Mariah Carey: Official Topic

[Yangedd]

i just wanted to let u know about it, coz i didnt want u to go like "mehh!! she sounds ok but she doesnt sound all that like they say she is". Mariah wasnt at her best during "1998 Divas live". Mariah sounded best during "Daydream" era in 1996. her "Mariah Carey - Live at Madison Square Garden 1996" dvd still remains the best. u can find it on youtube.

 

I'm hooked on "One Sweet Day" at the moment. I've been listening to it all morning.

 

[comingback]

Making of Dreamlover (my favorite Mariah video)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuuPWXNazGs

[Yangedd]

Reflections.

 

 

[Si J'etais Quelqu'un]

While I think #Beautiful is a decent track (much better than her latest lead singles), I find the album title to be extremely cheesy. I bet Mariah is about to feed her lambs (since I highly doubt anyone outside her hardcore fan base with purchase the album) with her casual ''break-up'' songs, most of which could be written by 15 year olds. Thing is that both Mariah and her fans think her music is profound, diverse and even innovative, but that's not the case. While I give her credit for being creative, I can't ignore the fact that her discography is extremely limited and repeatitive in terms of lyrical content. Seems like she can't see beyond small ''self-empowrement'' concepts (most of which ARE related to love & breaking-up anyway) and... breaking-up! In my opinion, her artistic ambition ended with ''Butterfly'' back in 1997. It's all about her number 1 syndrome & the corny childish/sexy attitude ever since. I used to be a big fan, but I'm not anymore, I'm really disappointed.

 

I do feel that her maturity peaked with Butterfly and with Rainbow we saw a huge regression which has more or less continued since. And I do think she needs to be popular and go to #1 (probably as overcompensation for feeling marginalized growing up due to her mixed heritage). I don't necessarily think "letting go" can only be applied to breaking up, however. I don't like the title much, but letting go can be applied to simply taking your hands off the metaphorical wheel, giving up a bit of control, etc. Letting go in life, relinquishing the illusion of having absolute power over everything that happens to you, and taking things as they come, it could even be applied (in my fantasy land) to Mariah letting go and allowing vocal imperfections for the sake of a raw, honest, truthful sound. At least my ideal is that the theme is more encompassing like that. And the idea of Mariah's music being lyrically repetitive is symptomatic of pop music in general I'm afraid, which is either focused on partying or breaking up/making up. Every artist ends up with a niche, or a theme to their career, and I'm okay with self-empowerment being Mariah's.

 

And NOT to throw shade, Luke, but we're all on a Celine Dion forum at the end of the day, and I don't think we're in it for her profundity and innovation. So I reckon it's okay to not have to be striving for those all the time; sometimes familiarity has great comfort and value.

[Yangedd]

Can anyone give me info on this song, please?

 

[Si J'etais Quelqu'un]

Can anyone give me info on this song, please?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ETQ0rXMTSc

 

It was 2002.

 

Virgin had just paid Mariah $28 million to go away and Island Def Jam snapped her up and she immediately went to work on an album that, in retrospect, can only be viewed as damage control. IDJ's whole plan was to create a "back to basics" image/approach for Mariah's new album after she'd "gone too far" into the hip-hop world and alienated the majority of her earlier fanbase. This plan went down to dressing more demurely, even wearing her hair curly (which Mariah has commented on) to remind people of her first album. Supposedly Charmbracelet is also a "back to basics" album - and it's not. But Through The Rain was... I'm not going to say Mariah wrote a self-empowerment anthem a la Hero simply because the label wanted an old school power ballad from her, but they certainly made it the first single because of that quality. And she'd go on all the talk shows and talk about her emotional and physical meltdown, and then sing this song, and the desired effect was that she'd be seen as a survivor and it would lend her gravitas or something, and revitalize her career. It wasn't and it didn't. At least not until a few years later when she had a decent set of songs.

[Yangedd]

It was 2002.

 

Virgin had just paid Mariah $28 million to go away and Island Def Jam snapped her up and she immediately went to work on an album that, in retrospect, can only be viewed as damage control. IDJ's whole plan was to create a "back to basics" image/approach for Mariah's new album after she'd "gone too far" into the hip-hop world and alienated the majority of her earlier fanbase. This plan went down to dressing more demurely, even wearing her hair curly (which Mariah has commented on) to remind people of her first album. Supposedly Charmbracelet is also a "back to basics" album - and it's not. But Through The Rain was... I'm not going to say Mariah wrote a self-empowerment anthem a la Hero simply because the label wanted an old school power ballad from her, but they certainly made it the first single because of that quality. And she'd go on all the talk shows and talk about her emotional and physical meltdown, and then sing this song, and the desired effect was that she'd be seen as a survivor and it would lend her gravitas or something, and revitalize her career. It wasn't and it didn't. At least not until a few years later when she had a decent set of songs.

 

Wow - A lot of information. Thank you very much. Been listening all morning. Ity could be fast coming that this is my favorite, beating TGIFY.

[comingback]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llcbkyMc3TI

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8pz9bQhrNM

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8SicQRkv1E

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbGN3s9ZvU

 

 

I love the Music Box Album. I can't believe it's 20 years old. I remember buying it in 1993.

Edited June 19, 2013 at 04:01 PM by comingback

[Ray]

@Yangedd, Through The Rain was a top 10 hit in various European countries like the Netherlands, the UK, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Italy...

 

Although she usually has her biggest hits in the US, this time it only went up to #81 on the HOT 100.

I never understood why it was a bigger hit in Europe. I really love this song.

The video is my most favorite MC video ever.

[Ray]

@LukeD, to me Mariah is an incredible songwriter. She writes beautiful lyrics. Which artists have better lyrics in your opinion. Cause honestly, I can only think of very few if it comes down to songwriting skills.

[celine4evauk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llcbkyMc3TI

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8pz9bQhrNM

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8SicQRkv1E

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbGN3s9ZvU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=185XyDE17mw

 

I love the Music Box Album. I can't believe it's 20 years old. I remember buying it in 1993.

 

Me too. I adore her first 3 albums especially (studio albums). Her voice was so clear and strong. I remember being absolutely obsessed with So Blessed.

Seeing Hero made me think about how, if Mariah had had her own way, Hero would have sounded with Gloria singing it?? Well done Tommy!

[GoldenLeaf]

This reporter claims Beautiful is not a hit. I chewed her up and spat her out.

 

http://www.examiner....ut-a-hit-single

This reporter is actually right. Beautiful flopped in Canada, Japan and in European countries

 

#15 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 isn't exactly what I would call a Hit. ''Obsessed'' might have reached #7 on the Billboard Hot 100 but nobody remembers this song now and it didn't even manage save her Memoirs Of An Imperfect Angel album from flopping hard.

Edited June 19, 2013 at 06:26 PM by GoldenLeaf

[LukeD]

I do feel that her maturity peaked with Butterfly and with Rainbow we saw a huge regression which has more or less continued since. And I do think she needs to be popular and go to #1 (probably as overcompensation for feeling marginalized growing up due to her mixed heritage). I don't necessarily think "letting go" can only be applied to breaking up, however. I don't like the title much, but letting go can be applied to simply taking your hands off the metaphorical wheel, giving up a bit of control, etc. Letting go in life, relinquishing the illusion of having absolute power over everything that happens to you, and taking things as they come, it could even be applied (in my fantasy land) to Mariah letting go and allowing vocal imperfections for the sake of a raw, honest, truthful sound. At least my ideal is that the theme is more encompassing like that. And the idea of Mariah's music being lyrically repetitive is symptomatic of pop music in general I'm afraid, which is either focused on partying or breaking up/making up. Every artist ends up with a niche, or a theme to their career, and I'm okay with self-empowerment being Mariah's.

 

And NOT to throw shade, Luke, but we're all on a Celine Dion forum at the end of the day, and I don't think we're in it for her profundity and innovation. So I reckon it's okay to not have to be striving for those all the time; sometimes familiarity has great comfort and value.

I do feel that her maturity peaked with Butterfly and with Rainbow we saw a huge regression which has more or less continued since. And I do think she needs to be popular and go to #1 (probably as overcompensation for feeling marginalized growing up due to her mixed heritage). I don't necessarily think "letting go" can only be applied to breaking up, however. I don't like the title much, but letting go can be applied to simply taking your hands off the metaphorical wheel, giving up a bit of control, etc. Letting go in life, relinquishing the illusion of having absolute power over everything that happens to you, and taking things as they come, it could even be applied (in my fantasy land) to Mariah letting go and allowing vocal imperfections for the sake of a raw, honest, truthful sound. At least my ideal is that the theme is more encompassing like that. And the idea of Mariah's music being lyrically repetitive is symptomatic of pop music in general I'm afraid, which is either focused on partying or breaking up/making up. Every artist ends up with a niche, or a theme to their career, and I'm okay with self-empowerment being Mariah's.

 

And NOT to throw shade, Luke, but we're all on a Celine Dion forum at the end of the day, and I don't think we're in it for her profundity and innovation. So I reckon it's okay to not have to be striving for those all the time; sometimes familiarity has great comfort and value.

 

Ι was refering to what her fans think of Mariah. Pretty much the same can apply to Celine once her fans praise her innovation. That being said for every topic Mariah has tackled, Celine has tackled about 5 if we take into account her french material.

 

Thing is... we should bet on the content of Mariah's album! I really really believe we're getting break-up anthems.

[LukeD]

@LukeD, to me Mariah is an incredible songwriter. She writes beautiful lyrics. Which artists have better lyrics in your opinion. Cause honestly, I can only think of very few if it comes down to songwriting skills.

 

All this is subjective and leads nowhere. In my opinion, Celine has much better lyrics, especially in her french catalogue. She's tackled themes of poverty, racism, family bonds, motherhood, womanhood, social isolation, & universal love. She's even sung about woman abuse, spirituality, falling in love with a gay guy ( ) and fighting AIDS. Most of these ARE absent from Mariah's catelogue to date.

 

I think several songwriters do a better job than Mariah. Some of them sing as well. I can't give you many examples cause I listen to a limited amount of singers. I'd say though that Lara Fabian, Mylene Farmer, Jean-Jacques Goldman, Luc Plamondon, Michael Jackson are on higher level.

 

That being said, Mariah (in my opinion, again) is a smart songwriter, she knows how to create catchy tunes AND how to construct an album. However, she's both superficial and one-dimensional. Songs like ''Close my eyes'', ''Whenever you call'', ''My all'', ''Vanishing'', ''The roof'', ''Looking in'' are the exception to the rule, not the rule.

Edited June 19, 2013 at 11:29 PM by LukeD

[Si J'etais Quelqu'un]

This reporter is actually right. Beautiful flopped in Canada, Japan and in European countries

 

#15 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 isn't exactly what I would call a Hit. ''Obsessed'' might have reached #7 on the Billboard Hot 100 but nobody remembers this song now and it didn't even manage save her Memoirs Of An Imperfect Angel album from flopping hard.

 

First, I just wanted to say that, as an example, Give Your Heart A Break peaked at 16th on the Hot 100 last year, but it reached 6th on the airplay chart and finished in 39th place on the year-end Hot 100, which is a great position for a song that didn't make the top 15, let alone the top 10. So it's not always so that a song missing the top 10 paints the whole picture of what it did in the long run.

 

You'll get no argument from me that Obsessed is a forgotten hit and deserves to be one. I think that's one of her worst songs by far. But by this reporter's standards, that song was a hit single, and Beautiful has currently amassed roughly 80% of what Obsessed was doing airplay-wise at its peak. It should also be noted that Billboard's rules have changed just this year and factors like YouTube video plays and streams now play a hand in a song's placement on the Hot 100. This doesn't mean Beautiful would suddenly be 4th place without those changes, but it should be taken into account.

 

Like I said, I don't know what will happen next week or the week after, and I admitted in my response to her that the song has not peaked at #1 in 30 countries, and it annoys me when press releases make stuff up like that. But my big problem was that her tone is that of someone who clearly is pressed at Mariah, has already decided that the song is a bomb even in America, and is making certain bits of information do what she needs them to do, like saying it "stalled" in fifteenth place when it just reached that position after climbing a few more rungs this past week. We'll see what happens and if the advance stops here, then it stops here. Like I said on the page, It's Like That peaked at 16th on the charts and it was her best solo performance in years, and while it wasn't a top ten smash hit wonder, it set the stage for a great year for Mariah. I'm not saying "Oh well, Beautiful is a top 20 hit so that means Mariah is about to have the top selling album of 2013." I've seen a lot of criticism of Mariah and I can handle it and I can get behind and understand many of the critiques, because I've made them myself. This particular piece just reads ugly to me and it drips with personal malice. It's like "I don't like Mariah Carey so I'm going to write an 'article' basically because I want to ridicule her."

[Si J'etais Quelqu'un]

Ι was refering to what her fans think of Mariah. Pretty much the same can apply to Celine once her fans praise her innovation. That being said for every topic Mariah has tackled, Celine has tackled about 5 if we take into account her french material.

 

Thing is... we should bet on the content of Mariah's album! I really really believe we're getting break-up anthems.

 

Luke, I'm not a gambling man! I never take chances with my money. On my way to work today I actually thought about my reply and I knew you'd mention Celine's French material. It made me consider doing a thread that proposes: "instead of praising Celine for being so eclectic with themes in her French music, shouldn't we be asking why she never extends that creative ambition to her much more widely exposed (and marketable) English career?" Like I said, I think it's an issue that extends itself to the whole of English pop music in general, that it's like 57% relationship songs, 28% party songs, and 15% sex songs, which I don't consider to be 'relationship-related' because the singers often don't mean it that way either. And Mariah is likely to stick to this format because, at the end of the day, she wants to sell albums, it's important to her, I think she equates this with belonging and feeling accepted in the world. Would that be too bad if it were the case? Yeah, but it's like with Celine's English material - if there are some good melodies and good singing, we can handle it.

[Bell]

In my opinion, Celine has much better lyrics, especially in her french catalogue. She's tackled themes of poverty, racism, family bonds, motherhood, womanhood, social isolation, & universal love. She's even sung about woman abuse, spirituality, falling in love with a gay guy ( ) and fighting AIDS. Most of these ARE absent from Mariah's catelogue to date.

 

Only in her French catalogue, I'd say. Yes, most of Celine's French songs have great lyrics but she doesn't write them. Mariah writes her own lyrics so I think these two shouldn't be compared. Anyway, you're right, it's subjective, it's all a matter of taste. People are different so they like different things. It's normal.

[Yangedd]

@Yangedd, Through The Rain was a top 10 hit in various European countries like the Netherlands, the UK, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Italy...

 

Although she usually has her biggest hits in the US, this time it only went up to #81 on the HOT 100.

I never understood why it was a bigger hit in Europe. I really love this song.

The video is my most favorite MC video ever.

 

I didn't know it was a hit in the UK Ray. I only discovered the song yesterday. Listened to it a few times again this morning.

[LukeD]

Only in her French catalogue, I'd say. Yes, most of Celine's French songs have great lyrics but she doesn't write them. Mariah writes her own lyrics so I think these two shouldn't be compared. Anyway, you're right, it's subjective, it's all a matter of taste. People are different so they like different things. It's normal.

 

Comparing their english material, they are pretty much on the same level in terms of lyrical content. Celine has sung about motherhood, universal love which Mariah hasn't and Mariah has sung about partying and introspection (I hope this word is valid in english!) which Celine hasn't. In my opinion, most Celine songs have a climax (in terms of lyrics) though which Mariah lacks many times. If you pay close attention to the second verse of Mariah's songs you see that she usually repeats the message of the first verse using different words. For example:

 

''Now you want to be free

So I'm letting you fly

Cause I know in my heart babe

Our love will never die''

 

and then

 

''If you're determined to leave booy

I will not stand in your way

But inevitably you'll be back again

Cause ya know in your heart babe

Our love will never end''

Edited June 21, 2013 at 03:43 AM by LukeD

[Bell]

Comparing their english material, they are pretty much on the same level in terms of lyrical content.

 

True.

[Yangedd]

Celine has a passion that Marish lacks because Celine has been through a lot more emotionally than her.

[Bell]

Celine has a passion that Marish lacks because Celine has been through a lot more emotionally than her.

I'd say Mariah is not that much of a live performer. Celine just seems to enjoy being on stage and interacting with her audience a lot more than Mariah. Maybe this is the 'passion' you're talking about. I don't think Mariah is less emotional than Celine. Maybe Celine is just more expressive.

Edited June 21, 2013 at 12:19 PM by Bell

[Yangedd]

I'd say Mariah is not that much of a live performer. Celine just seems to enjoy being on stage and interacting with her audience a lot more than Mariah. Maybe this is the 'passion' you're talking about. I don't think Mariah is less emotional than Celine. Maybe Celine is just more expressive.

 

Forgive me. I seem to have phrased that wrong. I didn't mean to insinuate that Mariah is less emotional. That came out wrong. You are right though. Celine is a lot more expressive when it comes to emotiona, although I have seen Mariah to cry before a performance. Sorry once again

[Si J'etais Quelqu'un]

I don't think lack of emotion in her life is why Mariah is not a good stage performer. I wouldn't want to have gone through a lot of what Mariah has had to go through, myself. But if you look at her record, she did like 6 concerts for the Music Box Tour, Maybe like 8 for Daydream, maybe a dozen for Butterfly, etc. Celine has done THOUSANDS of concerts. She grew up on stage, she learned what worked for her and what didn't, she got comfortable on the stage real quickly so that, by the time she was a big star and people were coming to see her, she had a show to give them. People make jokes about some of Celine's bombastic mannerisms when she's performing, but that's her signature, and people know it when they see it. She also trained her voice for the daunting calisthenics of a live concert where you're flying across the stage, and she knows how to be physically dynamic without winding herself.

 

Mariah's most commanding moments on-stage happened when she stood at the mic and barely moved. It's awkward to watch her more often than not because even walking across the stage looks weird and uncomfortable to her. She just has zero stage charisma because she's so inexperienced. She was a studio kid and Celine was a stage kid. By the time Mariah started performing for audiences, she was an established star and they were there to see her. She never had to win over a crowd, and that matters. Celine could probably talk about what it's like to have to sing over a drunken bar fight, whereas Mariah couldn't.

[Yangedd]

I don't think lack of emotion in her life is why Mariah is not a good stage performer. I wouldn't want to have gone through a lot of what Mariah has had to go through, myself. But if you look at her record, she did like 6 concerts for the Music Box Tour, Maybe like 8 for Daydream, maybe a dozen for Butterfly, etc. Celine has done THOUSANDS of concerts. She grew up on stage, she learned what worked for her and what didn't, she got comfortable on the stage real quickly so that, by the time she was a big star and people were coming to see her, she had a show to give them. People make jokes about some of Celine's bombastic mannerisms when she's performing, but that's her signature, and people know it when they see it. She also trained her voice for the daunting calisthenics of a live concert where you're flying across the stage, and she knows how to be physically dynamic without winding herself.

 

Mariah's most commanding moments on-stage happened when she stood at the mic and barely moved. It's awkward to watch her more often than not because even walking across the stage looks weird and uncomfortable to her. She just has zero stage charisma because she's so inexperienced. She was a studio kid and Celine was a stage kid. By the time Mariah started performing for audiences, she was an established star and they were there to see her. She never had to win over a crowd, and that matters. Celine could probably talk about what it's like to have to sing over a drunken bar fight, whereas Mariah couldn't.

 

I hope I didn't cause this

[Ray]

@LukeD

Celine has great songs, true. That's why I'm a huge fan. BUT her songs are written by different people. Celine herself is not one of my favorite songwriters. She is of course one of my favorite singers.

Mariah did write most of her songs herself. And yes, it's all about taste. My French is not good enough to agree with you on Lara, Mylene, etc. Although I do own all CD's by Lara and Mylene and love them as artists. The only English singing artist you name is Michael Jackson. He's also someone I collect. Still, he's not among my favorite songwriters. Favorites of mine are: Mariah, Madonna, Babyface, Diane Warren, David Foster to name a few.

 

You would love to hear Mariah sing about: poverty, racism, family bonds, motherhood, womanhood, social isolation, universal love, woman abuse, spirituality, falling in love with a gay guy and fighting AIDS. You claim Mariah doesn't write about most of these topics. However, Mariah did write about poverty, racism, family bonds, social isolation, universal love, woman abuse, spirituality. So most of these themes she DID cover.

 

 

Lyrics written by Mariah I love especially (for different reasons):

Vision Of Love, I Don't Wanna Cry, Sent From Up Above, Love Takes Time, Emotions, Can't Let Go, Make It Happen, So Blessed, The Wind, Anytime You Need A Friend, Never Forget You, Underneath The Stars, I Am Free, Looking In, Butterfly, Fourth Of July, Close My Eyes, Outside, Can't Take That Away, Petals, Rainbow, Through The Rain, Circles, Migrate, Bye Bye, I Wish You Well, Betcha Gon' Know, It's A Wrap, More Than Just Friends, Imperfect, 100%, Almost Home and many more.

[Bell]

Forgive me. I seem to have phrased that wrong. I didn't mean to insinuate that Mariah is less emotional. That came out wrong. You are right though. Celine is a lot more expressive when it comes to emotiona, although I have seen Mariah to cry before a performance. Sorry once again

No need to feel sorry, we are all here to share opinions and that's what we do. It's all OK.

[Yangedd]

Is Glitter worth a watch? I'm asking because I'm intrigued and want to have a watch.

[Ray]

Is Glitter worth a watch? I'm asking because I'm intrigued and want to have a watch.

 

I realy liked it. But I love these kind of 'music movies'.

It can be best compared to Double Platinum (starring Diana Ross and Brandy). Although I prefer Double Platinum to Glitter.

But I like both.

Other music movies I like: Crossroads (Britney), Burlesque (Xtina), The Bodyguard (Whitney), Dick Tracy (Madonna).

[LukeD]

@LukeD

Celine has great songs, true. That's why I'm a huge fan. BUT her songs are written by different people.

 

You would love to hear Mariah sing about: poverty, racism, family bonds, motherhood, womanhood, social isolation, universal love, woman abuse, spirituality, falling in love with a gay guy and fighting AIDS. You claim Mariah doesn't write about most of these topics. However, Mariah did write about poverty, racism, family bonds, social isolation, universal love, woman abuse, spirituality. So most of these themes she DID cover.

 

 

Your first comment is redundant cause I already made it clear that Celine doesn't write her own songs in my comments above. I don't understand why you had to clear this out again as if I was implying the opposite. Moreover, if we shouldn't compare these ladies in terms of lyrical content (with the flawed argument that one of them doesn't write her songs), then why did you compare them in your next paragraph?

 

If you notice I said ''MOST of these topics are absent from Mariah's catalgue''. In facts, 1 song (or 2) from each of these topics doesn't add variety to Mariah's (or anyone's) lyrics. Celine has full length albums around motherhood, womanhood, family bonds and a good portion of ''S'il suffisait d'aimer'' is about racism. Hence I mentioned these topics. Her 1991 album alone showcased an impeccable variety: commercialism (Des mots qui sonnent), cruelty of the world (Le monde est stone), isolation (Oxygene, Je Danse Dans Ma Tete, Les Uns Contre Les Autres), vanity and regret (Le Blues Du Businessman), hope to those who suffer from Aids (L'amour existe encore). I mentioned ''universal love'', since Celine sang ''Une colombe'', ''Let's talk about love'', ''Where is the love'', ''S'il suffisait d'aimer'', ''In some small way''. As we said earlier they pretty much tie when we compare their english material. However, if one brings up Celine's francophone catalogue, then for every 1 topic Mariah tackled, Celine has tackled 5.

 

I don't want to come off as hater or anything, so I'll close my comment saying that maybe there are better singers than Mariah and better songwriters too, but I don't think there's an artist who surpasses Mariah in BOTH areas, and that's huge!

Edited June 23, 2013 at 03:37 AM by LukeD