"Courage" album - Official Topic

[PuraVida]

The pronounciation is not the best and for that a producer should have been more on point and let her sing certain phrases again. We blame it on the lack of Rene but any producer could have let her sing to perfection and guide her. So here the producers in the studio , who can guide her, are to blame as well

 

As for her not promoting her songs enough in her tours.

I think the problem is al money - people that come to her concerts want to hear the hits and are less interested in new stuff. We fans do want to hear them but the show has to be successful so she does not take chances and wants to please the mainstream audience to make it a successful show. But I wish , now she is in charge, changes the wheel and goes her own way and really sings more songs of her latest album, and a few of the obligatory songs. But the new songs songs should be the main part of the show.

 

 

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I would imagine a lot of people are intimidated by Celine's reputation and legend, that they dare not correct her as much as they would need to. At this point in her career, over 50, after all those albums. It was probably very strange position for them to be in.

 

That's what Rene would've been good at, giving her bad news without her being defensive. That's not to say he was an angel.

[Ajax]

From what we know for facts, Celine asks for direction, comments and criticism. From the pure technical aspect of singing, phrasing, to the interpretation part. the only comments we have from songwriters and producers on Courage still rely exactly the same thing.

 

It looks like René wasn’t bothered by The live in Las Vegas when not a normal sound was coming from her mouth nor her potato and deep singing she kept doing from 2007 when René decided to Lock her up in an armful environment for the voice.

 

It s a natural thing to do after someone’s death but let s be a bit realistic and rational.

 

[smw]

I agree that producers should speak up regarding Celine's pronunciation, even if they're intimidated by her status / career. But I think Celine has really embraced a more casual ease, imperfect vocal delivery thanks to Sia and Adele. It also comes from Celine being over the mission of achieving perfection in the studio. She's been there, done that. And she reached the mountaintop doing so.

 

She can still sound flawless to this day. But after years and years of demonstrating perfection in the studio, she is enjoying the empowerment of being imperfect. I think she associates these kinds of vocals with more honesty / rawness / realness / authenticity. Whereas her reputation / career was actually built on flawless vocals. So there's been bit of a disconnect between her & her casual English speaking fans for a while regarding her new music.

 

My friends who are casual Celine fans & haven't really listened to Celine's new music since 2002 or earlier, don't want her to sound trendy and current. They want her to sound like her iconic, flawless self. Celine being Celine is what makes her iconic & relevant. She doesn't need to be Adele or Sia. Nor did she need to be Kelly Clarkson in 2007 with songs like Fade Away. So casual fans stick with Celine's early material.

 

I think Ashes is one of the most truly Celine songs we've had (in English) since 2002. And my friends loved it! I think the secret is that people want Celine songs to be epic & larger than life. Just like Celine herself. Like when she opens the Courage tour with IACBTMN, the crowds reaction is priceless — that's Celine fulfilling her destiny.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 at 08:29 PM by smw

[Shaun]

Imperfect vocal delivery is one thing. Surely being able to actually understand what is being sung is another?

[smw]

Imperfect vocal delivery is one thing. Surely being able to actually understand what is being sung is another?

 

Right.

If I had it my way, Celine would only work with producers who bring out those perfectly pronounced, crystalline vocals.

[Xpresso]

If you don't understand what she sings, just google the lyrics. Simple!

I do it with many singers...

[manolo19]

It is undeniable that when people come in studio with her , they just won't tell her the truth , otherwise we wouldn't be stuck with phrase like 'Until Now' at the end of heart of glass where you can clearly hear she imitates sia with a very sad and disapointing result, go back to your roots Celine ... perfection is the reason why she made it this far.. and when I hear her intentionnaly butcher what made her a legend as a contemporay vocalist, I can't help but think how I wish someone would tell her , please don't do that , you are Celine , not some wannabe trendy singer . And there are countless examples where you can clearly hear her getting loose on the delivery just for the sake of style and 'modern aspect' but it always feels fake, uncool and reductive to try to mimick other singers when she built her reputation on being a flawless singer

[SuperLove4Celine]

It is undeniable that when people come in studio with her , they just won't tell her the truth , otherwise we wouldn't be stuck with phrase like 'Until Now' at the end of heart of glass where you can clearly hear she imitates sia with a very sad and disapointing result, go back to your roots Celine ... perfection is the reason why she made it this far.. and when I hear her intentionnaly butcher what made her a legend as a contemporay vocalist, I can't help but think how I wish someone would tell her , please don't do that , you are Celine , not some wannabe trendy singer . And there are countless examples where you can clearly hear her getting loose on the delivery just for the sake of style and 'modern aspect' but it always feels fake, uncool and reductive to try to mimick other singers when she built her reputation on being a flawless singer

 

“Heart Of Glass” is one of my favorites from the album, but I agree with you about her phrasing. It’s abysmal.

[jpatdeleon09]

I think the song that I can’t understand from the new album because of her diction is The Hard Way (the chrous part)

[PuraVida]

From what we know for facts, Celine asks for direction, comments and criticism. From the pure technical aspect of singing, phrasing, to the interpretation part. the only comments we have from songwriters and producers on Courage still rely exactly the same thing.

 

It looks like René wasn't bothered by The live in Las Vegas when not a normal sound was coming from her mouth nor her potato and deep singing she kept doing from 2007 when René decided to Lock her up in an armful environment for the voice.

 

It s a natural thing to do after someone's death but let s be a bit realistic and rational.

 

I mean, she had some nasality during Vegas, but her diction wasn't horrible by any means. And Rene didn't lock her up, Celine wanted to do Vegas just as much as he did.

[PuraVida]

It is undeniable that when people come in studio with her , they just won't tell her the truth , otherwise we wouldn't be stuck with phrase like 'Until Now' at the end of heart of glass where you can clearly hear she imitates sia with a very sad and disapointing result, go back to your roots Celine ... perfection is the reason why she made it this far.. and when I hear her intentionnaly butcher what made her a legend as a contemporay vocalist, I can't help but think how I wish someone would tell her , please don't do that , you are Celine , not some wannabe trendy singer . And there are countless examples where you can clearly hear her getting loose on the delivery just for the sake of style and 'modern aspect' but it always feels fake, uncool and reductive to try to mimick other singers when she built her reputation on being a flawless singer

 

This is how I feel.

[Ajax]

 

I mean, she had some nasality during Vegas, but her diction wasn't horrible by any means. And Rene didn't lock her up, Celine wanted to do Vegas just as much as he did.

 

Céline wanted to do Vegas as much as him ? Maybe after A new day. We all know it wasn't the case before and it has been real hard for her.

 

We're talking about prononciation problems since almost 10 years here

[PuraVida]

Céline wanted to do Vegas as much as him ? Maybe after A new day. We all know it wasn't the case before and it has been real hard for her.

 

We're talking about prononciation problems since almost 10 years here

 

She's the one who turned to him after Cirque du Soleil show and said "I want to do something like that"

 

What am I missing?

[PuraVida]

This song came out in 2003. I would love to hear her take on it... I could totally hear Celine covering it for 1 fille y 4 Types

 

[Ajax]

She's the one who turned to him after Cirque du Soleil show and said "I want to do something like that"

 

What am I missing?

 

Hum well yes, between that, and the birth of René Charles, the Vegas thing, the stage, the schedule,...A lot of water has passed under the bridge. She talked quite a lot about that and we know it impacted also their couple and private life. Then, after A new day, it's another thing.

[Davey84]

This song came out in 2003. I would love to hear her take on it... I could totally hear Celine covering it for 1 fille y 4 Types

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhQ6Ne6EChI

 

To me this sounds dated, even in 2003 it would have sounded dated!

[PuraVida]

To me this sounds dated, even in 2003 it would have sounded dated!

 

I don't think so. It's pretty simple instrumentation, which is hard to date IMO. But she always could have changed the instrumentation, as she did with other covers. For example, "Tu Nagges" from 1F4T.

Edited November 23, 2020 at 09:32 AM by PuraVida

[PuraVida]

Hum well yes, between that, and the birth of René Charles, the Vegas thing, the stage, the schedule,...A lot of water has passed under the bridge. She talked quite a lot about that and we know it impacted also their couple and private life. Then, after A new day, it's another thing.

 

What water under the bridge? I don't understand the point you're making. If "we know" these things, then please show me the interviews where it's stated so I can find out.

[Ajax]

She cried out several time on TV or on some documentaries about that. Fans know it has been a hard period between them.

It s everywhere on YouTube.

[PuraVida]

She cried out several time on TV or on some documentaries about that. Fans know it has been a hard period between them.

It s everywhere on YouTube.

 

I am also a fan. And I am politely asking you to point me to just one Youtube video. I have never heard of them talk publicly about any hardship in their marriage.

[Shaun]

If you don't understand what she sings, just google the lyrics. Simple!

I do it with many singers...

 

For the French lyrics of course I do that.

[PuraVida]

Was "Tell Him" a chart-dominator of a song? It was never released as a single, right? Because it got #5 on the US AC charts....and usually songs that get that high on the AC Charts are #1 on the Billboard Charts. Celine should've had another #1 with that song!

[couldawouldashoulda]

 

 

I am also a fan. And I am politely asking you to point me to just one Youtube video. I have never heard of them talk publicly about any hardship in their marriage.

 

It might be in the biography? I can’t remember where but, having lived through that time, Celine definitely said at some point she wanted out of the Vegas deal but Rene forced her to go through with it because too much money had been spent. I don’t know how much it affected their relationship but there’s a clear moment on the A New Day...DVD when they’re in the car together and she’s CLEARLY pissed at how much work he’s scheduled for her on her downtime from Vegas. It’s one of my favorite moments ever. It shows that they were a normal couple who could snipe at each other.

[Ajax]

and it s in the A new day DVD where she literally cries explaining how she didn’t want to do that ?

We have quite a few direct words from her on that plus all the non explicit talk we had at that time. Plus reliable sources telling us at how they went through quite a hard time all due to a new day and Vegas.

 

Then after that she managed to find a confort zone and that s another story.

[couldawouldashoulda]

Was "Tell Him" a chart-dominator of a song? It was never released as a single, right? Because it got #5 on the US AC charts....and usually songs that get that high on the AC Charts are #1 on the Billboard Charts. Celine should've had another #1 with that song!

 

It was a radio single in the US - I think it was released late September/early October. The song was also on Barbara's album and hers got released one week before Let's Talk About Love. (It's the only reason I bought that album of Barbara's which I actually ended up quite enjoying.) The song only had about a month until it was completely pushed aside for My Heart Will Go On. One month after the MHWGO's release, the movie was released and then...

[ryba]

Plus reliable sources telling us at how they went through quite a hard time all due to a new day and Vegas.

 

Really? Which ones?

[ryba]

It’s so interesting to see how well they could keep their private business and struggles away from the public all the time. I’m sure there was a lot going on behind the scenes that we would never expect.

[Ajax]

Really? Which ones?

 

There are better people for that than me .We happenned to have some good sources in the past, I'm usually very catious with all that but like it was something quite known. And, I guess in a short time people here could find some videos. But at that time evidences coming directly from her mouth and other indirect talk clearly show that they went trough something, without dramatising. I'm surprised you seem to discover it She spoke quite a few times about all that.

[Ajax]

It's so interesting to see how well they could keep their private business and struggles away from the public all the time. I'm sure there was a lot going on behind the scenes that we would never expect.

 

But that's for sure.

[ryba]

I know that she said she didn't want to do the AND show because she became a mom, but it was too advanced. I think the hardship was the workload, which she obiously didn't like. But from that I wouldn't conclude that they had relationship issues.