Courage World Tour - EU shows CANCELED

[Xpresso]

 

 

Let's say that her being quiet about it makes it even worst.

Yes every artist doesn't give a damn about this robbery because they know people will buy tickets at any price.

But, If only people will boycot it, only then things will be changed. I hope one day to see such thing.

Complains won't never help in this case.

If people think the prices are too high (either Celine's portion or TicketMaster's) then the best option is to avoid purchasing tickets instead of blaming Celine for not speaking out.

Same thing happens with operas, musicals, etc.

[Shaun]

I don't like discussing the "P" word but I fear it's a big reason we've never had any further live albums or DVD's etc.

[Javito]

If people think the prices are too high (either Celine's portion or TicketMaster's) then the best option is to avoid purchasing tickets instead of blaming Celine for not speaking out.

Same thing happens with operas, musicals, etc.

 

What has to do a one-single performer show like Celine's show with a multiple artists, dancers, actors and performers sharing the same stage like is a musical production or an opera??? Even if we count the portion of the orchestra and band members in Celine's productions, that has NOTHING to do with the amount of people participating in a musical, or the cast of an opera which usually have more than one performer and a real FULL orchestra!

 

Seriously... when you try to find an excuse to defend Celine (which is 99% of times lol), please try better and look for better examples!

Edited August 26, 2019 at 08:23 PM by Javito

[Xpresso]

 

 

What has to do a one-single performer show like Celine's show with a multiple artists, dancers, actors and performers sharing the same stage like is a musical production or an opera??? Even if we count the portion of the orchestra and band members in Celine's productions, that has NOTHING to do with the amount of people participating in a musical!

 

Seriously... when you try to find an excuse to defend Celine (which is 99% of times lol), please try better and look for better examples!

I'm talking about prices. If they are too high for Celine, for an opera or for whatever show, just don't buy them.

And do you always need to nitpick about everything? It was nice around here for a while…

 

[Davey84]

 

What has to do a one-single performer show like Celine's show with a multiple artists, dancers, actors and performers sharing the same stage like is a musical production or an opera??? Even if we count the portion of the orchestra and band members in Celine's productions, that has NOTHING to do with the amount of people participating in a musical, or the cast of an opera which usually have more than one performer and a real FULL orchestra!

 

Seriously... when you try to find an excuse to defend Celine (which is 99% of times lol), please try better and look for better examples!

I think he meant the ticket price FEE. not the price of the ticket itself.

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

 

 

[AdrienneM]

Her playback rates have been lower post 2015, than theyve been since 1993. I dont think most anyone other than those who analyse her heavily notice it, most people are just star struck and they dont notice, the most noticeable one imo is TPOL, however, when youre there with all the reverb and echo, the change isnt soooo obvious as it is on phone recordings. Considering the pacing of these shows, i cant see her really increasing the playback rates, shes doing like 12 shows in 3 weeks with 3 weeks off between rounds. Shes been smarter this time

 

 

On the actual ticket bit btw, the most expensive ticket in reality will be like $400-500, however ticketmaster add on their own fees, “platinum” ticks and VIP bundles to the ticket... ticketmaster are notorious for their buffoonery

Edited August 26, 2019 at 08:27 PM by AdrienneM

[Xpresso]

I think he meant the ticket price FEE. not the price of the ticket itself.

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

Exactly. You know Javito and his constant drama, well that was just another example, and a good example if I may say!

[Javito]

I'm talking about prices. If they are too high for Celine, for an opera or for whatever show, just don't buy them.

And do you always need to nitpick about everything? It was nice around here for a while…

 

And I'm talking about prices too. You won't find a cheap musical production, given the amount of people involved in it. Not only behind the stage but on the stage. Thinking of Cats now or The Lion King. The costs of a production like that has nothing to do with a Celine Dion show, where it's just her and her musicians and no visuals, no dancers, no theatricals at all.

 

If we were talking about the A New Day show on the road, that would be another thing. But her productions have been cut to the minimal on both personnel and costs since 2011.

[Shaun]

Her playback rates have been lower post 2015, than theyve been since 1993. I dont think most anyone other than those who analyse her heavily notice it, most people are just star struck and they dont notice, the most noticeable one imo is TPOL, however, when youre there with all the reverb and echo, the change isnt soooo obvious as it is on phone recordings. Considering the pacing of these shows, i cant see her really increasing the playback rates, shes doing like 12 shows in 3 weeks with 3 weeks off between rounds. Shes been smarter this time

 

Like I said previously I don't particularly like discussing playback however to state she's using playback less than ever simply isn't true. In fact quite the opposite is true.

 

Take the final Las Vegas show as an example. 35% of that set-list was either totally or partially lipped. Over a third of the show. Whether it is noticeable or not should not be relevant. It IS happening regardless if it's noticeable or not and people are paying good money for the privilege. There have been massive playback failings in recent years (Vienna / Paris) and she's gotten away with them. I have a real fear one of these days it will be truly exposed.

 

If the songs cannot be performed as originally recorded then lower or alter them or even drop them! To give an example, no-one is in the slightest bit bothered that "That's The Way It Is" has been lowered for live performance because it sounds great and Celine's energy during the performance of the song is amazing!! If you need to lower or change the arrangement to avoid lipping that would be the much better option.

 

In my opinion.

[Xpresso]

 

 

And I'm talking about prices too. You won't find a cheap musical production, given the amount of people involved in it. Not only behind the stage but on the stage. Thinking of Cats now or The Lion King. The costs of a production like that has nothing to do with a Celine Dion show, where it's just her and her musicians and no visuals, no dancers, no theatricals at all.

 

If we were talking about the A New Day show on the road, that would be another thing. But her productions have been cut to the minimal on both personnel and costs since 2011.

You still don't get it so just move along. Meow.

[AdrienneM]

 

 

Like I said previously I don't particularly like discussing playback however to state she's using playback less than ever simply isn't true. In fact quite the opposite is true.

 

Take the final Las Vegas show as an example. 35% of that set-list was either totally or partially lipped. Over a third of the show.

 

In my opinion.

 

Well lets examine that,

 

TCOMLT- 5 or 6/18 songs had lipped elements, 28/30%

Deux Tour (Anglo.) 5/15 songs had lipped elements, 30%

FIYWT - 7/19 or 20 songs had lipped elements, 36%

LTALWT- 5/17 songs had lipped elements, 29%

AND- 8/18 songs had lipped elements, 44%

TCWT- 10/18 songs had lipped elements, 55%

Celine (2011-2014) - 8/18 songs had lipped elements, 44%

Celine 2015 - 5/23 songs had lipped elements, 21%

Celine 2016 - 5 or 6/20 songs had lipped elements, 30%

Live 2016 - 3/25 songs had lipped elements, 12%

Celine 2017 - 6/20 songs had lipped elements, 30%

Live 2017 - 5/24 songs had lipped elements, 22%

Celine 2018 - 6/18 songs had lipped elements, 30%

Live 2018 - 6/21 songs had lipped elements, 28%

Celine 2019 - 6/18 songs had lipped elements, 30%

Hyde Park 2019- 5/19 songs had lipped elements, 26%

 

As you can see, that is clearly not the case, her lipping has certainly decreased, especially from the “big lipping eras” of 2003-2014.

 

The reason i say lipped elements is also because many of these songs are only partially lipped, almost all of them are 30% live or more, the only exceptions being IACBTMN 2003-2016, TLYM 1996-2019, Misled 1993-1997, WDMHBN 1993-1997, OOR 1993-1997 and DMQS 1993-1995

[Shaun]

Some of the figures there seem very "generous" and of course the set list changed many times through some tours and also "A New Day..." for example. And as for Hyde Park I make it 7/19 songs = 37%.

 

Anyway, the point is these figures are too high! You also say her figures have been lower post 2015 but yet (according to your figures) she's gone from 21% in 2015 to 30% in 2019. That is not positive progress.

 

Change the songs to arrangements that can be done live such as TTWII. It's a simple solution.

[sarit_celine]

If people think the prices are too high (either Celine's portion or TicketMaster's) then the best option is to avoid purchasing tickets instead of blaming Celine for not speaking out.

Same thing happens with operas, musicals, etc.

 

It's the chicken and the egg case. Well, if I will ask fans to do a massive twitter act

about this matter only four people will take part in it. People doesn't believe they can change

something, and because of that we got to this situation where fans are abused. Sad.

[AdrienneM]

Some of the figures there seem very "generous" and of course the set list changed many times through some tours and also "A New Day..." for example. And as for Hyde Park I make it 7/19 songs = 37%.

 

Anyway, the point is these figures are too high! You also say her figures have been lower post 2015 but yet (according to your figures) she's gone from 21% in 2015 to 30% in 2019. That is not positive progress.

 

Change the songs to arrangements that can be done live such as TTWII. It's a simple solution.

 

“Generous” isnt the word id use. I literally went through the set lists for each tour, checked the numbers and calculated percentages. LTAL and TCWTs stayed almost identical throughout their long runs, as did Celine 2011-2014 only changing a few songs, some that she added were even lipped. FIY i used the anglophone set list, infact, i did so for every tour except live 2016 which was solely french. I also counted Medleys as 1 song, long medleys as 2.

 

For AND i went through and did an average over the 4 years and found that to be the average songs out of the full set lipped. Hyde Park I calculated incorrectly forgetting about FOMO and TLYM, you were right, 37%.

 

And no, they’re not too high. 29-37% with ELEMENTS of playback, every song except for TLYM has live moments. TPOL has a whole live verse, ABM is 2 notes, FOMO is 2 chorus’ and the climax, IACBTMN has the 45 second outro and MHWGO is just the climax, the other 3:30 of the song is live. If we add up all the actual times of the lengths of playbacks, it adds up to 15 minute roughly, which would equate to like 4, full 3 and a half minute songs in base numbers.

 

Considering shes performing over 70-90 shows a year, and her age and length of her career, thats GOOD. Her contemporaries are lipping like 50-60-70% of their shows and so are younger artists.

 

And yes, 21% - 30% isnt positive progress *Vegas* wise, however shes cut alot of songs, meaning the % has increased, not necessarily that the number of lipped songs has increased (they have wavered) the main point was that 2015-2019 has been lower than almost the rest of her english career, especially 2003-2014. I mean compare 2016/2017/2018 tours to tours in her PRIME and the evidence is clear

[Shaun]

And no, they're not too high.

 

Why? Because you say so?

 

Perhaps each "Courage World Tour" ticket should have printed on it *Please note: 30% of the songs in tonight's show will be either partially or totally lipped.*

 

Maybe it should be printed on the tour poster to allow people to make an informed decision? If the figures aren't too high Adrienne perhaps they should just be honest and let everyone who has paid $600 for a ticket know what's going on?

[AdrienneM]

 

 

Why? Because you say so?

 

Perhaps each "Courage World Tour" ticket should have printed on it *Please note: 30% of the songs in tonight's show will be either partially or totally lipped.*

 

Maybe it should be printed on the tour poster to allow people to make an informed decision? If the figures aren't too high Adrienne perhaps they should just be honest and let everyone who has paid $600 for a ticket know what's going on?

 

I guess that should then be the case for those paying $1,000 to see Mariah Carey whos lipping LITERALLY 70% of her show, and yet, her fans dont care what soooo ever. In fact, make that the case for all artists. Ive spent over $1,100 for my two Miami shows and will probably spend another grand going to see her in Europe, and i personally, couldnt give a damn about 30% of songs having partial lipping.

 

Doing nearly 100 shows a year, at 51, 38 years into your career, with the difficulty of her songs and the rate at which they’re performed, 30% is not bad AT ALL. Literally almost every female contemporary except Barbra Streisand lips *at least* 40% of their shows, however, Barbra literally performs like 10 shows a year.

 

Lets not discuss how im pretty sure everyone and their mama knows literally no show with heavy vocals whether that be a concert, a broadway show or an opera will have no pre recorded tracks in it.. but i digress, why bother continuing if we clearly have very differing opinions

[Shaun]

I guess that should then be the case for those paying $1,000 to see Mariah Carey whos lipping LITERALLY 70% of her show, and yet, her fans dont care what soooo ever. In fact, make that the case for all artists. Ive spent over $1,100 for my two Miami shows and will probably spend another grand going to see her in Europe, and i personally, couldnt give a damn about 30% of songs having partial lipping.

 

Doing nearly 100 shows a year, at 51, 38 years into your career, with the difficulty of her songs and the rate at which they're performed, 30% is not bad AT ALL. Literally almost every female contemporary except Barbra Streisand lips *at least* 40% of their shows, however, Barbra literally performs like 10 shows a year.

 

Lets not discuss how im pretty sure everyone and their mama knows literally no show with heavy vocals whether that be a concert, a broadway show or an opera will have no pre recorded tracks in it.. but i digress, why bother continuing if we clearly have very differing opinions

 

This is the Celine Dion forum though not the Mariah or Broadway show forum. I couldn't care less what goes on elsewhere. That doesn't make it ok!

 

Like you say, let's agree to disagree.

[sarit_celine]

 

 

Perhaps each "Courage World Tour" ticket should have printed on it *Please note: 30% of the songs in tonight's show will be either partially or totally lipped.*

 

 

This.

[maki_Dion-er]

 

 

Omg yeah!

 

So many people dont know this, but if you phone the venues box office or visit them in person, you can get tickets soooo much cheaper as it doesnt have any of ticketmasters %’s on them. A $800 front row seat on ticketmaster will be like $400 at the venue box office

 

Didn't know that.

 

I think, though, that if you're patient enough you can find really good seats for under $400. I bought a floor 3 row G ticket that cost about $350, and yesterday bought one in floor 1 row K at $250.

 

Then again, it also depends on the state. Some are much more expensive than others.

[Xpresso]

 

 

Why? Because you say so?

 

Perhaps each "Courage World Tour" ticket should have printed on it *Please note: 30% of the songs in tonight's show will be either partially or totally lipped.*

 

Maybe it should be printed on the tour poster to allow people to make an informed decision? If the figures aren't too high Adrienne perhaps they should just be honest and let everyone who has paid $600 for a ticket know what's going on?

It's simple. If people are so offended by some lipping then just don't go. Why do people complain instead of not going?

Too expensive? Too much this or that? Just stay home folks.

Edited August 27, 2019 at 12:21 AM by Xpresso

[kellyfan161]

It's simple. If people are so offended by some lipping then just don't go. Why do people complain instead of not going?

Too expensive? Too much this or that? Just stay home folks.

Exactly!! I refuse to go see Britney Spears live because she lips the whole show... if you don’t like it, don’t go..lol

[AdrienneM]

 

 

Didn't know that.

 

I think, though, that if you're patient enough you can find really good seats for under $400. I bought a floor 3 row G ticket that cost about $350, and yesterday bought one in floor 1 row K at $250.

 

Then again, it also depends on the state. Some are much more expensive than others.

 

When i went to see Ariana Grande with my little cousin recently, i managed to get some of the runway side seats for around $350 each, directly from the venue box office. A whole $300 cheaper than what ticketmaster were asking

Edited August 27, 2019 at 07:32 AM by AdrienneM

[jpatdeleon09]

 

 

Like I said previously I don't particularly like discussing playback however to state she's using playback less than ever simply isn't true. In fact quite the opposite is true.

 

Take the final Las Vegas show as an example. 35% of that set-list was either totally or partially lipped. Over a third of the show. Whether it is noticeable or not should not be relevant. It IS happening regardless if it's noticeable or not and people are paying good money for the privilege. There have been massive playback failings in recent years (Vienna / Paris) and she's gotten away with them. I have a real fear one of these days it will be truly exposed.

 

If the songs cannot be performed as originally recorded then lower or alter them or even drop them! To give an example, no-one is in the slightest bit bothered that "That's The Way It Is" has been lowered for live performance because it sounds great and Celine's energy during the performance of the song is amazing!! If you need to lower or change the arrangement to avoid lipping that would be the much better option.

 

In my opinion.

 

For my opinion, Uptempos should never be in lower key. That decreases the energy of the song. It will sound flat. I wouldn’t mind if she’ll lipped for the uptempos. At least, the performance looks energetic and fun and more dancing on stage and tap dance

Edited August 27, 2019 at 09:20 AM by jpatdeleon09

[sarit_celine]

Didn't know that.

 

I think, though, that if you're patient enough you can find really good seats for under $400. I bought a floor 3 row G ticket that cost about $350, and yesterday bought one in floor 1 row K at $250.

 

Then again, it also depends on the state. Some are much more expensive than others.

 

I'm not sure people from abroad will be able to do that, only could use bandits Ticketmaster

[sarit_celine]

To be offended by playbacks? It's more like a big fraud and this can lead to court claims.

No wonder we got to this situation when many fans don't mind to get a pretender on the stage.

[enno2007]

 

This and this! Prices are determined largely by the demand, and by what people are willing to pay. The production costs are secondary.

 

If you think tickets are too expensive or you dislike the presence of playback, there is a simple solution as Xpresso wrote.

 

Nobody has to attend a show, it’s all a choice.

 

It's simple. If people are so offended by some lipping then just don't go. Why do people complain instead of not going?

Too expensive? Too much this or that? Just stay home folks.

[enno2007]

You are hilarious. Go for it then, sue her. And don’t forget to report back here how it went.

 

To be offended by playbacks? It's more like a big fraud and this can lead to court claims.

No wonder we got to this situation when many fans don't mind to get a pretender on the stage.

[sarit_celine]

The joke (thanks god) is not on me. So many disrespect for intelligence over this place.

By the way she was sued already in the 90's but it got silenced right away.

Edited August 27, 2019 at 11:40 AM by sarit_celine

[alexceline]

She was sued by a former band member probably because he was mad he was let go and the case was dismissed because it's laughable. You can sue everyone for everything that comes on your mind,it doesn't make it a case though lol. You can't sue someone for lipsyncing and expect to win or even be taken seriously. Yikes Edited August 27, 2019 at 11:46 AM by alexceline

[Ajax]

So many disrespect for intelligence over this place.

 

That's gonna make my day.