"Courage" album - Official Topic

[Javito]

I love when people who is not in the music industry talks about the music industry as they really know how it works... Even Madonna, MADONNA, says she doesn't feel like she's in control:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24HmH-usYxw

 

Minute 11:45

 

But I worked for the music industry before... and I keep working for record labels today I'm not talking for talking's sake here.

 

Key word in that paragraph: PROPOSING. If at the end of the day they said no, that would be that. They're in charge of her, like it or not. Shes arguably an employee, she had to sign a contract with them, not the other way around. If people like Madonna, Taylor, Barbra and Mariah still get dictated to and are told what they can and cant release, celine sure is

 

I wonder if people on this forum follow other artists... because a lot seems to think that her label has the final say on a lot of matters. This is not true.

 

 

Of course, there can be some disagreement, but not on number of songs. Before ( well still now on physical stuff) there was a limit because it had to fit on one cd.. but now ...

 

Céline is allowed to do whatever she wants to, I'm pretty sure of that. Especially since she's one of the biggest stars on earth.It's because she doesn't want to or have no idea what to do...

 

Even signed on major labels, other artists - less famous - have already talked about what they wanted to do or not,

Why they didn't include that song , etc...

 

THIS! Sometimes I wonder if fans here have been following closely other artists for years, or it's just Celine and what Celine does and they don't see beyond this case

The idea of painting Celine like a puppet in Sony's hands in 2019 is per se ridiculous, after almost 30 years with Sony Music family and having amassed millions and millions of money for them.

 

If Celine has recorded around 50 songs and goes to Sony's offices today and says "I want to release a 18-track album" or a double album, believe me, Sony WILL be more than happy to accept and do it. Especially when she has spent 6 years without releasing an English album.

 

Do you really think Sony Music hasn't been pushing every single year since 2014 to have a new album from Celine in English? They've been wanting one since 5 years ago at least.

 

Do you really think Celine wouldn't have a say in how many songs she wants to release, when she has the absolute power to keep Sony waiting and postponing this album for 3 years now???

 

Can't you see you're contradicting yourselves? This album has been delayed enough to exasperate the most patient music executives out there, when they were used to having a new Celine Dion album every two years not so long ago. Yes the music industry has drastically changed and they don't expect her to keep releasing albums every two years, but THIS album has been postponed at least three times since 2016. But the *fact* that Celine HERSELF has been postponing this album because she felt she wasn't ready to release it until it's perfect, this simply shows who is in charge now. This proves that at least in release dates, it's Celine who has her say, and not Sony anymore. She releases music only when she's ready. Had it been for Sony, God knows we would have had this album released by now, years ago. So if Celine decides WHEN this album will be released, she can also decide (and will do) how many songs she wants to be on it. Period.

 

So if Celine can keep Sony Music waiting for years to have an album ready to release only when she says so, are you gonna tell me she can't have her say on the number of tracks she wants on the album?? Deciding that she wants 2 or 3 more tracks on the album than what Sony would suggest?? LOL, that's totally absurd Other different thing is that she is not demanding enough or she doesn't want to decide on this aspect. But that's very different from saying "Sony decides", which in the case of Celine's career, it's simply ridiculous. SHE IS deciding now these things, for better timings or not, but she is the one who has delayed this album for years now, not Sony. She can also decide the songs she wants to deliver to the public

Edited September 5, 2019 at 05:02 PM by Javito

[Javito]

I think it works both ways.

Im sure Céline can 'demand' a bit more than others.

But I also believe that Sony just doesn't care anymore with her

 

It's a vicious circle I'd say, Sony isn't much interested in her anymore, and Celine is not interested in this aspects either (she's never been so far), so... the vicious circle continues and given that they never care to ask the fans what they really want... the vicious circle and the communication gap is even bigger

[Ajax]

You are so litteral, She says 12 as it could be 14 or 16. It's just a common way of talking about an album. Don't be so litteral.

 

Then, am I the only one who does not want to hear those 50 songs ? As a little mouse yes, otherwise I just want to hear an album, that's were the artistry happens, when you begin the selection. You need to build a project, identify why those songs all together can bring you to another level, can bring a new meaning etc.... I certainly do not want a compilation of 50 or even 30 songs, that doesn't make any sense at all.

 

And then, you have the management, something we call mid or long term plan. No one is aware on that ? You need to think on a long term, make sacrifice, identify what will be the market in 10 years, keep some stuff for later on, for when you will developp another chapter for example, build another image, or even think of the time after the artist's death. That's basic business no ? Not saying that Sony is doing all that good, not at all. I just don't understand how people would think they would hear 50 songs or even want to ? Or even think that it's something relevant.

[sarit_celine]

It's a vicious circle I'd say, Sony isn't much interested in her anymore, and Celine is not interested in this aspects either (she's never been so far), so... the vicious circle continues and given that they never care to ask the fans what they really want... the vicious circle and the communication gap is even bigger

 

The one thing that doesn't seem right is why would she

have to ask a plan from her management team to handle

the plenty songs she has been recording

in order to get more tracks for her fans,

while she has 6 whole years to do that LOL.

They are just joking at us

 

Anyway, what you wrote here that conclued pretty much everything.

[isurrender]

 

 

There absolutely can. Mariah wanted originally to have Daydream as a 6 track EP. She was told no. She wanted The Emancipation of Mimi to be a double album. Was told no. Madonna has repeatedly stated her artistry, amount of albums released and tracks on songs has been curbed and lets not even talk about Taylor Swifts debacle

 

TEOM came after 2 flops and on her new record company...

I don't know about TS subject but I do know that she was the one ( the first one?) not putting her records on streaming platforms.

I'm sorry but she fought with a full system on her own , so Céline asking if she can put more songs on her record is a joke. Especially since all of her previous albums have more songs.

 

Again, she doesn't want to. She wants to play with clothes and teasing us with "I recorded 48 songs but you'll only get 12" :-)

 

[Ajax]

Well, she is just telling that out of 50 songs they must do a selection, and it's hard.

 

Unbelievable really !

[AdrienneM]

 

 

TEOM came after 2 flops and on her new record company...

I don't know about TS subject but I do know that she was the one ( the first one?) not putting her records on streaming platforms.

I'm sorry but she fought with a full system on her own , so Céline asking if she can put more songs on her record is a joke. Especially since all of her previous albums have more songs.

 

Again, she doesn't want to. She wants to play with clothes and teasing us with "I recorded 48 songs but you'll only get 12" :-)

 

Two flops? Glitter came at an unfortunate time with 9/11 as its release date as well as her having a mental breakdown, those things were out of her control, Glitter still sold millions of copies and had a #2 hit in the US with Loverboy. Charmbracelet spawned one of her most successful tours and the album had a huge hit (Through The Rain) in Asia. Flops by Mariah Careys standards, but not flops in the grand scheme.

 

 

Taylor basically was robbed of the masters to her own music and then her ex-companies head sold her masters to someone who she detests for good reason (Scooter Braun). Taylor has said before her whole career however (apart from Lover) shes been dictated to and told what she can and cant produce

[ehild]

I don't know all of the ins and outs of record labels, or they would/wouldn't allow a certain # of songs (even if she has recorded 30 or something), etc. but if they say you can only have x- amount, you have the final say, that's what it'll be I'd imagine. I'm not getting excited for something until it actually happens. That way I can't be disappointed if there aren't 18 songs. Aside from a compilation or live album I've rarely heard of a regular album having that many songs.

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

But I worked for the music industry before... and I keep working for record labels today I'm not talking for talking's sake here.

 

 

 

 

 

THIS! Sometimes I wonder if fans here have been following closely other artists for years, or it's just Celine and what Celine does and they don't see beyond this case

The idea of painting Celine like a puppet in Sony's hands in 2019 is per se ridiculous, after almost 30 years with Sony Music family and having amassed millions and millions of money for them.

 

If Celine has recorded around 50 songs and goes to Sony's offices today and says "I want to release a 18-track album" or a double album, believe me, Sony WILL be more than happy to accept and do it. Especially when she has spent 6 years without releasing an English album.

 

Do you really think Sony Music hasn't been pushing every single year since 2014 to have a new album from Celine in English? They've been wanting one since 5 years ago at least.

 

Do you really think Celine wouldn't have a say in how many songs she wants to release, when she has the absolute power to keep Sony waiting and postponing this album for 3 years now???

 

Can't you see you're contradicting yourselves? This album has been delayed enough to exasperate the most patient music executives out there, when they were used to having a new Celine Dion album every two years not so long ago. Yes the music industry has drastically changed and they don't expect her to keep releasing albums every two years, but THIS album has been postponed at least three times since 2016. But the *fact* that Celine HERSELF has been postponing this album because she felt she wasn't ready to release it until it's perfect, this simply shows who is in charge now. This proves that at least in release dates, it's Celine who has her say, and not Sony anymore. She releases music only when she's ready. Had it been for Sony, God knows we would have had this album released by now, years ago. So if Celine decides WHEN this album will be released, she can also decide (and will do) how many songs she wants to be on it. Period.

 

So if Celine can keep Sony Music waiting for years to have an album ready to release only when she says so, are you gonna tell me she can't have her say on the number of tracks she wants on the album?? Deciding that she wants 2 or 3 more tracks on the album than what Sony would suggest?? LOL, that's totally absurd Other different thing is that she is not demanding enough or she doesn't want to decide on this aspect. But that's very different from saying "Sony decides", which in the case of Celine's career, it's simply ridiculous. SHE IS deciding now these things, for better timings or not, but she is the one who has delayed this album for years now, not Sony. She can also decide the songs she wants to deliver to the public

 

I love how people keep saying that this album has been “postponed” multiple times. There was never a set release date for this album. You also have to remember that the first time this album was even mentioned was in 2016, while Aldo was still Celine’s manager, and they said she was working on an album to HOPEFULLY be released in 2017. Of course things are going to change/ru off course when a manager leaves an artist. But there was never any definite plan for a date of release.

 

Regarding contracts...I believe that only a set number of albums are agreed upon, rather than frequency of releases. If Celine signs a 10 year contract with Sony, which states that within those 10 years, she must release 4 albums; then that’s that. She’s not keeping any record executives waiting for an album. The contract was signed by all parties, and as long as she delivers within the parameters of that contract, Sony couldn’t care less how often she releases an album. Celine just has to abide by what she signed. For example, if she signed a 10 year contract in 2009, and was required to deliver 4 studio albums (not counting compilations or live albums), then she’s fulfilled her contract.

 

2009: N/A

2010: N/A

2011: N/A

2012: Sans Attendre

2013: Loved Me Back To Life

2014: N/A

2015: N/A

2016: Encore Un Soir

2017: N/A

2018: N/A

2019: Courage

 

I’m not saying that this is the exact stipulation of her contract, I was just making an example.

[Ronny83]

https://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/skylar-grey-and-elliott-taylor-wrote-a-song-about-love-for-celine-dion/

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

Two flops? Glitter came at an unfortunate time with 9/11 as its release date as well as her having a mental breakdown, those things were out of her control, Glitter still sold millions of copies and had a #2 hit in the US with Loverboy. Charmbracelet spawned one of her most successful tours and the album had a huge hit (Through The Rain) in Asia. Flops by Mariah Careys standards, but not flops in the grand scheme.

 

 

Taylor basically was robbed of the masters to her own music and then her ex-companies head sold her masters to someone who she detests for good reason (Scooter Braun). Taylor has said before her whole career however (apart from Lover) shes been dictated to and told what she can and cant produce

 

Glitter was a huge flop, despite it’s unfortunate release date. It was critically panned on both the movie and the soundtrack. The single “Loverboy” did do well, but not well enough to support the soundtrack that it came from. The song basically stood alone as a single.

 

Charmbracelet, did a little better than Glitter, and was received by mixed to negative reviews. Most saying the album was not very exciting and that the songs were not bold enough. The lead single only peaked at number 81 on the US Hot 100.

Edited September 5, 2019 at 05:44 PM by CelinesDIVO5

[AdrienneM]

 

 

Glitter was a huge flop, despite it’s unfortunate release date. It was critically panned on both the movie and the soundtrack. The single “Loverboy” did do well, but not well enough to support the soundtrack that it came from. The song basically stood alone as a single.

 

Charmbracelet, did a little better than Glitter, and was received by mixed to negative reviews. Most saying the album was not very exciting and that the songs were not bold enough. The lead single only peaked at number 81 on the US Hot 100.

 

Glitter along with being a bad movie had alot of factors going against it, between the date, Mariahs stuggling mental health and being mocked for it as well as Tommy Mottola doing everything he could to eradicate her career. Still, Loverboy getting its placement was very impressive considering. Many critics actually reviewed the album later and found the album to be very solid and said it was unfairly maligned

 

Charmbracelet was (imo) ahead of its time. The very things critics didnt like about it (too many whispers, which she really didnt do on that album) were what they praised about TEOM and what critics LOOOOOVE now adays. The production of the songs were great and many critics adored her cover of Bringin On The Heartbreak (as did the original singer). The truth is, Critics comments often are hypocritical and dont reflect the opinion of the masses, Charmbracelet is a great album.

 

It still says alot considering they both still sold well over 2,000,000 world wide each.

 

She yet still had huge success with TEOM and had big success with E=MC2, 3 #1s in 3 years.

Edited September 5, 2019 at 06:05 PM by AdrienneM

[garyhollander]

Not surprisef with much these days. Is it a bad choice? Then they'll probably gonna do it.

I read that she is thinking of releasing a christmas album!!

[garyhollander]

At least she doesn't rely heavily on playbacks

She has just scored another hit that easily gets milions views on YT

and she is ALWAYS creative about anything related to her music.

I know one useless team that might have a lot what to learn from her!

Well Celine actually has songs that requier a lot of skill to sing.. and she has been in the music industry for about 4 decades Lana is a news artist. I respect her work but will never be in the same league sorry.

[garyhollander]

True but surely they know when other artists are planning to release? Like back in 2013 they just happened to release LMBTL directly against Eminem and he outsold her 10 to 1. Would you be shocked if they did something similar again?

Maybe thats why they havent released the date yet cause they are waiting to see if other big artists are coming in wiht surprise releases.

[Nmj]

Maybe thats why they havent released the date yet cause they are waiting to see if other big artists are coming in wiht surprise releases.

 

Maybe for once she should be that “other artist” and surprise us.

[CSCfan]

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[sarit_celine]

Well Celine actually has songs that requier a lot of skill to sing.. and she has been in the music industry for about 4 decades Lana is a news artist. I respect her work but will never be in the same league sorry.

 

That's true, I didn't write they were:)

[sarit_celine]

Maybe for once she should be that “other artist” and surprise us.

 

If her new material will be a blast I don't think there is need to wait and be scared checking when other artists will

have a new album out

[fred]

I'd prefer if she just focused on the new album for now.

 

 

I read that she is thinking of releasing a christmas album!!

[Céline RO]

I really have a feeling that this album will contain more songs than most of her older albums.

 

About the whole label argument:

 

1. If Sony really is controlling Céline’s career why would Céline always talk so nice of them and thank them and even recently go to their headquarters and write the things she wrote them. They’re certainly not bossy with her otherwise she would not be so nice and thankful to them.

 

2. If Sony were bossy to Céline, why wouldn’t Céline just leave? She doesn’t need Sony, Sony needs her. They’re the ones who should be doing everything Céline wants in order to not lose her. I’m sure there are plenty of other labels who would love to have her, she may not be getting huge hits anymore but her performing business is still huge and extremely profitable.

 

Also, Adrienne, let me remind you that the Scooter Braun who you seem to consider a horrible person went to Céline’s show, met her and was very friendly, he seemed to be a fan. He certainly seems like a nice guy to me and I certainly like him more than Taylor.

Edited September 5, 2019 at 07:09 PM by Céline RO

[rodrigo]

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[NEWS] In an exclusive interview with @Life_and_Style, singer-songwriter @SkylarGrey confirms she wrote @celinedion a song and that Céline has recorded it for her upcoming album 'Courage'! <3 We can't wait to hear it! #newalbum #courage #courageworldtour #celinedion #newmusic

 

https://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/skylar-grey-and-elliott-taylor-wrote-a-song-about-love-for-celine-dion/

Edited September 5, 2019 at 07:12 PM by rodrigo

[AdrienneM]

I really have a feeling that this album will contain more songs than most of her older albums.

 

About the whole label argument:

 

1. If Sony really is controlling Céline’s career why would Céline always talk so nice of them and thank them and even recently go to their headquarters and write the things she wrote them. They’re certainly not bossy with her otherwise she would not be so nice and thankful to them.

 

2. If Sony were bossy to Céline, why wouldn’t Céline just leave? She doesn’t need Sony, Sony needs her. They’re the ones who should be doing everything Céline wants in order to not lose her. I’m sure there are plenty of other labels who would love to have her, she may not be getting huge hits anymore but her performing business is still huge and extremely profitable.

 

Also, Adrienne, let me remind you that the Scooter Braun who you seem to consider a horrible person went to Céline’s show, met her and was very friendly, he seemed to be a fan. He certainly seems like a nice guy to me and I certainly like him more than Taylor.

 

So because he went and saw Celines show and “seemed nice” hes a good person? You have an extremely shallow perception of what a nice person is.

 

He along with Kanye West and Justin Bieber relentlessly bullied and harrased Taylor to the point where she had to get a temporary restraining order, making constant remarks about her, lying about her, recording a phone call between herself and Kanye and then leaking it after she asked him to not use a naked doll of her likeness in a music video... then, a year or two later after the order has expired, he buys her masters to her music off of her music companies boss and jokes about “owning her”.... so no, hes not a nice person. Thats the definition of horrible

Edited September 5, 2019 at 07:18 PM by AdrienneM

[Céline RO]

 

 

So because he went and saw Celines show and “seemed nice” hes a good person? You have an extremely shallow perception of what a nice person is.

 

He along with Kanye West and Justin Bieber relentlessly bullied and harrased Taylor to the point where she had to get a temporary restraining order, making constant remarks about her, lying about her, recording a phone call between herself and Kanye and then leaking it after she asked him to not use a naked doll of her likeness in a music video... then, a year or two later after the order has expired, he buys her masters to her music off of her music companies boss and jokes about “owning her”.... so no, hes not a nice person. Thats the definition of horrible

 

I don’t know him much and certainly was not interested in reading that whole Taylor story so I believe you now. Before you replied I was just gonna say how nice he is to Justin Bieber ������.

Edited September 5, 2019 at 07:25 PM by Céline RO

[fred]

And no dubbing over or lipping to the studio tracks!! So pointless. The thing here is to get it raw and alternative takes. That's what watching a recording session is all about. I am not sure what her team thinks they are for to be honest.

 

 

that would be like a dream come true! And we urgently need a DVD with an extended making of!

[ryba]

[NEWS] In an exclusive interview with @Life_and_Style, singer-songwriter @SkylarGrey confirms she wrote @celinedion a song and that Céline has recorded it for her upcoming album 'Courage'! <3 We can't wait to hear it! #newalbum #courage #courageworldtour #celinedion #newmusic

 

https://www.lifeands...or-celine-dion/

I don't know her (LOL, I'm talking like Mariah) Has she written some good stuff for someone in the past?

[Javito]

Glitter was a huge flop, despite it's unfortunate release date. It was critically panned on both the movie and the soundtrack. The single "Loverboy" did do well, but not well enough to support the soundtrack that it came from. The song basically stood alone as a single.

 

Charmbracelet, did a little better than Glitter, and was received by mixed to negative reviews. Most saying the album was not very exciting and that the songs were not bold enough. The lead single only peaked at number 81 on the US Hot 100.

 

And yet Glitter contains one of the best ballads of her discography, Lead The Way. Glitter was an album that wasn't understood at its time, but it got better with time. Same as happened with Celine's One Heart album

 

Oh but wait, am I in the Mariah Carey forum??? Yesterday I was in Lana Del Rey's forum

 

Am I?

 

Am I?

 

Am I? (Hyperventilating :sweat: )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Loup_garou]

I don't know her (LOL, I'm talking like Mariah) Has she written some good stuff for someone in the past?

 

She's quite versatile from Hip Hop songs like Eminem/Rihanna "Love the way you lie", Diddy's "Coming Home", Dance like Zedd's "Clarity", Her own material, to songs on the Aquaman and Fifty Shades Of Grey (with Moccio) soundtracks.

 

Edited September 5, 2019 at 08:32 PM by Loup_garou

[Nmj]

 

 

And yet Glitter contains one of the best ballads of her discography, Lead The Way. Glitter was an album that wasn't understood at its time, but it got better with time. Same as happened with Celine's One Heart album

 

Oh but wait, am I in the Mariah Carey forum??? Yesterday I was in Lana Del Rey's forum

 

Am I?

 

Am I?

 

Am I? (Hyperventilating :sweat: )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ONE HEART can be the flop in people’s mind but to me it’s more a piece of art than “Taking Chances”, “Loved Me Back To Life” and others...

 

“I know what love is” one of her most underrated ballads EVER!

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

Glitter along with being a bad movie had alot of factors going against it, between the date, Mariahs stuggling mental health and being mocked for it as well as Tommy Mottola doing everything he could to eradicate her career. Still, Loverboy getting its placement was very impressive considering. Many critics actually reviewed the album later and found the album to be very solid and said it was unfairly maligned

 

Charmbracelet was (imo) ahead of its time. The very things critics didnt like about it (too many whispers, which she really didnt do on that album) were what they praised about TEOM and what critics LOOOOOVE now adays. The production of the songs were great and many critics adored her cover of Bringin On The Heartbreak (as did the original singer). The truth is, Critics comments often are hypocritical and dont reflect the opinion of the masses, Charmbracelet is a great album.

 

It still says alot considering they both still sold well over 2,000,000 world wide each.

 

She yet still had huge success with TEOM and had big success with E=MC2, 3 #1s in 3 years.

 

TEOM was one of the single greatest comeback records EVER.