The gay issues thread

[Célinefull]

If you had have said "We should all respect one another's opinions" I would have agreed 100% and I do respect everyone here, it was just the fact that you singled me out for having an opinion, then backflipped and said 'Sorry for having an opinion' when you said that I was disrespectful.

[babymonkey]

Lets see where to begin on this matter.... as a religious issue... people who call themselves Christians, are by the very definition of the word, followers of Christ's teachings. A lot of people seem to believe that Jesus would have condemned any homosexuals, that it was somehow sinful. What I'd suggest is that you read some of the teachings on which you bace your value system. He never mentioned homosexuality, he was never a fan of capitalism, he was humble and never sought personal gain, he was entirely opposed to war (it went against his most fundamental beliefs) and in reality he didn't really say very much in support of so called "normal" families.

 

For people who want to protect the "sanctity of marriage", a homosexual union is wrong. Why? Is it because two people of the same sex cannot love one another? Should they not perhaps take a brief look at divorce? Here is an issue that seems opposed to everything that they believe in. Should the "Defence of Marriage act" as it is called not have at least some mention of divorce, in that it is the one thing that thoroughly undermines the concept?

 

Sorry if the argument ain't particularly cohesive... I get angry about things I believe in...

 

Oh and in case y'all were wondering I'm not opposed to divorce but it is a valid argument nonetheless

[mazceline]

when i saw your name i though, "here we go". but every point you made i agreed, for a change, nicely wrote

[Adam868]

Celinefull, what is your name by the way so I can address you by your name if you'd like?

 

Secondly, I moved on which was suggested by mazceline, looks like you haven't.

But you are correct, I am sincerely sorry when I read over my post that I seemed to single you out, and you have my sincere direct apology. I didn't mean it to come out that way.

 

And the post after, I was upset about the "F***ing stupid" thing you said just as you were upset about what I said to you.

[VanMerlin]

Lets see where to begin on this matter.... as a religious issue... people who call themselves Christians, are by the very definition of the word, followers of Christ's teachings. A lot of people seem to believe that Jesus would have condemned any homosexuals, that it was somehow sinful. What I'd suggest is that you read some of the teachings on which you bace your value system. He never mentioned homosexuality, he was never a fan of capitalism, he was humble and never sought personal gain, he was entirely opposed to war (it went against his most fundamental beliefs) and in reality he didn't really say very much in support of so called "normal" families.

 

For people who want to protect the "sanctity of marriage", a homosexual union is wrong. Why? Is it because two people of the same sex cannot love one another? Should they not perhaps take a brief look at divorce? Here is an issue that seems opposed to everything that they believe in. Should the "Defence of Marriage act" as it is called not have at least some mention of divorce, in that it is the one thing that thoroughly undermines the concept?

 

Sorry if the argument ain't particularly cohesive... I get angry about things I believe in...

 

Oh and in case y'all were wondering I'm not opposed to divorce but it is a valid argument nonetheless

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I very much like your brain, Babymonkey. Dude, you've got great logic!!

[Célinefull]

Celinefull, what is your name by the way so I can address you by your name if you'd like?

 

Secondly, I moved on which was suggested by mazceline, looks like you haven't. 

But you are correct, I am sincerely sorry when I read over my post that I seemed to single you out, and you have my sincere direct apology.  I didn't mean it to come out that way.

 

And the post after, I was upset about the "F***ing stupid" thing you said just as you were upset about what I said to you.

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No, I just haven't been here for a couple of days, so I only came back and read the posts today, so I hadn't had a chance to reply yet.

 

To expand on what I was saying before. You have to look at the reasons why our modern, western societies have chosen to be secular; that reason being it can be dangerous for a society to live to a set of rules that are often, as I know (because I go to a Catholic school and we learn these things) Religious truths that are not supposed to be taken literally, but actually are to act as inspiration and as stories to teach people things.

 

Examples like the Salem witch trials and modern Islamic states show us that we can't force millions of people to believe the same things, because we don't behave like that. I believe that the best thing for us to do is let people find their own paths and to be as inclusive and supportive in the laws that we choose to uphold.

 

Applying that belief to this arguement, I can't understand any reason other than a religious one that a gay marriage should be banned, which is fundamentally wrong in a secular society, that is where I am coming from. The main problem that happens when a society is controlled by a religious power, is that everything else (commerce, trade, education) becomes unimportant, and the government gets so enthralled in religious activities that they forget that a country needs more than morality to operate, that is the danger.

 

@Babymonkey; It's not the bible, but rather the Pope and the Vatican that dictate that sex, without the possibility of reproduction; is wrong. That is why they are against birth control and homosexuality.

[babymonkey]

@Babymonkey; It's not the bible, but rather the Pope and the Vatican that dictate that sex, without the possibility of reproduction; is wrong. That is why they are against birth control and homosexuality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand that but my reasoning is also levelled at our religious leaders (who's lifestyles Jesus again would not have approved of) who are supposed to teach the word of Christ. They do anything but. I was born and raised a Catholic, I have since reverted to atheism, but I still follow the teachings of Christ. I believe in what he did for the world, I believe that the moral values he set down for us still should hold true today.

 

The vatican is a bloated, self righteous, fatuous dinosaur that needs another reformation to bring it back to its roots and into the 21st century (I know it sounds like a contradiction in terms but let me explain). Christianity really needs to rediscover what it was originally set up to do... Basically it all comes down to respect for one another. Whether that be for their religious beliefs, their political leanings, their sexuality.... whatever.

 

For a little further reading I'd refer everyone to the Universal Declaration of Human rights... namely

 

Article 6.

 

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

 

Article 7.

 

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

The right to marriage is also there, though I'm not a huge fan of the wording as it is open to interpretation... anyway you can read for yourselves... UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights

[mazceline]

oh god we are all right in our minds we will never agree i believe were born that way others say we are pure evil or sinners we will never agree guys x x x x x

[Obst]

@Babymonkey; It's not the bible, but rather the Pope and the Vatican that dictate that sex, without the possibility of reproduction; is wrong. That is why they are against birth control and homosexuality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand that but my reasoning is also levelled at our religious leaders (who's lifestyles Jesus again would not have approved of) who are supposed to teach the word of Christ. They do anything but. I was born and raised a Catholic, I have since reverted to atheism, but I still follow the teachings of Christ. I believe in what he did for the world, I believe that the moral values he set down for us still should hold true today.

 

The vatican is a bloated, self righteous, fatuous dinosaur that needs another reformation to bring it back to its roots and into the 21st century (I know it sounds like a contradiction in terms but let me explain). Christianity really needs to rediscover what it was originally set up to do... Basically it all comes down to respect for one another. Whether that be for their religious beliefs, their political leanings, their sexuality.... whatever.

 

For a little further reading I'd refer everyone to the Universal Declaration of Human rights... namely

 

Article 6.

 

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

 

Article 7.

 

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

The right to marriage is also there, though I'm not a huge fan of the wording as it is open to interpretation... anyway you can read for yourselves... UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have marked these lines to show up how right you are. I totaly agree here. Catholic Church is way nehind with the mentality and reformation. They need an entire 'revolution' to make it fit for 21st century. And to make my post on topic, I'll add that among their things that should be changed it also the atitude towards gay community.

 

Among the catholic priests are hundreds of gay and the changing must start from them to the rest, until it will finaly reach the Vatican itself. The revolutionary ideas are spreading like fire into the hits of summer but nothing things to change this masive block of stone, entitled 'Vatican' and its stubbeness will finaly bring its end. The world is changing and so should Vatican if they wanna re-become an important piece of this world. Otherwise it will collapse and nothing, nor anybody will be able to rebuild it once more..not even with the most revolutionary concepts.

 

All in all, I want to end up by saying that those who don't accept gay people because of the Bible, they simply refuse to use their brain and think for themselves if this is weather good or not. If Vatican wants to survive, so its religion, they must start change someting and the attiute towards gay people would be a good step. However, today mostly of us accept them already.

[Célinefull]

I agree with both of you, and at the risk of making this thread into a religious arguement...homosexuality is just one of the reasons that has the modern vatican becoming more and more extreme and out of touch.

[babymonkey]

Woo! People agree with me! Makes a change! This is an area I feel strongly about. Not for any specific personal reason. I just firmly believe that everyone, of evey creed and colour deserves to have their basic human rights protected.

 

As a friend of mine always says, If you don't agree with something, don't do it but respect the rights of others to do it. It's the same argument with censorship. If you don't like something shown on tv, turn it off. If you don't like violent rap music, don't listen to it... If you don't like the thought of gay people, don't think about them...

[mazceline]

I was talking with my friends here and im shocked and upset at the realisation of what people might do when they find out your gay, example, simply end a friendship, or worse feel as though you are a threat to there children, i can not believe that just because you are gay, you are like a disease or a danger, its really sad to think of that..

[mazceline]

Edited July 29, 2006 at 10:50 AM by mazceline

[celinedionsfan]

It's very sad ...

[smw]

This thread is great! Reading it is like reading a documentary or something. I'm glad that SOME of us can discuss this topic in an adult fashion....

 

What people have to realize in today's world is that no one can change someone else's opinion. Yes, we can give our own opinion...and hope that we make an impact...but we have to respect everyone.

 

As far as my personal opinion, I am completely open to all relationships. As long as there is healthy love and a happy existence.

[celinesounds]

What i think about them ? I love them

And if i have any gay friend ? Yes, a lot. They are very cool!

I'm gay

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[mazceline]

mmm

[Célinefull]

This thread is great! Reading it is like reading a documentary or something.    I'm glad that SOME of us can discuss this topic in an adult fashion....

 

What people have to realize in today's world is that no one can change someone else's opinion. Yes, we can give our own opinion...and hope that we make an impact...but we have to respect everyone.

 

As far as my personal opinion, I am completely open to all relationships. As long as there is healthy love and a happy existence. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm glad that you enjoyed SOME of our opinions, I also hope you read the whole thread, I had to, it's beneficial

[mazceline]

It is interesting on how people cope with it or how other people think about gay people, like i said before no one will ever agree, thats what makes the world more interesting after all...

[celinerific]

I don't care wether someone's straight, bisexual, or just gay. I'll love someone for who they are. My friend Michelle hates gay people. She told me once that she liked the people in general, but she hates the fact that they've chosen a life to be gay... I just think that if you like the person in general, and being gay is part of who they are, you should totally accept them. I just don't understand her sometimes.. Oh well.

[mazceline]

thats why we are all different , different oppinions, and views are what keeps us all going

[celinerific]

yep

[kathyc25]

I was just curious...Is any one here of homosexual orientation? I`m a lesbian...I wanted to know if there was anyone else?

[kathyc25]

oops! After I posted my topic I saw this thread Well I love gay people, being that I am...some of my best guy friends are gay. They can be quite bitchy sometimes though lol. Sorry guys. Of course Lesbians have crazy stigmas attached to them as well...I do NOT wear flannel!

[catwomanrrr]

oops! After I posted my topic I saw this thread  Well I love gay people, being that I am...some of my best guy friends are gay. They can be quite bitchy sometimes though lol. Sorry guys. Of course Lesbians have crazy stigmas attached to them as well...I do NOT wear flannel! 

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LOL

 

I wear flannels!!!

[kathyc25]

LOL! right on sister

[catwomanrrr]

LOL! right on sister 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who said I was a sister!?!?

[spookystarbuck]

Yes. Well, I think.

Still unsure, but you know that whole "closeted" thing, that's me. *blushes*

[spookystarbuck]

Gah, what happened. My post has suddenly appeared here and I don't think it really makes sense in just the "random" context in which it now appears.

 

Anyhoo, yeh I'm fine with people whatever. I'd be a bit of a sh!te if I said I hated gay/bi individuals 'coz like...well, I do loves me women

[celinerific]

Ah well. All opinions are welcomed