"One Heart" album - Official Topic

[LukeD]

Yes, but sales are one thing and the position you get in charts is other, as far as I know. You may see your sales decline, like everyone else in the business, but not your position in charts. And Céline did, and so badly, to the point that her singles don't even enter the charts in some countries today. Something unthinkable in Madonna's case. She (for better or worse) has still her new singles played everywhere and charting, with more or less luck, and when she releases a new single its still quite an event, no matter if she sells more or less than before And Madonna is older than Céline...

Are you joking? Actual sales matter and not peak positions. There are tons of Top 10 hits that decline and receive no certifications. Madonna is the exception, not the rule.

[Javito]

Well, in my case I learnt to appreciate these mistakes that I can only listen one unique version of them, than a thousand times that I've heard the "anymore" in All By Myself! Nice mistakes she does from time to time!

[amelie]

i think its a crime Je t'aime encore (english version) wasn't a single

[amelie]

The high belted note in 'Naked' sounds like a falsetto note because it is overmixed. There is nothing admiring about it from a technical standpoint. It is a mistake.

 

what is a mistake??

[LukeD]

what is a mistake??

Sounding like a chipmunk when you are supposed to belt a high note.

[amelie]

Sounding like a chipmunk when you are supposed to belt a high note.

 

i'm suddenly very tired! goodnight

[LukeD]

i'm suddenly very tired! goodnight

Sarcasm attempt ignored. Bye. Edited January 8, 2014 at 12:04 AM by LukeD

[Javito]

Sounding like a chipmunk when you are supposed to belt a high note.

 

I don't think that's the case. Sometimes the song needs to belt a high note, sometimes its just needless, and I think this song didn't need a high note in that part of the song. Just my two cents.

 

And also there's been examples in which a high note can ruin the song. In the song "In Some Small Way" for instance, when she sings the second chorus "but if we give a little, of our looooove away", I believe that change in her voice to the point of almost belting that "love" was totally unnecessary, too soon for it. A soft voice like she sang it in the first chorus would have been enough, just adding the background vocals. The high notes are for the climax of the song, not to be used all the time. But its just my view on this.

[Javito]

i'm suddenly very tired! goodnight

 

Sarcasm attempt ignored. Bye.

 

:mdr: Making friends you two eh, despite being compatriots?!

[LukeD]

I don't think that's the case. Sometimes the song needs to belt a high note, sometimes its just needless, and I think this song didn't need a high note in that part of the song. Just my two cents.

 

And also there's been examples in which a high note can ruin the song. In the song "In Some Small Way" for instance, when she sings the second chorus "but if we give a little, of our looooove away", I believe that change in her voice to the point of almost belting that "love" was totally unnecessary, too soon for it. A soft voice like she sang it in the first chorus would have been enough, just adding the background vocals. The high notes are for the climax of the song, not to be used all the time. But its just my view on this.

Cool and I agree that Celine many times turns out to be bombastic with her vocal performances, but I'm not talking about that here. I'm talking about the note itself and how it sounded. The part 'cause I trouble and shakiiiiing' was supposed to be belted and sound strong, but instead it came off falsetto-ish and weak, it is a really high note for Celine to belt (and for most singers too so no big deal). Edited January 8, 2014 at 12:13 AM by LukeD

[amelie]

:mdr: Making friends you two eh, despite being compatriots?!

 

i prefer to discuss voice and musical choices with ppl who actually know something about music rather than have announced what is a mistake from someone who doesn't

[LukeD]

i prefer to discuss voice and musical choices with ppl who actually know something about music rather than have announced what is a mistake from someone who doesn't

LOL. Last time 2 or 3 people came for you for saying women do not have falsetto. Can you even tell what note is the note we are now discussing? (''trouble and shaking'')...?

[LukeD]

Funny how one asks direct questions to an 'ignorant' and then announces he only talks with knowledgeable people. Ah, these contradictions... Edited January 8, 2014 at 01:24 AM by LukeD

[amelie]

LOL. Last time 2 or 3 people came for you for saying women do not have falsetto. Can you even tell what note is the note we are now discussing? (''trouble and shaking'')...?

 

as if telling what note it is, is something difficult... i only asked to see what you consider a mistake, cause there's no "mistake". also just because you and someone else didn't agree with me doesn't make me wrong. The contradiction is you who keeps thinking you know best when you don't

[amelie]

Funny how one asks direct questions to an 'ignorant' and then announces he only talks with knowledgeable people. Ah, these contradictions...

 

Here you are twisting words again, (thinking you're different from someone else you've accused he does so). i didn't say i only talk to knowledgeable people, i said i prefer talking to them about such matters than having announced what is the TRUTH by someone who has no music knowledge (cause knowing what note a sound is is like the alphabet or less than that).

[LukeD]

Here you are twisting words again, (thinking you're different from someone else you've accused he does so). i didn't say i only talk to knowledgeable people, i said i prefer talking to them about such matters than having announced what is the TRUTH by someone who has no music knowledge (cause knowing what note a sound is is like the alphabet or less than that).

So in another words you only opened a discussion so that you could say in your very next comment you are not here to discuss with an ignorant. I am sorry, but you are here not for constructive discussion, you are here to dismiss. The third time you are doing this, while I never did so with any of your posts. Hopefully you will find out why you felt the need to do that. Edited January 8, 2014 at 09:19 AM by LukeD

[LukeD]

as if telling what note it is, is something difficult... i only asked to see what you consider a mistake, cause there's no "mistake". also just because you and someone else didn't agree with me doesn't make me wrong. The contradiction is you who keeps thinking you know best when you don't

So it is easy. Ok, go on. Tell me what is the note we are talking about. The fact that people disagreed with you should have made you understand that at least I am not getting things out of my #ss. The fact that several vocal issues are controversial does not mean I have no clue what I am talking about. And please, I have never implied or said in any way that I know the best about vocals. This is your impression and you can hang on it all you want.

[amelie]

So it is easy. Ok, go on. Tell me what is the note we are talking about. The fact that people disagreed with you should have made you understand that at least I am not getting things out of my #ss. The fact that several vocal issues are controversial does not mean I have no clue what I am talking about. And please, I have never implied or said in any way that I know the best about vocals. This is your impression and you can hang on it all you want.

 

by even asking me to tell you what note it is you are dismissing me (not even my opinion) and by asking what you considered mistake (though yes i would probably not see one still) i was trying to understand what you were saying (as maybe you meant a mistake by Celine, a mistake by the way it was mixed?), i won't make that mistake next time, don't you worry!

Edited January 8, 2014 at 09:25 AM by amelie

[LukeD]

by even asking me to tell you what note it is you are dismissing me (not even my opinion) and by asking what you considered mistake (though yes i would probably not see one still) i was trying to understand what you were saying (as maybe you meant a mistake by Celine, a mistake by the way it was mixed?), i won't make that mistake next time, don't you worry!

When you are being dismissive more than once, what do you expect me to do? Anyway, this is the last time I'm explaining my posts to you... Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjSbIU5fnMI In 0:22 and 4:08 and onwards it says everything about the balance that should be achieved between chest and head voice in order to reach a high note in mixed voice. Celine's high note in 'Naked' is not balanced, it is like 10% chest and 90% head voice, hence it came off as thin and heady. Therefore, her singing/belting technique in that part is flawed. 'Overmixing' is not harmful for the vocal cords so in that sense it is no big deal. Moreover, Celine was on point in terms of intonation, she was not flat nor sharp, but still the production of the note was a mess. Real upper belters such as Aretha Franklin, Patti Labelle, Monica Naranjo and Vanessa Amorosi hit these high notes (and even higher ones) in mixed voice with great technique. They are exemplary high belters that achieve actual resonance up there because they know how to properly mix. Edited January 8, 2014 at 09:40 AM by LukeD

[amelie]

When you are being dismissive more than once, what do you expect me to do? Anyway, this is the final time I'm explaining my posts to you... Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjSbIU5fnMI In 0:22 and 4:08 and onwards it says everything about the balance that should be achieved between chest and head voice in order to reach a high note in mixed voice. Celine's high note in 'Naked' is not balanced, it is like 10% chest and 90% head voice, hence it came off as thin and heady. Therefore, her singing/belting technique in that part is flawed. 'Overmixing' is not harmful for the vocal cords so in that sense it is no big deal. Moreover, Celine was on point in terms of intonation, she was not flat nor sharp, but still the production of the note was a mess. Real upper belters such as Aretha Franklin, Patti Labelle, Monica Naranjo and Vanessa Amorosi hit these high notes (and even higher ones) in mixed voice with great technique. They are exemplary high belters that achieve actual resonance up there because they know how to properly mix.

 

...

using chest at all that high is bad for the voice and Celine (i guess) didn't even want to have that sound in this song, so if it was 100% head it would be even better, and head voice doesn't mean it sounds thin, as sopranos do exactly that (with dense air) and have a big sound.

[LukeD]

...

using chest at all that high is bad for the voice and Celine (i guess) didn't even want to have that sound in this song, so if it was 100% head it would be even better, and head voice doesn't mean it sounds thin, as sopranos do exactly that (with dense air) and have a big sound.

I did not say head voice sounds thin, I said Celine sounded thin because of poor balance between chest and head voice. If she had gone for head voice alone she would have sounded much better, she has showcased some really great potential there. But she went for belting, she tried to mix the note and well it was uneven. Subjectively, I do enjoy the sound of this note, it sounds a bit easy-going and cool to me.

[amelie]

I did not say head voice sounds thin, I said Celine sounded thin because of poor balance between chest and head voice. If she had gone for head voice alone she would have sounded much better, she has showcased some really great potential there. But she went for belting, she tried to mix the note and well it was uneven. Subjectively, I do enjoy the sound of this note, it sounds a bit easy-going and cool to me.

 

if you enjoy it then why its a mistake, its healthier and more pleasant than the alternative

[Javito]

Come on, so you mean you really wanted Céline to sing like that guy in the video??? Please, he looks like yawning!

 

I still think that the way Celine sang that "`cause I'm trembling and shaking" was totally intentional, because that's what the song asked for, not belting any high note

Edited January 8, 2014 at 10:03 AM by Javito

[LukeD]

if you enjoy it then why its a mistake, its healthier and more pleasant than the alternative

Because positive knowledge >>> my opinion. I explained why it was a technical flaw. Nasality does not harm the vocal cords either. Still a flaw, there is no true resonance.

[LukeD]

Come on, so you mean you really wanted Céline to sing like that guy in the video??? Please, he looks like yawning!

 

I still think that the way Celine sang that "`cause I'm trembling and shaking" was totally intentional, because that's what the song asked for, not belting any high note

He was showing the vocal exercise! When singing it doesn't sound like this, it comes off natural. There is a chance Celine sang it intentionally. She is usually playing with her voice.

[amelie]

Because positive knowledge >>> my opinion. I explained why it was a technical flaw. Nasality does not harm the vocal cords either. Still a flaw, there is no true resonance.

 

well to define something as technical flaw you have to define the technique first. For me the only technique is the classical one as its the healthier and most resonant, hence everything Celine does is flawed everything else is adjustments to make other sounds which are wanted in recent styles of singing.

I can't consider a pop singer's "technique" flawed as long as he has (most of the time) the intentioned result and relatively healthy singing. Celine in this era has proved her technique is at best and i find it in more compliance with classical one (considering she remains a pro pop singer) as ever

[LukeD]

well to define something as technical flaw you have to define the technique first. For me the only technique is the classical one as its the healthier and most resonant, hence everything Celine does is flawed everything else is adjustments to make other sounds which are wanted in recent styles of singing.

I can't consider a pop singer's "technique" flawed as long as he has (most of the time) the intentioned result and relatively healthy singing. Celine in this era has proved her technique is at best and i find it in more compliance with classical one (considering she remains a pro pop singer) as ever

Ι defined the proper singing technique and so did the singer in the video I sent you. You can't just say that everything Celine does is flawed when her sound is healthy most times and knows how to control her voice. She has been singing for over 33 years and if everything she did was a mistake, then she would have no voice to sing with today. Also, you can't put everything a pop singer does in the same basket. If so, an intentional screamed note is just as great as a properly-placed, resonant one. Based on your logic, pop singers should just go on stage and 'kill it' like they're wild animals just as long as they do what they intend to do and sound a bit healthy (the latter actually requires training). It's as if you dismiss the impact vocal pedagogy can have on pop singing (actually in every genre that is not classical) and the progress pop singers can achieve when properly trained with a vocal teacher. Edited January 8, 2014 at 10:39 AM by LukeD

[amelie]

Ι defined the proper singing technique and so did the singer in the video I sent you. You can't just say that everything Celine does is flawed when her sound is healthy most times and knows how to control her voice. She has been singing for over 33 years and if everything she did was a mistake, then she would have no voice to sing with today. Also, you can't put everything a pop singer does in the same basket. If so a screamed note is just as great as a properly-placed, resonant one. Based on your logic, pop singers should not be trained and just go on stage and 'kill it' like they're wild animals. It is as if you dismiss vocal pedagogy and the progress a pop singer can achieve when properly trained with a vocal teacher.

 

you defined the proper singing technique... well i don't agree with your definition and you keep misinterpreting what i said quite clearly i think. Celine is flawed if the definition is classical singing, celine isn't a classican singer though so it doesn't apply to her to its full extent. For a pop singer a good technique is one that provides results in a quite healthy way and there are probably many variations out there. Obviously everyone should be trained in some way, everyone chooses a teacher and the technique that teacher has to offer and its even more difficult in pop singing to say this the absolute one. Celine is obviously a successful singer and my favorite and even by pop standards she's flawed during her nasal eras but in general she's great but by classical standards she's not but those do not apply on her since she's not a classical singer.

[amelie]

LOL. Last time 2 or 3 people came for you for saying women do not have falsetto. Can you even tell what note is the note we are now discussing? (''trouble and shaking'')...?

 

btw its trembling not trouble

[LukeD]

you defined the proper singing technique... well i don't agree with your definition and you keep misinterpreting what i said quite clearly i think. Celine is flawed if the definition is classical singing, celine isn't a classican singer though so it doesn't apply to her to its full extent. For a pop singer a good technique is one that provides results in a quite healthy way and there are probably many variations out there. Obviously everyone should be trained in some way, everyone chooses a teacher and the technique that teacher has to offer and its even more difficult in pop singing to say this the absolute one. Celine is obviously a successful singer and my favorite and even by pop standards she's flawed during her nasal eras but in general she's great but by classical standards she's not but those do not apply on her since she's not a classical singer.

I understand what you said, I simply pointed out that pop singers are much more than 'intentional results and relatively healthy singing', hell there are vocalists out there whose connected range spans 3 octaves. Other than that, it is obvious you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. If the vocal teacher in the video could not persuade you with his definition of proper mixing (something Celine did not do in the note we were talking about as her mixing was uneven), then there is no chance I am going to do it. I stop replying here. Edited January 8, 2014 at 10:57 AM by LukeD