getting more from TC. We've repeated that many times. But what can we do? We leave comments on IG, twitter, youtube, FB, and all is ignored.

 

Because none of their interns reads them

 

 

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[Chantemoi]

 

 

Because none of their interns reads them

 

They don’t even check up on her account once things are posted, to check the analytics, insights, or - I dunno - whether they posted the same damn clip for the third time!!

[Bruno Portugal]

Instead of silly sharing why not finally release the video for Lying Down?

I am repeating myself but so is the Celine team. LOL

[stevo]

Who are the inept group? Is it Sony Music Canada? TeamCeline? Feeling Productions? Dee & Pepe? All of them?

 

I used to be quite chilled and had faith that she'd surprise and delight again, but I really have lost it. She needs a new record label, a new young, market driven management team- who will GROW her legacy, promote new music and not just live off the past.

[PuraVida]

Who are the inept group? Is it Sony Music Canada? TeamCeline? Feeling Productions? Dee & Pepe? All of them?

 

I used to be quite chilled and had faith that she'd surprise and delight again, but I really have lost it. She needs a new record label, a new young, market driven management team- who will GROW her legacy, promote new music and not just live off the past.

 

Time to name names! 😆

 

anyone who has a job due to nepotism must go!

[joaofilho]

Who are the inept group? Is it Sony Music Canada? TeamCeline? Feeling Productions? Dee & Pepe? All of them?

 

I used to be quite chilled and had faith that she'd surprise and delight again, but I really have lost it. She needs a new record label, a new young, market driven management team- who will GROW her legacy, promote new music and not just live off the past.

 

I agree with you. For that to happen it is necessary for her to have a new manager, who will make things happen, just as there was a change in her band.

 

I agree with you. For that to happen it is necessary for her to have a new manager, who will make things happen, just as there was a change in her band.

[Céline RO]

1606818860[/url]' post='2395029']

Time to name names! ��

 

anyone who has a job due to nepotism must go!

 

Céline’s team is pretty much built on nepotism. There’s no way she’s going to fire all of her relatives and long-time friends.

 

It’s well known for being a family affair.

Edited December 1, 2020 at 12:09 PM by Céline RO

[PuraVida]

Céline’s team is pretty much built on nepotism. There’s no way she’s going to fire all of her relatives and long-time friends.

 

It’s well known for being a family affair.

 

That's a problem, hence my point.

[actofcontrition]

Another exemple of Team Celine being the worst team ever : the facebook fan group! Where the hell are those exclusive videos, photos and more? 😂😂😂