"Courage" album - Official Topic

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

If Celine wanted to go to a new label, she would never be in danger of not being signed. She's Celine Dion. A still vital, active and top talent act. She'd be just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think Celine could pull off a change at this point ?? Shes far too valuable to sony even if she doesnt pull in the sales anymore plus we know celine is very unlikely to make the change herself. Who would accept her because apart from the name that comes with her, she doesnt deliver the sales those companies crave. She could go to Universal Music Group which is the biggest Record label world wide with over 29.85 percent of all the world record sales.... but i highly doubt it. shes far too secure at sony, shes been there for 28 years so now... a change is unlikely to say the least

[Dion2000]

 

Im not saying she wouldnt be signed, simply that she would be looked at twice because she doesnt bring in sales that she did say 10-20 years ago and probably never will bring those sales in again.

 

Shes active and a vocal talent yes, but your record label in all honesty couldnt care less about your live performances or how you are vocally. As long as you bring in money, they dont care

 

Its extremely harsh i know, but to quote celine "thats the way it is"

[scielle]

 

 

Im not saying she wouldnt be signed, simply that she would be looked at twice because she doesnt bring in sales that she did say 10-20 years ago and probably never will bring those sales in again.

 

Shes active and a vocal talent yes, but your record label in all honesty couldnt care less about your live performances or how you are vocally. As long as you bring in money, they dont care

 

Its extremely harsh i know, but to quote celine "thats the way it is"

 

She DOES bring in the money. EUS was Sony's top selling album for the quarter it was released, and that's for a FRENCH record that got basically no promo in the US.

[Dion2000]

She DOES bring in the money. EUS was Sony's top selling album for the quarter it was released, and that's for a FRENCH record that got basically no promo in the US.

 

The album in its quarter sold 400,000/ 500,000 making her money brought in from that somewhere between 4.9 and 5.3 Million, deduct Celines cut and the songwriters/producers sony have probably received 1 to 1.5 million. Thats nowhere near what most sales bring in, giving that EUS was almost 99% sales in french territories and that its sold better than her last 2 English albums the odds are stacked against her in an ENGLISH market which is where these companies are focusing on.

 

People like Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran. Bruno Mars, Adele, Rihanna, Sam Smith..... have all brought in tens of millions with their album sales, on average bringing over 63% of their album average sales ( both digital and physical - 6,500,000 ) in as record label profit as over 64 Million US dollars (thats an average of 10,666,666 US dollars each) where as Celine only brought in 800,000 sales since August 2016 making hers around 7.5 million where as in an 18 month bracket, Love Me Back To Life only brought in 5.8 Million. With LMBTL only getting a million in late 2015.

 

I sound like a complete jerk right now but its all true and its horrible truth at that

 

 

Celine didnt enter the top 200 2016 end of year WW album sales, Meaning EUS didnt sell enough to make it into the top 200 of WW sales.

 

LMBTL barely made 2013s top 200 end of year ww albums chart, but 2013 was also musics lowest released albums year since 2001.

 

 

Im hating to do this but its TRUE

Edited April 4, 2018 at 10:12 PM by Dion2000

[pat200]

The album in its quarter sold 400,000/ 500,000 making her money brought in from that somewhere between 4.9 and 5.3 Million, deduct Celines cut and the songwriters/producers sony have probably received 1 to 1.5 million. Thats nowhere near what most sales bring in, giving that EUS was almost 99% sales in french territories and that its sold better than her last 2 English albums the odds are stacked against her in an ENGLISH market which is where these companies are focusing on.

 

People like Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran. Bruno Mars, Adele, Rihanna, Sam Smith..... have all brought in tens of millions with their album sales, on average bringing over 63% of their album average sales ( both digital and physical - 6,500,000 ) in as record label profit as over 64 Million US dollars (thats an average of 10,666,666 US dollars each) where as Celine only brought in 800,000 sales since August 2016 making hers around 7.5 million where as in an 18 month bracket, Love Me Back To Life only brought in 5.8 Million. With LMBTL only getting a million in late 2015.

 

I sound like a complete jerk right now but its all true and its horrible truth at that

 

 

Celine didnt enter the top 200 2016 end of year WW album sales, Meaning EUS didnt sell enough to make it into the top 200 of WW sales.

 

LMBTL barely made 2013s top 200 end of year ww albums chart, but 2013 was also musics lowest released albums year since 2001.

 

 

Im hating to do this but its TRUE

 

 

please do some research before saying ignorant stuff such as she didn't make the top 200 worldwide with EUS and LMBTL.

 

she was number 22 with EUS WORLDWIDE

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2016.htm

 

 

and number 38 WORLDWIDE with LMBTL

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2013.htm

[manu23]

Do you think Celine could pull off a change at this point ?? Shes far too valuable to sony even if she doesnt pull in the sales anymore plus we know celine is very unlikely to make the change herself. Who would accept her because apart from the name that comes with her, she doesnt deliver the sales those companies crave. She could go to Universal Music Group which is the biggest Record label world wide with over 29.85 percent of all the world record sales.... but i highly doubt it. shes far too secure at sony, shes been there for 28 years so now... a change is unlikely to say the least

 

With all respect, you don't have a clue on what you are talking about. Any record label would kill to have Celine. After 30 years of career she is still always one of the top paid females singers (4th last year to be exact). Do you know how much money Celine's brand generates? Do you really think that music business in 2018 is about selling albums?

 

 

People like Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran. Bruno Mars, Adele, Rihanna, Sam Smith..... have all brought in tens of millions with their album sales, on average bringing over 63% of their album average sales ( both digital and physical - 6,500,000 ) in as record label profit as over 64 Million US dollars (thats an average of 10,666,666 US dollars each) where as Celine only brought in 800,000 sales since August 2016 making hers around 7.5 million where as in an 18 month bracket, Love Me Back To Life only brought in 5.8 Million. With LMBTL only getting a million in late 2015.

 

The concept of profit (not revenue or sales) should be easy to understand for everyone, if to generate 10M you need to invest 5M your profit is 5M, but if you invest 2M and get 7M your profit is also 5M. You are comparing Celine to artists at their peaks which doesn't make sense, but despite I'm sure she is more profitable for Sony than any other new artists.

[Peppercorn1991]

So was there any info in Paris match?

 

Kev x

[Dion2000]

 

 

 

please do some research before saying ignorant stuff such as she didn't make the top 200 worldwide with EUS and LMBTL.

 

she was number 22 with EUS WORLDWIDE

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2016.htm

 

 

and number 38 WORLDWIDE with LMBTL

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2013.htm

 

Once again. End of year charts, not their entry / best / highest placement on the charts. LMBTL entered at #4 in the US charts, however it quickly fell out of the top ten. It didnt make the Top 200 end of year charts, its on BillBoards website you can read it there yourself

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

Once again. End of year charts, not their entry / best / highest placement on the charts. LMBTL entered at #4 in the US charts, however it quickly fell out of the top ten. It didnt make the Top 200 end of year charts, its on BillBoards website you can read it there yourself

 

 

LMBTL actually entered and peaked at #2 in the US. On the worldwide charts according to IFPI, it was the 25th best selling album worldwide in 2013.

[Dion2000]

 

 

With all respect, you don't have a clue on what you are talking about. Any record label would kill to have Celine. After 30 years of career she is still always one of the top paid females singers (4th last year to be exact). Do you know how much money Celine's brand generates? Do you really think that music business in 2018 is about selling albums?

 

 

 

 

The concept of profit (not revenue or sales) should be easy to understand for everyone, if to generate 10M you need to invest 5M your profit is 5M, but if you invest 2M and get 7M your profit is also 5M. You are comparing Celine to artists at their peaks which doesn't make sense, but despite I'm sure she is more profitable for Sony than any other new artists.

 

What youre saying doesnt make sense. 90% of Celines income is her live performances, she makes 500k a show in vegas and in the year she made somewhere between 35-36 million from Vegas alone, and made 65 million on her summer tour. Her other income was her handbag launch which attracted LOTS of attention. If you look at that, almost none of her income is from album profit in any way.

 

Once again, these are Industry standards, not comparinf Celine to artists at their peaks. Taylor Swifts album she recently released did far worse as did Sam Smiths and Drakes. All of their profit including Ed Sheeran and Adele came from a combo of touring and albums. Celine in 2016 made an estimated 4-5 million from EUS, however she made almost (once again) 80% of her profit from touring and live shows, she earned 56 million from her summer tour and around 30 million from vegas (29,610,000 US dollars to be exact). Being on the list of highest earning has nothing to do with album sales directly making it an invalid point to make.

 

Ed Sheeran has made over 10 million from his album. He writes and produces almost 99% of his songs by himself, Celine has to pay producers, writers, composers and other royalties when she does covers. Meaning she will get way lower than the rest where as Ed is getting direct profit because he does his stuff mainly by himself. Once again Celine will be further disfavoured as her income will be lower because shes paying such and such To writers etc. I mean shes gonna have songs like HDAMLF and TSMGO on this album you can tell, thats already a massive chunk of their profits gone to royalties and paying writers etc.

 

Celine has the name and the history but the same thing happend to Tina Turner, Cher, Mariah, even Madonna. Yes they have the legendary factor, but once sales stop intrest stops. They changed labels later on and it was alot harded to get one because they didnt have sales anymore.

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

What youre saying doesnt make sense. 90% of Celines income is her live performances, she makes 500k a show in vegas and in the year she made somewhere between 35-36 million from Vegas alone, and made 65 million on her summer tour. Her other income was her handbag launch which attracted LOTS of attention. If you look at that, almost none of her income is from album profit in any way.

 

Once again, these are Industry standards, not comparinf Celine to artists at their peaks. Taylor Swifts album she recently released did far worse as did Sam Smiths and Drakes. All of their profit including Ed Sheeran and Adele came from a combo of touring and albums. Celine in 2016 made an estimated 4-5 million from EUS, however she made almost (once again) 80% of her profit from touring and live shows, she earned 56 million from her summer tour and around 30 million from vegas (29,610,000 US dollars to be exact). Being on the list of highest earning has nothing to do with album sales directly making it an invalid point to make.

 

Ed Sheeran has made over 10 million from his album. He writes and produces almost 99% of his songs by himself, Celine has to pay producers, writers, composers and other royalties when she does covers. Meaning she will get way lower than the rest where as Ed is getting direct profit because he does his stuff mainly by himself. Once again Celine will be further disfavoured as her income will be lower because shes paying such and such To writers etc. I mean shes gonna have songs like HDAMLF and TSMGO on this album you can tell, thats already a massive chunk of their profits gone to royalties and paying writers etc.

 

Celine has the name and the history but the same thing happend to Tina Turner, Cher, Mariah, even Madonna. Yes they have the legendary factor, but once sales stop intrest stops. They changed labels later on and it was alot harded to get one because they didnt have sales anymore.

 

 

Honey, where has it ever been stated that any of the above names you mentioned had trouble transitioning to a new label because "they weren't selling like they used to?" These singers' names are assets on their own to any record company. Mariah had a hard time once because of lower than expected sales on a soundtrack in 2001, plus the bad publicity she was receiving at that time. Otherwise, I've never heard of such a thing for anyone else.

[Dion2000]

 

 

 

LMBTL actually entered and peaked at #2 in the US. On the worldwide charts according to IFPI, it was the 25th best selling album worldwide in 2013.

 

Well i might have been wrong with the peak in the charts. But if you go on BillBoards end of year charts for album sales in 2013 and 2016, Celine isnt on either of them. Ive looked Believe me. On her profile on BillBoard her albums that entered end of year charts stops at TC. According to the RIAA, in the 2015, 2016 and 2017 best selling artists certified list, Celine doesnt tally in. And placed at her peak in 2016 in the bests selling female category with EUS at #20

[Dion2000]

 

 

 

Honey, where has it ever been stated that any of the above names you mentioned had trouble transitioning to a new label because "they weren't selling like they used to?" These singers' names are assets on their own to any record company. Mariah had a hard time once because of lower than expected sales on a soundtrack in 2001, plus the bad publicity she was receiving at that time. Otherwise, I've never heard of such a thing for anyone else.

 

First of all you can stop calling me honey, id rather you didnt please and thank you. I find it rude that you think you can call me that in a clearly demeaning way.

 

Madonna, Cher, Tina Turner, Paul McCartney... all of these artists are cited as having trouble swapping record labels due to their incapability of sales. Celine can sell out stadiums but that doesnt concern record labels and as much as I adore Celine with all my heart she simply couldn’t sell like she did then, and thats what all labels care about

[rhapsodion]

 

 

Well i might have been wrong with the peak in the charts. But if you go on BillBoards end of year charts for album sales in 2013 and 2016, Celine isnt on either of them. Ive looked Believe me. On her profile on BillBoard her albums that entered end of year charts stops at TC. According to the RIAA, in the 2015, 2016 and 2017 best selling artists certified list, Celine doesnt tally in. And placed at her peak in 2016 in the bests selling female category with EUS at #20

 

But I thought u were talking about world wide sales in the first place, so just looking at Billboard year end chart doesn't give you much. Sony is an international record company, even if album like LMBTL didn't sell well in the US, Celine is still selling sell world wide, and making profit for the record company.

[manu23]

 

 

First of all you can stop calling me honey, id rather you didnt please and thank you. I find it rude that you think you can call me that in a clearly demeaning way.

 

Madonna, Cher, Tina Turner, Paul McCartney... all of these artists are cited as having trouble swapping record labels due to their incapability of sales. Celine can sell out stadiums but that doesnt concern record labels and as much as I adore Celine with all my heart she simply couldn’t sell like she did then, and thats what all labels care about

 

So you are saying that Sony doesn’t make money from Celine tours? Hahaha You are funny

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

First of all you can stop calling me honey, id rather you didnt please and thank you. I find it rude that you think you can call me that in a clearly demeaning way.

 

Madonna, Cher, Tina Turner, Paul McCartney... all of these artists are cited as having trouble swapping record labels due to their incapability of sales. Celine can sell out stadiums but that doesnt concern record labels and as much as I adore Celine with all my heart she simply couldn’t sell like she did then, and thats what all labels care about

 

I didn't mean it to be demeaning, I apologize.

 

Can you please provide sources where these things are stated?

[québecflower]

I didn't mean it to be demeaning, I apologize.

 

Can you please provide sources where these things are stated?

this is where this discussion ends... sources. they don't exist. i asked for the source about the fact that Celine was the second choice to sing beauty and the beast, i'm still waiting.

[CelinesDIVO5]

this is where this discussion ends... sources. they don't exist. i asked for the source about the fact that Celine was the second choice to sing beauty and the beast, i'm still waiting.

 

Lol who the hell said that?

[québecflower]

Lol who the hell said that?

the same as you...

[CelinesDIVO5]

the same as you...

 

Oy vey. I can't.

[pat200]

Once again. End of year charts, not their entry / best / highest placement on the charts. LMBTL entered at #4 in the US charts, however it quickly fell out of the top ten. It didnt make the Top 200 end of year charts, its on BillBoards website you can read it there yourself

 

Once again, the US in not the WORLD!!! Billboard only does the US. She was top40 WORLDWIDE with both those releases, beating out some of the big names at the moment, and this is what counts. If she wants to switch labels, ANY label will take her as she is selling at least 1 million PHYSICAL albums with every release.

[wjd]

Do you think Celine could pull off a change at this point ?? Shes far too valuable to sony even if she doesnt pull in the sales anymore plus we know celine is very unlikely to make the change herself. Who would accept her because apart from the name that comes with her, she doesnt deliver the sales those companies crave. She could go to Universal Music Group which is the biggest Record label world wide with over 29.85 percent of all the world record sales.... but i highly doubt it. shes far too secure at sony, shes been there for 28 years so now... a change is unlikely to say the least

 

With a French release, she had the 5th best-selling album of 2016 by a female artist - she DOES still deliver the sales the companies crave.

 

Further, even if she didn't - having that name value on your label is priceless (and for Sony, even moreso - they license her catalogue from day 1 - it'd be a damn shame for them to lose anything).

[wjd]

Once again. End of year charts, not their entry / best / highest placement on the charts. LMBTL entered at #4 in the US charts, however it quickly fell out of the top ten. It didnt make the Top 200 end of year charts, its on BillBoards website you can read it there yourself

 

The label only cares about the end result.

 

Celine is a veteran artist, even with promotion, she's going to sell 90% of a project's entire output in the first 2 months. It's just the way things work - there are no exceptions as far as veteran female artists go. The only exception is that Celine continues to sell more albums than any other veteran female artist (including Madonna).

 

IFPI - Top 10 Best-Selling Albums - Female Artists - 2016

 

#1 - Beyoncé - Lemonade (2.5m - #1 overall)

#2 - Adele - 25 (2.4m - #2 overall)

#3 - Sia - This Is Acting (1.2m - #13 overall)

#4 - Rihanna - Anti (1.1m - #18 overall)

#5 - Céline Dion - Encore Un Soir (1.1m - #19 overall)

#6 - Lady Gaga - Joanne (1.0m - #22 overall)

#7 - Utada Hikaru - Fantôme (1.0m - #23 overall)

#8 - Ariana Grande - Dangerous Woman (0.9m - #28 overall)

#9 - Norah Jones - Day Breaks (0.6m - #44 overall)

#10 - Barbra Streisand - Encore: Movie Partners Sing Broadway (0.6m - #45 overall)

#11 - Taylor Swift - 1989 (0.6m - #47 overall)

 

IFPI - Top 10 Best-Selling Albums - Female Artists - 2013

 

#1 - Katy Perry PRISM (2.8m - #6 overall)

#2 - Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (2.3m # 9 overall)

#3 - Beyoncé - Beyoncé (2.3m - #10 overall)

#4 - P!nk - The Truth About Love (2.2m - #11 overall)

#5 - Adele - 21 (1.7m - #17 overall)

#6 - Miley Cyrus - Bangerz (1.6m - #20 overall)

#7 - Céline Dion - Loved Me Back to Life (1.5m - #25 overall)

#8 - Lorde - Pure Heroine (1.4m - #28 overall)

#9 - Kelly Clarkson - Wrapped In Red (1.3m - #31 overall)

#10 - Emeli Sandé - Our Version of Events (1.2m - #33 overall)

 

Assuming an average merchant price (label price to the retailer) of $8 for each album, per unit - that's probably $8 million for Encore un soir and $12 million for Loved Me Back To Life. But that's small fry compared to the priceless capital and prestige Sony makes from her name and presence on the label.

Edited April 5, 2018 at 07:26 PM by wjd

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

The label only cares about the end result.

 

Celine is a veteran artist, even with promotion, she's going to sell 90% of a project's entire output in the first 2 months. It's just the way things work - there are no exceptions as far as veteran female artists go. The only exception is that Celine continues to sell more albums than any other veteran female artist (including Madonna).

 

IFPI - Top 10 Best-Selling Albums - Female Artists - 2016

 

#1 - Beyoncé - Lemonade (2.5m - #1 overall)

#2 - Adele - 25 (2.4m - #2 overall)

#3 - Sia - This Is Acting (1.2m - #13 overall)

#4 - Rihanna - Anti (1.1m - #18 overall)

#5 - Céline Dion - Encore Un Soir (1.1m - #19 overall)

#6 - Lady Gaga - Joanne (1.0m - #22 overall)

#7 - Utada Hikaru - Fantôme (1.0m - #23 overall)

#8 - Ariana Grande - Dangerous Woman (0.9m - #28 overall)

#9 - Norah Jones - Day Breaks (0.6m - #44 overall)

#10 - Barbra Streisand - Encore: Movie Partners Sing Broadway (0.6m - #45 overall)

#11 - Taylor Swift - 1989 (0.6m - #47 overall)

 

IFPI - Top 10 Best-Selling Albums - Female Artists - 2013

 

#1 - Katy Perry PRISM (2.8m - #6 overall)

#2 - Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (2.3m # 9 overall)

#3 - Beyoncé - Beyoncé (2.3m - #10 overall)

#4 - P!nk - The Truth About Love (2.2m - #11 overall)

#5 - Adele - 21 (1.7m - #17 overall)

#6 - Miley Cyrus - Bangerz (1.6m - #20 overall)

#7 - Céline Dion - Loved Me Back to Life (1.5m - #25 overall)

#8 - Lorde - Pure Heroine (1.4m - #28 overall)

#9 - Kelly Clarkson - Wrapped In Red (1.3m - #31 overall)

#10 - Emeli Sandé - Our Version of Events (1.2m - #33 overall)

 

Assuming an average merchant price (label price to the retailer) of $8 for each album, per unit - that's probably $8 million for Encore un soir and $12 million for Loved Me Back To Life. But that's small fry compared to the priceless capital and prestige Sony makes from her name and presence on the label.

 

This.

 

Not to mention that record labels are not run off of album sales alone. You have to figure in stocks and investors. Having Celine Dion's name on your label sells stocks and makes people want to invest in projects with said record company. It's not only about what she's selling, it's also who she is selling to. Having her name; especially for such a long time is a sign of endurance, longevity and integrity for Sony. Investors throw money at that type of reputation.

Edited April 5, 2018 at 07:39 PM by CelinesDIVO5

[actofcontrition]

First of all you can stop calling me honey, id rather you didnt please and thank you. I find it rude that you think you can call me that in a clearly demeaning way.

 

Madonna, Cher, Tina Turner, Paul McCartney... all of these artists are cited as having trouble swapping record labels due to their incapability of sales. Celine can sell out stadiums but that doesnt concern record labels and as much as I adore Celine with all my heart she simply couldn't sell like she did then, and thats what all labels care about

 

Are you stupid or something?? You really think there is only the album sales?? Celine is one of the top seller for shows/tour and she is doing tons of shows like no other per year. She is almost sold out everywhere everytime. Of course Sony is earning BIG money from the tours, vegas, albums.

 

Madonna having trouble? She have a huge deal with Live nation for her albums, tour, merch. Her Rebel Heart Tour grossed $169.8 million

[alexceline]

Bringing up people like Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and Adele to prove that Celine isn't selling much anymore is kinda aimless tbh. They are the exception and not the rule. The young genegation of singers is struggling to cross 1 million pure sales. Streaming is what keeps them. Celine is selling in pure sales what many of them are in sps.So even though her album sales have declined drastically, she still is doing very well

[Shamrock_1982]

I really think they need to release the first single and an amazing video within the next 3/4 weeks whether the album is ready or not as people are hungry for something... a little teaser and then a few months later the album and heavy promo.

 

I love that she wants it to perfect and rightly so but it’s the longest album

in the works I can remember from her.

Part of me wishes the next album is recorded in secret and then Bam, surprise!!!!

Edited April 5, 2018 at 08:49 PM by Shamrock_1982

[Dion2000]

FINE then. I cant deal with this. Ill delete my account, thats whats needed here. Btw i dont have time to spend hours sending links and responding to all of your hate. Goodbye haters cause thats all you are

[CelinesDIVO5]

FINE then. I cant deal with this. Ill delete my account, thats whats needed here. Btw i dont have time to spend hours sending links and responding to all of your hate. Goodbye haters cause thats all you are

 

Nobody is hating on you! We are just asking where you got your information from. Up until this conversation, you've been quite pleasant to post with on here. We were just asking for clarification because we had never heard of any of these things before.

[Dion2000]

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2016/top-billboard-200-albums

 

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2013/top-billboard-200-albums

 

Im still busy doinf exam study so ill find the other links later. Or not, but since i am hated I will delete my account as per request