New Las Vegas residency show!

[couldawouldashoulda]

Yeah - Resorts World feels the same as AEG. Get vaccinated or stay out.

[brendanm999]

UPDATE 9/23/2021: The Theatre at Resorts World box office just said today that attendees are NOT required to be vaccinated, but that masks will be required for all attendees for Celine’s November shows. So happy to see that Resorts World does not plan to discriminate against their customers, and wants to keep everyone safe with a mask requirement! Edited September 23, 2021 at 06:50 PM by brendanm999

[Nmj]

UPDATE 9/23/2021: The Theatre at Resorts World box office just said today that attendees are NOT required to be vaccinated, but that masks will be required for all attendees for Celine’s November shows. So happy to see that Resorts World does not plan to discriminate against their customers, and wants to keep everyone safe with a mask requirement!

 

Yes we’ll it’s kinda hard to require the vaccine in venue that’s on a property of a casino/resort that doesn’t require it.

[AdrienneM]

UPDATE 9/23/2021: The Theatre at Resorts World box office just said today that attendees are NOT required to be vaccinated, but that masks will be required for all attendees for Celine’s November shows. So happy to see that Resorts World does not plan to discriminate against their customers, and wants to keep everyone safe with a mask requirement!

 

I fail to see how a vaccine requirement has anything to do with discrimination, when the only possible area where it could be seen as discriminatory is for those who medically cannot have it, who are not required to and are exempt from mandates... I still fail to see how anyone can see people’s safety being a priority, as discrimination towards those who have no consideration for the health and well-being of those around them

[brendanm999]

I fail to see how a vaccine requirement has anything to do with discrimination, when the only possible area where it could be seen as discriminatory is for those who medically cannot have it, who are not required to and are exempt from mandates... I still fail to see how anyone can see people's safety being a priority, as discrimination towards those who have no consideration for the health and well-being of those around them

The two, otherwise healthy people I know who lost their lives after receiving the vaccine didn't have medical exemptions; neither did a few of my friends (young, male and female aged 19-24) who were rushed to the hospital with myocarditis after receiving a vaccine dose. I understand that many people (including myself) lost people they love to this virus, but you should try to put yourself in the shoes of those who have lost people to the vaccine or have witnessed scary, life-threatening side effects. Nonetheless, medical/religious exemptions are assessed on a case-by-case basis and aren't always granted. Mask wearing and/or requiring proof of a negative COVID test are more efficient ways of protecting audience members. I wear 3 masks or an FDA-approved N95 whenever I'm out in public or around large crowds. Many vaccinated people I know think that's no longer necessary. To suggest that unvaccinated people "have no consideration for the health and well-being of those around them" is pointedly false and fallacious. Yes, there are irresponsible unvaccinated people, but there are irresponsible vaccinated people too. Resorts World clearly understands this, which is why they are requiring mask wearing in their venue for all attendees. Edited September 23, 2021 at 07:20 PM by brendanm999

[couldawouldashoulda]

I just got the opposite information from the concierge for their Genting Rewards members - of which I am one. (It got me 50% off of a room and was free to join so I figured why not?)

 

Resorts World itself doesn't require vaccination to enter the resort; however, to get into the Resorts World Theater, Proof of Vaccination will be required or a negative Covid test within 72 hours. The audience will also be required to be masked.

 

I wouldn't suggest anyone show up unvaccinated or without a negative Covid test. You very well may not be allowed inside to see Celine's show.

Edited September 23, 2021 at 07:36 PM by couldawouldashoulda

[brendanm999]

I just got the exact opposite information from the concierge for their Genting Rewards members - of which I am one. (It got me 50% off of a room and was free to join so I figured why not?)

 

Resorts World itself doesn't require vaccination to enter the resort; however, to get into the Resorts World Theater, Proof of Vaccination will be required or a negative Covid test within 72 hours. The audience will also be required to be masked.

 

I wouldn't suggest anyone show up unvaccinated or without a negative Covid test. You very well may not be allowed inside to see Celine's show.

I did the same thing; it's the only way to justify staying there lol. Not sure how you got "exact opposite" information because that's the same information I received and just shared... They're not requiring proof of vaccination for everyone, but are accepting proof of a negative PCR test within 72 hours of the show for unvaccinated ticketholders. Edited September 23, 2021 at 07:41 PM by brendanm999

[Céline RO]

Not sure how you got "exact opposite" information because that's the same information I received and just shared... They're not requiring proof of vaccination for everyone, but are accepting proof of a negative PCR test within 72 hours of the show for unvaccinated ticketholders.

 

You forgot to mention the PCR bit. People will not be able to walk in with just a mask and nothing else, which is what was understood from your original post.

[couldawouldashoulda]

I did the same thing; it's the only way to justify staying there lol. Not sure how you got "exact opposite" information because that's the same information I received and just shared... They're not requiring proof of vaccination for everyone, but are accepting proof of a negative PCR test within 72 hours of the show for unvaccinated ticketholders.

 

You actually didn't say anything about negative test. Only that they weren't requiring vaccines and that they are requiring masks.

 

From your original post: "The Theatre at Resorts World box office just said today that attendees are NOT required to be vaccinated, but that masks will be required for all attendees for Celine’s November shows."

 

So just a miscommunication between us it seems.

[brendanm999]

You forgot to mention the PCR bit. People will not be able to walk in with just a mask and nothing else, which is what was understood from your original post.

You actually didn't say anything about negative test. Only that they weren't requiring vaccines and that they are requiring masks.

 

From your original post: "The Theatre at Resorts World box office just said today that attendees are NOT required to be vaccinated, but that masks will be required for all attendees for Celine’s November shows."

 

So just a miscommunication between us it seems.

 

You're both correct. This is why I told them they should send an email to all ticketholders or post an update on their social media because people are confused. I'm not supposed to be the PR person haha.

Edited September 23, 2021 at 07:54 PM by brendanm999

[brendanm999]

delete Edited September 23, 2021 at 07:48 PM by brendanm999

[couldawouldashoulda]

You're both correct. This is why I told them they should send an email to all ticketholders or post an update on their social media because people are confused. I'm not supposed to be the PR person haha.

 

 

So true! As with all things Covid, everything is confusing because there's no national policy. States and cities and corporations are all free to make their own rules which just leaves everyone unsure of what they need to enter a place.

[PuraVida]

Not to be too political, but I think overlapping authorities are almost always a huge mistake.

 

You have AEG/Resorts World/the Vegas Strip/Clark County/State of Nevada/USA federal government and any other one that I missed.

 

This is why clear, succint, national state or federal authority is so crucial. That's also why the pandemic has been such a mess.

[AdrienneM]

The two, otherwise healthy people I know who lost their lives after receiving the vaccine didn't have medical exemptions; neither did a few of my friends (young, male and female aged 19-24) who were rushed to the hospital with myocarditis after receiving a vaccine dose. I understand that many people (including myself) lost people they love to this virus, but you should try to put yourself in the shoes of those who have lost people to the vaccine or have witnessed scary, life-threatening side effects. Nonetheless, medical/religious exemptions are assessed on a case-by-case basis and aren't always granted. Mask wearing and/or requiring proof of a negative COVID test are more efficient ways of protecting audience members. I wear 3 masks or an FDA-approved N95 whenever I'm out in public or around large crowds. Many vaccinated people I know think that's no longer necessary. To suggest that unvaccinated people "have no consideration for the health and well-being of those around them" is pointedly false and fallacious. Yes, there are irresponsible unvaccinated people, but there are irresponsible vaccinated people too. Resorts World clearly understands this, which is why they are requiring mask wearing in their venue for all attendees.

 

Incredibly long rant of medical jargon; please do feel free to skip. I’ve left it under a spoiler tag to prevent clogging the page. To that end I also won’t be replying to any quote replies cause this thread has seen enough mess, clogging and bickering for everyone’s stomachs I think.

 

 

 

Myocarditis is a condition which is often ongoing for months before the eventual finality of cardiac arrest, or heart failure, with the primary causes being due to severe viral or bacterial infection or autoimmune disease. Myocarditis (and pericarditis, a “sister” issue) Is one that almost overwhelmingly affects young men specifically, and is a cardiovascular issue which isn’t a spur of the moment development... it’s usually one which is an underlying issue for months if not years due to being often dismissed as chest pains (angina), chronic asthma or another’s cardio or breathing related issue. In fact, studies by Canadian and British institutions have found that the mRNA compound within the vaccine seems only to exacerbate pre-existing inflammation of the heart, due to the vaccine being intense on the immune system and it’s development of antibodies. It is a shame and truly sad that your friends have ended up suffering due to cardiovascular inflammations, but the cause of this wasn’t the vaccine; it simply exacerbated already present conditions, which wouldve had the same, if not far worse effects had they ended up with acute respiratory covid... the BMJ also noting that the observance of the 16 out of 10,000 doses in young men where myocarditis or myopercarditis was a noted issue, 80% of said individuals had histories of issues with cardiovascular inflammation, or family history of cardiovascular weakness or disease... all of this to essentially say that the idea of spreading information about the extremely rare side effects to a population, specifically of young people, who are ending up hospitalised, dying, and with life altering long-covid is irresponsible, and any hesitancy due to issues like cardiovascular ones, should be taken up with your doctor (and often are). And at no point did I say vaccinated people were not to blame for issues; they absolutely are. I think both full vaccination and masks should be required for all attendees because vaccination alone, at least with current rates of it, doesn’t have the efficacy rate to eliminate the risk of covid transmission alone. Preferably I’d like to see implementation of vaccination, negative testing and masks, but I know that’s never going to happen, so I’d rather take the safest two options from the three in combination with each other. But you cannot deny, that an absolutely overwhelming amount of people who are unvaccinated, without valid exemption, are both selfish and irresponsible. You just can’t.

 

 

 

[PuraVida]

Also, a show that was serious about lowering health risk would actually make their policies incredibly clear and would have all 4 RW performers post on their social media about the policy.

 

They are keeping it vague intentionally I believe, whether they feel good about doing so or not. Due to uncertainty and liability and a PR move, I think.

[brendanm999]

Incredibly long rant of medical jargon; please do feel free to skip. I've left it under a spoiler tag to prevent clogging the page. To that end I also won't be replying to any quote replies cause this thread has seen enough mess, clogging and bickering for everyone's stomachs I think.

 

 

 

Myocarditis is a condition which is often ongoing for months before the eventual finality of cardiac arrest, or heart failure, with the primary causes being due to severe viral or bacterial infection or autoimmune disease. Myocarditis (and pericarditis, a "sister" issue) Is one that almost overwhelmingly affects young men specifically, and is a cardiovascular issue which isn't a spur of the moment development... it's usually one which is an underlying issue for months if not years due to being often dismissed as chest pains (angina), chronic asthma or another's cardio or breathing related issue. In fact, studies by Canadian and British institutions have found that the mRNA compound within the vaccine seems only to exacerbate pre-existing inflammation of the heart, due to the vaccine being intense on the immune system and it's development of antibodies. It is a shame and truly sad that your friends have ended up suffering due to cardiovascular inflammations, but the cause of this wasn't the vaccine; it simply exacerbated already present conditions, which wouldve had the same, if not far worse effects had they ended up with acute respiratory covid... the BMJ also noting that the observance of the 16 out of 10,000 doses in young men where myocarditis or myopercarditis was a noted issue, 80% of said individuals had histories of issues with cardiovascular inflammation, or family history of cardiovascular weakness or disease... all of this to essentially say that the idea of spreading information about the extremely rare side effects to a population, specifically of young people, who are ending up hospitalised, dying, and with life altering long-covid is irresponsible, and any hesitancy due to issues like cardiovascular ones, should be taken up with your doctor (and often are). And at no point did I say vaccinated people were not to blame for issues; they absolutely are. I think both full vaccination and masks should be required for all attendees because vaccination alone, at least with current rates of it, doesn't have the efficacy rate to eliminate the risk of covid transmission alone. Preferably I'd like to see implementation of vaccination, negative testing and masks, but I know that's never going to happen, so I'd rather take the safest two options from the three in combination with each other. But you cannot deny, that an absolutely overwhelming amount of people who are unvaccinated, without valid exemption, are both selfish and irresponsible. You just can't.

 

Likewise, I don't want to clog up this thread with debate, and you don't have to respond, but I want to point out how you contradicted yourself in your post. You said the cause of Myocarditis wasn't the vaccine, but that it exacerbated a preexisting heart condition. If the vaccine exacerbated the preexisting condition which led to Myocarditis, it was the vaccine that triggered the Myocarditis... Moreover, hesitancy that arises due to family history of heart problems does not qualify for a medical exemption in most cases. I agree that many people are unvaccinated because of misinformation, but many people who are unvaccinated for the reasons you felt were just (family history, heart problems) would still be denied entry under your ideal policy, which by your logic in your previous post, would constitute discrimination. It is clear that you are educated and are referring to credible sources for your information, which is admirable in these times, but your logic is inconsistent.

 

[brendanm999]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR UNVACCINATED TICKETHOLDERS:

You MUST fill out and present this exemption form upon entry to the show in addition to providing proof of a negative molecular, PCR or antigen COVID-19 test taken within 72 hours of entry.

 

"Anyone who requests such accommodation (for themselves or their minor child or ward) will be required to (1) complete and sign the form below, (2) bring the form to the event, and (3) bring evidence of a negative COVID-19 test result (molecular, PCR or antigen) that was administered by an official testing center to the event. Test results must be dated no more than 72 hours prior to entry. Home testing kit results will not be accepted for entry."

 

Download Form: https://aegwebprod.b...equest_Form.pdf

Edited September 23, 2021 at 09:00 PM by brendanm999

[Alex_Incognito]

The more vaccinated, the better. Let's end this damn pandemic.

 

I also find it fascinating that she hasn't booked any dates into 2022. What gives?

Edited September 23, 2021 at 09:08 PM by Alex_Incognito

[brendanm999]

The more vaccinated, the better. Let's end this damn pandemic.

 

I also find it fascinating that she hasn't booked any dates into 2022. What gives?

She has shows booked Jan 19-Feb 5, 2022, and the remaining Courage Tour dates from March 9-September 24, 2022.

[CelinesDIVO5]

UPDATE 9/23/2021: The Theatre at Resorts World box office just said today that attendees are NOT required to be vaccinated, but that masks will be required for all attendees for Celine’s November shows. So happy to see that Resorts World does not plan to discriminate against their customers, and wants to keep everyone safe with a mask requirement!

 

It is not discriminatory to mandate vaccines. The United States has been doing this for pandemics since forever ago. This one just happened to become political because people are f*cking crazy and social media just fuels everyone to voice every stupid thing they think, even if it goes against facts. Misinformation is very dangerous, and implying that a mandate is discriminatory is misinformation.

Edited September 23, 2021 at 10:45 PM by CelinesDIVO5

[CelinesDIVO5]

The two, otherwise healthy people I know who lost their lives after receiving the vaccine didn't have medical exemptions; neither did a few of my friends (young, male and female aged 19-24) who were rushed to the hospital with myocarditis after receiving a vaccine dose. I understand that many people (including myself) lost people they love to this virus, but you should try to put yourself in the shoes of those who have lost people to the vaccine or have witnessed scary, life-threatening side effects. Nonetheless, medical/religious exemptions are assessed on a case-by-case basis and aren't always granted. Mask wearing and/or requiring proof of a negative COVID test are more efficient ways of protecting audience members. I wear 3 masks or an FDA-approved N95 whenever I'm out in public or around large crowds. Many vaccinated people I know think that's no longer necessary. To suggest that unvaccinated people "have no consideration for the health and well-being of those around them" is pointedly false and fallacious. Yes, there are irresponsible unvaccinated people, but there are irresponsible vaccinated people too. Resorts World clearly understands this, which is why they are requiring mask wearing in their venue for all attendees.

 

I think vaccines and masks should be required. I’m vaccinated and I still wear my masks on public transit and in overcrowded areas.

[CelinesDIVO5]

I just got the opposite information from the concierge for their Genting Rewards members - of which I am one. (It got me 50% off of a room and was free to join so I figured why not?)

 

Resorts World itself doesn't require vaccination to enter the resort; however, to get into the Resorts World Theater, Proof of Vaccination will be required or a negative Covid test within 72 hours. The audience will also be required to be masked.

 

I wouldn't suggest anyone show up unvaccinated or without a negative Covid test. You very well may not be allowed inside to see Celine's show.

 

Exactly. Broadway is also requiring both masks and vaccines as well. This should be a practice for all live entertainment venues.

[couldawouldashoulda]

Exactly. Broadway is also requiring both masks and vaccines as well. This should be a practice for all live entertainment venues.

 

I think all venues in NYC are doing that. I was at 54 Below twice last week and they required proof of vaccination, a photo ID with the same name, and that we wear masks when not eating/drinking. It's just the smart thing to do right now.

[nuts2you]

can you still buy tickets to any of her shows at the BOXOFFICE , night of the shows

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

I think all venues in NYC are doing that. I was at 54 Below twice last week and they required proof of vaccination, a photo ID with the same name, and that we wear masks when not eating/drinking. It's just the smart thing to do right now.

 

Not every place is requiring masks. Movie theaters certainly aren’t. Bars holding drag shows or live bands are not. I think it would be much safer right now to do so.

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

Likewise, I don't want to clog up this thread with debate, and you don't have to respond, but I want to point out how you contradicted yourself in your post. You said the cause of Myocarditis wasn't the vaccine, but that it exacerbated a preexisting heart condition. If the vaccine exacerbated the preexisting condition which led to Myocarditis, it was the vaccine that triggered the Myocarditis... Moreover, hesitancy that arises due to family history of heart problems does not qualify for a medical exemption in most cases. I agree that many people are unvaccinated because of misinformation, but many people who are unvaccinated for the reasons you felt were just (family history, heart problems) would still be denied entry under your ideal policy, which by your logic in your previous post, would constitute discrimination. It is clear that you are educated and are referring to credible sources for your information, which is admirable in these times, but your logic is inconsistent.

 

 

 

What she is saying is that the vaccine did not cause your friends’ condition, and that had they gotten Covid, the suffering would have been much worse for them. It is unfortunate that this condition is not considered for medical exemption, as it is often misdiagnosed for something else, and I am truly sorry that your friends suffered from pre-existing conditions that couldn’t be caught in time.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 at 11:07 PM by CelinesDIVO5

[brendanm999]

 

 

It is not discriminatory to mandate vaccines. The United States has been doing this for pandemics since forever ago. This one just happened to become political because people are f*cking crazy and social media just fuels everyone to voice every stupid thing they think, even if it goes against facts. Misinformation is very dangerous, and implying that a mandate is discriminatory is misinformation.

Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, but I think that’s a silly way to dampen the meaning of “dangerous misinformation.” Expressing an opinion about whether vaccine mandates are discriminatory is not spreading misinformation, and it’s certainly not dangerous. We have bigger problems if either is the case. We know that there have been tons of false, conspiracy theories that have no factual basis that have persuaded people to not get vaccinated. Those conspiracy theories should be considered dangerous misinformation. You’re mistaken if you think that an opinion is dangerous misinformation.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 at 11:23 PM by brendanm999

[brendanm999]

 

 

 

What she is saying is that the vaccine did not cause your friends’ condition, and that had they gotten Covid, the suffering would have been much worse for them. It is unfortunate that this condition is not considered for medical exemption, as it is often misdiagnosed for something else, and I am truly sorry that your friends suffered from pre-existing conditions that couldn’t be caught in time.

 

I appreciate that. Luckily, they all recovered in a few days, which is common with Myocarditis. You’re right that they likely would’ve suffered significantly from COVID-19 if they reacted that way to the vaccine, but the reality is that they never got COVID-19, and they maybe never would have, and it should be up to the individual to assess their condition and whether the vaccine is right for them. Public health matters, but all 3 of my friends who had Myocarditis were unaware that they had any preexisting conditions, so they didn’t question whether the vaccine could harm them. If they had known, and chose not to get vaccinated, I hope that they would still be allowed to see Celine even if they were unvaccinated and couldn’t get a medical exemption. Luckily, Resorts World has decided that they will allow people who have to face these difficult decisions to attend Celine’s show (with a negative COVID test), which I think is great, and only right.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 at 11:34 PM by brendanm999

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, but I think that’s a silly way to dampen the meaning of “dangerous misinformation.” Expressing an opinion about whether vaccine mandates are discriminatory is not spreading misinformation, and it’s certainly not dangerous. We have bigger problems if either is the case. We know that there have been tons of false, conspiracy theories that have no factual basis that have persuaded people to not get vaccinated. Those conspiracy theories should be considered dangerous misinformation. You’re mistaken if you think that an opinion is dangerous misinformation.

 

 

 

Mandates (when being imposed on EVERYONE) not being discriminatory is a fact, not an opinion. Seatbelts are mandates. Not driving drunk is a mandate. Smoking and drinking ages are mandates. And they go for everyone. If you don’t wear a seatbelt, you get a ticket. If you drive drunk, you go to jail. Smoking and drinking ages are because it’s been proven that people under those ages cannot make mature and responsible decisions regarding those activities (although it can be argued for older people as well). Venues implementing vaccine mandates as required by the companies they’re possessed by is not discriminatory. Based on numbers and science; it is currently the best and most responsible option to keep people safe in the middle of a public health crisis. Masks should also be mandated as there is still the possibility of spread.

 

Now, the majority of people not being vaccinated are also anti-maskers. And vaccinated people wearing masks is to protect those who are not vaccinated in the event that’s a vaccinated person gets Covid, and could then spread it to someone who is not vaccinated. Which could possibly result in the death of that person. If people don’t want to be vaccinated, they run the risk of not being able to participate in certain things as a means of protecting the public. My point is, it is not discriminatory to take the matter of public health seriously, and to put mandates and guidelines in place in order to protect EVERYONE.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 at 11:41 PM by CelinesDIVO5

[brendanm999]

 

Mandates (when being imposed on EVERYONE) not being discriminatory is a fact, not an opinion. Seatbelts are mandates. Not driving drunk is a mandate. Smoking and drinking ages are mandates. And they go for everyone. If you don't wear a seatbelt, you get a ticket. If you drive drunk, you go to jail. Smoking and drinking ages are because it's been proven that people under those ages cannot make mature and responsible decisions regarding those activities (although it can be argued for older people as well). Venues implementing vaccine mandates as required by the companies they're possessed by is not discriminatory. Based on numbers and science; it is currently the best and most responsible option to keep people safe in the middle of a public health crisis. Masks should also be mandated as there is still the possibility of spread.

 

Now, the majority of people not being vaccinated are also anti-maskers. And vaccinated people wearing masks is to protect those who are not vaccinated in the event that's a vaccinated person gets Covid, and could then spread it to someone who is not vaccinated. Which could possibly result in the death of that person. If people don't want to be vaccinated, they run the risk of not being able to participate in certain things as a means of protecting the public. My point is, it is not discriminatory to take the matter of public health seriously, and to put mandates and guidelines in place in order to protect EVERYONE.

 

 

It might help if I break it down for you why this is an opinion. By the way, I completely respect yours, but disagree.

 

The following quotes are from the Wikipedia article on Discrimination (forgive me for using Wikipedia):

 

"Discrimination is the act of making unjustified distinctions¹ between human beings based on the groups, classes, or other categories to which they are perceived to belong²."

 

"It involves restricting members of one group from opportunities or privileges that are available to members of another group."

 

¹Unjustified distinction: Barring ticketholders from entering the venue

²other categories to which they are perceived to belong: unvaccinated against COVID-19

 

Your examples of seatbelts and drunk driving laws* don't involve distinctions based on groups, classes, or other categories. They are not examples of discrimination for that reason. The example of legal drinking age laws involves a distinction based on age group, so one could argue that it is discriminatory. However, I would argue that the distinction is clearly justified by comprehensive statistics, and the vast majority of the public (at this point in time) accepts that.

 

Since we can disagree over whether requiring proof of vaccination to enter the venue is justified, the statement that requiring proof of vaccination is discriminatory is an opinion. Moreover, the opposing opinion which you expressed is not a fact, and cannot be a fact because one can argue whether the distinction is justified. Your opinion that AEG's original vaccine policy (not being enforced as written) did not constitute discrimination would only be a fact if it didn't involve different treatment based on a person's group affiliation. Not to mention, a huge portion (some surveys suggest a majority) of the U.S. population, including many vaccinated people, think the distinction is unjustified, unlike your drinking age example where it's a social norm. I'm admitting that my statement is an opinion, and I respect yours, but it's incorrect to suggest that my opinion is misinformation and that yours is a fact. You can argue that it is not discrimination, and there are ample statistics and resources to build your argument, but that doesn't make it a fact. I can do the same, and it still won't be a fact.

 

*for the most part; state laws vary and often have stricter penalties for underage drivers, so this one can possibly be argued.

 

Edited September 24, 2021 at 03:08 AM by brendanm999