Courage World Tour - EU shows CANCELED

[Lu CelineFan]

You should have waited a few more minutes lol. Mine are uploading now.

 

Im back home from the show now. I feel dead tired and am in bed. I hope they'll upload while im asleep lol.

 

Show was great. Crowd was into it. I hated that everyone sat down and lost interest at the start of tous les blues but by the end everyone was back on their feet lol. I like how she introduced the song. She sounded great. Yes courage she started before scott. IYAMT sounded better.

 

As for catwalks...batb and bylm she spends on one and abm the other. I noticed in the first quebec city show she spent some time during the medley on both catwalks but not now.

 

Tyler, I have to thank you for all the great videos you've been uploading. And thank you so much for zooming Kaven. I very appreciate it

[LukeD]

And no, her TCWT didn't mean any step forward artistically, besides including her umpteenth file of covers (as she's doing today in the Courage tour, nine years later).

Covers? Seriously? During TCWT Celine sang plenty of old original songs and new songs from Taking Chances. 10 out of16 album tracks were actually sung during the tour. And she experimented with a variety of music genres as well. Soft rock, ballads, dance, soul - all in one concert that flowed very well. On top of that the tour had a clear focus on visuals and choreography, elements that were not always a given. Not to mention that her confidence in terms of performing really showed. Like it or not TCWT is a milestone in her career.

 

Just take a look at her Live A Paris DVD or FIY DVD, and then watch TCWT DVD and tell me that she did not develop as an artist. Insane to even think about it.

Edited October 21, 2019 at 06:38 PM by LukeD

[Javito]

I said and I quote so that I avoid being told that I twist words: We all know that these facts had a tremendous impact on her professional life.

 

 

 

Love how you separate the private life from the professional when Celine has been married to her manager. Just an example of how the personal and the professional have chronically been intertwined in the most obvious way in her case. I could go on and talk about stability and Vegas, songs reflecting her family life, giving up on her honey-moon to perform Think Twice, how her music now focuses on themes of loss, and so on.

 

I think any person with above average IQ can understand how her professional development and career choices are shaped to a considerable extent by her personal life.

 

So? I never questioned that And yet, that has nothing to do with being creative, for God's sake!! What does that exactly have to do to find a mixture of Vegas+2017+2018 tours today in her Courage tour??? You mean her personal struggle with René's loss prevents her in some kind of extent to create a medley of her own original songs and forces her to fill in all covers? Or you mean you're simply too shortsighted as always to understand what people write here and deviate and take your own conclusions, like you're doing now???

 

So maybe all songwriters out there when they loss their husband or wife, they stop writing their own songs and immediately resort to covers because their artistic capacities are gone?

 

As always, your twisting is ultimately stupid No master Luke, anyone with an average IQ is able to understand that I said what I said, which is a perception that her artistic ambitions are always very limited and confined to playing in the same comfort zone. Something which has been discussed and talked in this forum by dozens of fans since ages ago. But your own personal hatred against me and continous attacking to twist what I say and interpret your own thing in order to ridicule me, doesn't allow you to understand anything

[couldawouldashoulda]

 

 

So if you are not a songwriter, but God gave you one of the best voices in the world, how can it be a waste of talent to focus on what you are good at, singing and performing? Becoming one of the greatest live artists ever? Even more when all focus from the whole music industry is in concerts and shows? Changing the concept of live entertainment and residencies forever? How can it be a waste of talent to rebuild your image to keep being relevant after more than 30 years of English career making more songwriters and producers wanting to work with you at the level that you can’t stop receiving songs for your new album?

 

If you don't like or don't approve on 90% of what an artist does or how that artist is handling her career, then you definitely shouldn’t be on a fan forum. Is like if a join Mariah Carey’s forum because I love a couple of songs, that doesn’t make me a fan if all the rest she does just makes me angry or biter.

 

 

I fail to see how ANDHC is more cohesive than other English albums or what’s the concept behind. An album with songs like Rain Tax, Super love and at the same time covers like At Least or Nature Boy. TCOML, FIY or CD albums are much more cohesive than ANDHC. Same with most of her French albums.

 

PREACH!!

[Javito]

So if you are not a songwriter, but God gave you one of the best voices in the world, how can it be a waste of talent to focus on what you are good at, singing and performing? Becoming one of the greatest live artists ever? Even more when all focus from the whole music industry is in concerts and shows? Changing the concept of live entertainment and residencies forever? How can it be a waste of talent to rebuild your image to keep being relevant after more than 30 years of English career making more songwriters and producers wanting to work with you at the level that you can’t stop receiving songs for your new album?

 

If you don't like or don't approve on 90% of what an artist does or how that artist is handling her career, then you definitely shouldn’t be on a fan forum. Is like if a join Mariah Carey’s forum because I love a couple of songs, that doesn’t make me a fan if all the rest she does just makes me angry or biter.

 

 

I fail to see how ANDHC is more cohesive than other English albums or what’s the concept behind. An album with songs like Rain Tax, Super love and at the same time covers like At Least or Nature Boy. TCOML, FIY or CD albums are much more cohesive than ANDHC. Same with most of her French albums.

 

Because being one of the greatest live performers ever doesn't make you one of the greatests live artists ever. It's not that hard to understand the difference

 

And no, not all the songwriters are asking to work with Celine, because probably the majority of them have just been asked to write to her a song, like she has admitted she usually does with the songwriters and artists she likes. And of course some others send her songs to be recorded by Celine, or the next artist on their list if the first one refuses the song. They earn their living for that

 

LOL at you manu. Again. Nobody brought ANDHC here, and yet YOU brought that topic again an instilled a hatred you have against me just for liking an album. Great. This just speaks volumes of you and the extended opinion that many fans already have that you and your friends simply have an apathy and hatred against another member for just passionately liking something. Amazing! Great.

 

Yes, ANDHC is one of her most coherent and cohesive albums she has recorded, and not because I say this, many fans have said this same opinion by now in countless posts and petitions when asked how we would like her next English album to be. You fail to see it has a concept? Manu! I thought you have some more knowledge and common sense about music albums! I can't explain you that, but yes, it has a concept from start to end, something other albums of hers simply doesn't. But this is not the ANDHC album thread. Go there if you want to vent your hatred of a fan liking that album, not here.

 

Anyway, you're going to explode yourself with all that anger accumulated if you don't move on from that lol. Same as your friend master Luke. You both need to release all that hatred against me, somehow!

Edited October 21, 2019 at 06:56 PM by Javito

[LukeD]

So? I never questioned that And yet, that has nothing to do with being creative, for God's sake!! What does that exactly have to do to find a mixture of Vegas+2017+2018 tours today in her Courage tour??? You mean her personal struggle with René's loss prevents her in some kind of extent to create a medley of her own original songs and forces her to fill in all covers? Or you mean you're simply too shortsighted as always to understand what people write here and deviate and take your own conclusions, like you're doing now???

 

So maybe all songwriters out there when they loss their husband or wife, they stop writing their own songs and immediately resort to covers because their artistic capacities are gone?

 

As always, your twisting is ultimately stupid No master Luke, anyone with an average IQ is able to understand that I said what I said, which is a perception that her artistic ambitions are always very limited and confined to playing in the same comfort zone. Something which has been discussed and talked in this forum by dozens of fans since ages ago. But your own personal hatred against me and continous attacking to twist what I say and interpret your own thing in order to ridicule me, doesn't allow you to understand anything

You are having very serious problems if you think I need to twist anything. What I clearly said since my first post is that if we want to objectively critique her career choices we need to consider the context in which these were made. Otherwise, we are being biased.

 

Celine is different than the songwriters in your example. Last time I checked we are getting an album of 20 original songs. And her current set-list consists of original songs. Including a bad medley which I dislike as well does not mean she lost artistic ambition. You are chaotic.

Edited October 21, 2019 at 06:59 PM by LukeD

[Javito]

Covers? Seriously? During TCWT Celine sang plenty of old original songs and new songs from Taking Chances. 10 out of16 album tracks were actually sung during the tour. And she experimented with a variety of music genres as well. Soft rock, ballads, dance, soul - all in one concert that flowed very well. On top of that the tour had a clear focus on visuals and choreography, elements that were not always a given. Not to mention that her confidence in terms of performing really showed. Like it or not TCWT is a milestone in her career.

 

Just take a look at her Live A Paris DVD or FIY DVD, and then watch TCWT DVD and tell me that she did not develop as an artist. Insane to even think about it.

 

"and new songs from Taking Chances. 10 out of16 album tracks were actually sung during the tour." And what is she supposed to sing during the Taking Chances Tour? The Unison album? Don't make us laugh more, please

 

Of course she sang several songs from the album, that was EXACTLY what she was supposed to do, when she named a tour after that brand new album But that doesn't mean she went to the artistic way. She did what she was supposed to do, and yet she included a bunch of absolutely random covers that she could have saved including more of her own old/unknown songs. Or a medley of her own old English songs like the Au coeur du stade French medley in 1999. THAT is going artistic and creating something with your own work.

Edited October 21, 2019 at 07:01 PM by Javito

[LukeD]

Because being one of the greatest live performers ever doesn't make you one of the greatests live artists ever. It's not that hard to understand the difference

 

Anyway, you're going to explode yourself with all that anger accumulated if you don't move on from that lol. Same as your friend master Luke. You both need to release all that hatred against me, somehow!

Because singing and performing are not ART right? You are an ignorant.

 

And you are not important enough to be hated. We simply tend to be allergic to bullshit. Post rational things and you will get 0 negative reactions. Trust me.

[Jay718]

 

 

Let’s Talk About Love? Where Is the Love?

 

Yes! Where is the love would be awesome!!!

 

 

[LukeD]

"and new songs from Taking Chances. 10 out of16 album tracks were actually sung during the tour." And what is she supposed to sing during the Taking Chances Tour? The Unison album? Don't make us laugh more, please

 

Of course she sang several songs from the album, that was EXACTLY what she was supposed to do, when she named a tour after that brand new album But that doesn't mean she went to the artistic way. She did what she was supposed to do, and yet she included a bunch of absolutely random covers that she could have saved including more of her own old/unknown songs. Or a medley of her own old English songs like the Au coeur du stade French medley in 1999. THAT is going artistic and creating something with your own work.

Considering that even 6 songs could represent an album well, she did more than enough. Also visuals, choreography, performing, variety of genres were all there.

 

Once again. Watch her mid-90s DVDs and then the TCWT DVD and tell me she did not evolve artistically. She is literally a different artist. Feels like I am saying that the sky is blue.

[maria_k]

I see New Debate Has Come in this thread haha

 

I just have a question: does someone know if there is some symbolism in that red wristband Celine wears in the ABTD? were there any casualties if people fought for that?

[Javito]

You are having very serious problems if you think I need to twist anything. What I clearly said since my first post is that if we want to objectively critique her career choices we need to consider the context in which these were made. Otherwise, we are being biased.

 

And that is because you said so, I suppose? That is because you have always the last word on everything, the last right judgement on every discussion in this forum, and the ultimate judgement to say what is valid and what's not??? Your arrogance is unlimited man

 

Celine is different than the songwriters in your example. Last time I checked we are getting an album of 20 original songs. And her current set-list consists of original songs. Including a bad medley which I dislike as well does not mean she lost artistic ambition. You are chaotic.

 

Including a bad medley you even admit to dislike means exactly that lots of fans abhore this medley because she's unable to do it with her OWN SONGS. And that directly links to the point me (and many others before) have been losing my evening time exposing here: that her artistic direction is nowhere to be seen when she does a show and puts a setlist together.

 

Do we start with the multiple countless comments of people criticising You Are The Voice being again on this tour (instead of one of her own songs), same as the medley of random covers? Or shall we leave this to another day when you recover some sense and less hatred?

[AdrienneM]

So i guess the 2016 and 2017 tours dont exist then? Are you conveniently forgetting their existence?

[LukeD]

LOL at you manu. Again. Nobody brought ANDHC here, and yet YOU brought that topic again an instilled a hatred you have against me just for liking an album. Great. This just speaks volumes of you and the extended opinion that many fans already have that you and your friends simply have an apathy and hatred against another member for just passionately liking something. Amazing! Great.

You brought it up! In the previous page! :sofunny: Alongside DCP and 1F&4T as examples of coherent, concept albums! I seriously can't.

[Javito]

Because singing and performing are not ART right? You are an ignorant.

 

And you are not important enough to be hated. We simply tend to be allergic to bullshit. Post rational things and you will get 0 negative reactions. Trust me.

 

No. Because singing and performing different setlist, albums and projects one at a time is an art. Repeating and copying the same program of songs being in Vegas, after Vegas in Hyde Park, and now during a tour of a new album, which ONLY includes TWO new songs from that album but it includes up to SIX new covers, that is definitely not artistic

 

And you say what is rational and irrational here, in this forum right? We got that, master Luke, you have the ultimate wisdom and good judgement to silence everybody here. We got it...

[LukeD]

And that is because you said so, I suppose? That is because you have always the last word on everything, the last right judgement on every discussion in this forum, and the ultimate judgement to say what is valid and what's not??? Your arrogance is unlimited man

 

 

 

Including a bad medley you even admit to dislike means exactly that lots of fans abhore this medley because she's unable to do it with her OWN SONGS. And that directly links to the point me (and many others before) have been losing my evening time exposing here: that her artistic direction is nowhere to be seen when she does a show and puts a setlist together.

 

Do we start with the multiple countless comments of people criticising You Are The Voice being again on this tour (instead of one of her own songs), same as the medley of random covers? Or shall we leave this to another day when you recover some sense and less hatred?

To obtain a balanced understanding of phenomena you need to examine these in the context in which they emerge. Ask any social scientist. These scientific rules can be applied to any type of situation. You see someone yelling on the streets. Before you make the assumption they suffer anger management issues, you need to ask if something actually happened to them that could potentially explain said reaction. It is about the context. It is not about me being arrogant. Maybe it is about you being an ignorant?

 

To say that a bad medley means she lost artistic ambition is an extremely chaotic assumption. I said it earlier. I say it again. No twist whatsoever. Simple as.

Edited October 21, 2019 at 07:20 PM by LukeD

[Javito]

So i guess the 2016 and 2017 tours dont exist then? Are you conveniently forgetting their existence?

 

No, I don't forget them, but I do apologise and you are right here: those were very artistic moves on her side, especially the 2016 tour, where she truly defended her own material in front of the public, for once.

 

Even the 2017 medley including Love Is All We Need showed a bit more effort on creating something out of her vast material (despite sharing the medley with Michael Jackson songs).

 

So yes, 2016 and 2017 tours were some of her best concerts in terms of creativity in the setlist. But now with Courage tour she has went several steps backwards in that sense

[LukeD]

 

And you say what is rational and irrational here, in this forum right? We got that, master Luke, you have the ultimate wisdom and good judgement to silence everybody here. We got it...

Sorry if my posts make you feel inferior. Cannot do anything about it. You do not have to call me master though. Luke is enough. I am a modest guy.

[Javito]

To obtain a balanced understanding of phenomena you need to examine these in the context in which they emerge. Ask any social scientist. These scientific rules can be applied to any type of situation. You see someone yelling on the streets. Before you make the assumption they suffer anger management issues, you need to ask if someone actually happened to them that could potentially justify said reaction. It is about the context. It is not about me being arrogant. Maybe it is about you being an ignorant?

 

To say that a bad medley means she lost artistic ambition is an extremely chaotic assumption. I said it earlier. I say it again. No twist whatsoever. Simple as.

 

I "don't say it". Lots of fans actually are sharing the same thoughts with that medley now Send us all to the social scientists

 

You know, you tend and you like (enjoy) personally attacking me, and always focusing on me when it's lots of people already saying what I said. Get real, leave some of your obsession and hatred against me, and then you'll find that even you yourself agree with many of the critics that have already been exposed here :giggle:Make some effort

[jpatdeleon09]

some members:

 

 

 

[Javito]

Sorry if my posts make you feel inferior. Cannot do anything about it. You do not have to call me master though. Luke is enough. I am a modest guy.

 

No, you're far from a modest guy. If you were a modest guy you wouldn't spend a whole evening attacking me and only me. Since at least 4/5 years ago. You're obsessed with bullying others.

 

If you were a modest guy, you wouldn't get to the point of insulting. You didn't need to call me moron up to 4 times in the same posts, and whatnot. Something you've easily done, coming back from silence to insult and personally attack again against the same member, simply because you cannot stand what others opine, and nobody does nothing here.

 

Far from modest!

Edited October 21, 2019 at 07:30 PM by Javito

[sarit_celine]

some members:

 

 

 

 

I just came back and there are already things going on between memebers, one can't share an opinion

without getting into a battle here. It takes out all the willing to debate here.

[Javito]

I just came back and there are already things going on between memebers, one can't share an opinion

without getting into a battle here. It takes out all the willing to debate here.

 

And who does start all those fights every day there's one? The same person as ever, joined by the same couple of his friends

Edited October 21, 2019 at 07:31 PM by Javito

[Ajax]

Not at all you are still anable to make a difference between what almost 99% of the people here said from the beginning ; that the set list was very questionable especially the medley. And the way you act.

 

Once again you don t understand the roots of all that: not your OPINION, but the way you spray it, the methods, every opportunity you take to adapt your same theories on every topic and killing it.

 

And finally here you are trying to make us believe that thanks to you us the people, got educated and realized the medley was not great?

 

I think we are more than you think to agree on some of your strong big theories and disappointment but we are even more to feel frustrated and annoyed by your methods.

Edited October 21, 2019 at 07:32 PM by Ajax

[LukeD]

I "don't say it". Lots of fans actually are sharing the same thoughts with that medley now Send us all to the social scientists

 

You know, you tend and you like (enjoy) personally attacking me, and always focusing on me when it's lots of people already saying what I said. Get real, leave some of your obsession and hatred against me, and then you'll find that even you yourself agree with many of the critics that have already been exposed here :giggle:Make some effort

Well you called me arrogant when there is scientific consensus as to how a balanced and objective understanding can be obtained. Not my fault.

 

Do I also need to remind you that you referred to other members in the first comment I quoted? Cause you always consider them in your comments? The ones who support Celine no matter what? You started it. Again. So take your own advice seriously. Calm down and stop being obsessed with the members who called you out.

[LukeD]

No, you're far from a modest guy. If you were a modest guy you wouldn't spend a whole evening attacking me and only me. Since at least 4/5 years ago. You're obsessed with bullying others.

 

If you were a modest guy, you wouldn't get to the point of insulting. You didn't need to call me moron up to 4 times in the same posts, and whatnot. Something you've easily done, coming back from silence to insult and personally attack again against the same member, simply because you cannot stand what others opine, and nobody does nothing here.

 

Far from modest!

If action was to be taken against offensive online behavior, then you should not be having Internet access. Get real.

[couldawouldashoulda]

Sorry if my posts make you feel inferior. Cannot do anything about it. You do not have to call me master though. Luke is enough. I am a modest guy.

 

I’ll call you Master. Okurrrrrrrrrr!

[Javito]

Scientific consensus? Where is it? Have we scientists here presenting a thesis about your study work of posting behaviours, or did I miss something?

 

Put it down soon, calm down, or people will start asking what the hell you're talking about now :mdr:

[Javito]

If action was to be taken against offensive online behavior, then you should not be having Internet access. Get real.

 

Ah, you mean that was when you were last blocked for repeated insulting and personal attacking to other member(s) in this forum? Get real

[LukeD]

I just came back and there are already things going on between memebers, one can't share an opinion

without getting into a battle here. It takes out all the willing to debate here.

Javito said in his comment to YOU and I copy/paste: '''But others will tell you that she is extremely successful because she sells out shows within hours of presale, and that's the only success they see ''

 

Do you see what your friend did here? Or do you want me to break it down? He is literally mocking people before they even said a thing! He is the instigator. He cannot even express his point of view without making a sarcastic remark against those who usually disagree with him. He always has to roll eyes to ignite s***. And once he gets what he asked for he plays the victim and accuses others of being obsessed with him. It is sickening.

 

And of course it will be mind-blowing if you still cannot see what I am showing you.