Courage World Tour - EU shows CANCELED

[Xpresso]

If all the singers who use playback would get sued, it would be the end of the music business.

[sarit_celine]

If all the singers who use playback would get sued, it would be the end of the music business.

 

[sarit_celine]

She was sued by a former band member probably because he was mad he was let go and the case was dismissed because it's laughable. You can sue everyone for everything that comes on your mind,it doesn't make it a case though lol. You can't sue someone for lipsyncing and expect to win or even be taken seriously. Yikes

 

I love it when we try to make the P matter look small when that only hurts the great artist she is.

It's not a small matter, it just reflect how the artist sees the fans.

I admire her a lot but can't never support such things.

I will be here to remind you once the press will go after her for that again and then we will see

who will be considered laughable.

[alexceline]

 

 

I love it when we try to make the P matter look small when that only hurts the great artist she is.

It's not a small matter, it just reflect how the artist sees the fans.

I admire her a lot but can't never support such things.

I will be here to remind you once the press will go after her for that again and then we will see

who will be considered laughable.

 

I didn't have any stance on the playback matter on my answer, yet you're the one deciding my opinion and putting words in my mouth.

 

Your comment makes it seem like you want her to fail so bad just so you can be proven correct and have the satisfaction of saying "I told you so" once the whole world drags her. That sounds pretty miserable to me.

 

[alexceline]

 

 

I love it when we try to make the P matter look small when that only hurts the great artist she is.

It's not a small matter, it just reflect how the artist sees the fans.

I admire her a lot but can't never support such things.

I will be here to remind you once the press will go after her for that again and then we will see

who will be considered laughable.

 

I'm not against what you're saying. People pay big money for this and other shows but I can see how she's trapped in this image as well. It's enough to come on here and read how she should have done this and that and then her voice would be exactly the same and all that. There's not really a final answer to that 💁

[sarit_celine]

Ok this is getting strange, you aren't writing about it, but she was sued for that

and now you're being the one who put words in other's mouth "wants her to fail"

while my post implies the opposite and she should keep being the great artist she is.

(it's about me, or about the singer? Anyway only she can fail herself)

[sarit_celine]

I'm not against what you're saying. People pay big money for this and other shows but I can see how she's trapped in this image as well. It's enough to come on here and read how she should have done this and that and then her voice would be exactly the same and all that. There's not really a final answer to that

 

Didn't see you've added this, she is indeed in a very complicated situation I agree and it's painful to write about it.

I wrote about it many times but for some unclear reason I will be taken as her hater.

I was trying to say we're not helping her in any way when letting all this happen.

because all this in the end might return to her and not in a good way.

[jpatdeleon09]

This is the example of what Mariah’s technique when singing with effects for the belting notes. Reverb/echoes/delays

 

It starts at 11:32 haha

 

 

Maybe céline’s sound engineer can do this in live to help with the belting parts. It can smoothen your voice. And not sounding so dry. Yes! The sound guy can do that live and not just in post edit.

 

just sharing

Edited August 27, 2019 at 01:40 PM by jpatdeleon09

[AdrienneM]

Mariah funnily doesnt use alot of reverb or delay live for that matter... hence why she sounds dry as hell half the time

[jpatdeleon09]

Mariah funnily doesnt use alot of reverb or delay live for that matter... hence why she sounds dry as hell half the time

 

Actually, she’s using that effects since 90’s but now they somewhat make her voice sound a bit raw yet the eq for the voice is still lighter (more treble) but when belting they still put the effects (but not that much anymore unlike in 90’s or in albums)

 

She still uses this in her albums. Especially, on belting parts. Like for example. Angels cry at the end. There’s a lot of reverb, delays, echoes.

 

I just wish they do this to céline “more” to help her too when singing live and doing belting

Edited August 27, 2019 at 02:26 PM by jpatdeleon09

[AdrienneM]

Mariah uses it heavily in the studio, however live, not so much. I remember watching her Asia tour bootlegs and the audio is crystal clear, there’s literally nothing on it, howver, it sounds very detached from her instrumental, her mic also seems to be made louder than the band, so she’s constantly super loud. I think most of the “reverb” is just her natural resonance

[DionFanAlways]

sigh......

 

 

 

[jpatdeleon09]

Mariah uses it heavily in the studio, however live, not so much. I remember watching her Asia tour bootlegs and the audio is crystal clear, there’s literally nothing on it, howver, it sounds very detached from her instrumental, her mic also seems to be made louder than the band, so she’s constantly super loud. I think most of the “reverb” is just her natural resonance

 

Here is my video of Mariah back in 2014. Hear the reverb effects?

 

 

I remember her watching in live during her Me. I Am Mariah Tour 2014. The sound is not great. Her voice coming out from the speakers sounds like they’re trying to replicate the volume sound of the studio track that’s why i can barely hear her vocals. I didn’t enjoy that concert honestly. Usually, the sound of the live vocals vs the studio vocals are so different in live. Live vocals are much louder, raw compared to the studio vocals where the sound is lower, well balanced volume. That’s why when she sang Always Be My Baby when the studio vocals (pre recorded but it’s sounds same in the cd) kicks in. You’ll hear the difference. Much smoother, lighter compared to the live ones and the volume of that lipped track.. is so noticeable.

 

The effects part that you’re saying that “natural resonance”...

You are hearing the natural reverb of the arena + the effects from the sound guy. Mariah always sing in a room that has natural reverb like in Big spaces (usually seen in her insta vids) while céline in bathrooms

 

Well, compared to Céline. I’ve watched her concert last year. And it was soooooooo CLEAAAR. Her voice is so loud. Like in Madonna’s concert (but the only thing the lacks is the bass). It’s so clear. Compared to Mariah. And i got chills in IACBTMN when she’s doing the runs at the end (the live part). Everyone went like WOAH!!! And people at my back keep saying that she’s really sounds amazing.

 

Her voice is much better in live compared to what we are hearing in the fancams. You’ll never even noticed the pre recorded track but in fan cams you’ll hear it right away. But the arrangements. I still go with the regular band with pre recorded instruments. Ala TCWT.

Edited August 27, 2019 at 03:02 PM by jpatdeleon09

[enno2007]

And how are ‘we’ helping her to let this happen?

 

It seems you are implying that we as fans have a duty to expose her, and her alone, for a practice that is wide-spread in the music business.

 

I agree with you that playback is deplorable and dishonest, even if I understand the reasons for its use.

 

But to jump from that to the desire to have Celine dragged through the mud to bring her back to her senses is simply creepy and sanctimonious.

 

 

 

 

 

I was trying to say we're not helping her in any way when letting all this happen.

because all this in the end might return to her and not in a good way.

Edited August 27, 2019 at 02:56 PM by enno2007

[Céline RO]

 

 

That's true, and I for one don't constantly compare her voice between years nor I have an ear to identity playback use like other experts here (good for them!). But Céline is using and merging playback with live vocals more and more frequently and in some cases is now becoming very obvious and even embarrassing in some cases (MHWGO, ABM). She needs to step up her game with some songs and either record new playback tracks with her current voice, or adapt the songs with another key so the change with the playback is not that obvious.

 

Also, I do agree it's just normal that your voice changes with age, like skin and every muscle in the body, but I do also believe her Vegas marathonian years have taken a toll on this aspect and she would have a less nasal, raspy voice at 50 hadn't she performed that many shows in the last 16 years. And of course her passion when singing those certain collection of songs that she's sick to perform all the time would be way less damaged and would translate into more "enthusiasm" when performing them. That, I have no doubt about it. Like I said, it's not the same to perform MHWGO or ABM 200 times in 15 years than more than nearly 1,200 times

 

To me, her playback tracks don’t seem that noticeable at all. Before I was a hardcore fan I actually thought some were live (long time ago though). For example, at the end of “To Love You More” she shifts to a track from 1995/1996 and no one notices (23 freaking years later!!). The only problems with the tracks you mentioned are that the MHWGO track is too auto tuned and the ABM track has a crack so it’s more memorable and easy to compare between shows.

 

Also, I don’t really think that Vegas ruined her voice as I’m sure Céline consulted her doctor and vocal coach before and was told that she could do it without losing her voice. She was perfectly aware of what Vegas would do otherwise she wouldn’t have done it (for so long)(she would have noticed after so many years).

 

I don’t really think

[Céline RO]

 

 

Actually, post 2015, shes lipped LESS than she did from 1996-2014, this year even, shes lipping only 1 100% lipped song, 2 songs 90% lipped, one song 70% lipped, the two ABM lipped notes and the MHWGO climax. Thats roughly 6 songs with lipped elements in them, compared to 1996 when she had 7 lipped songs, and far less than 2003-2011 when she had 8 lipped in AND, 10 lipped in he TCWT and 8 in Celine (2011-2014)...

 

However, i personally, believe if she was only doing like a mini tour per year (15-25 dates), she could do the playback tracks live, as we saw in carpool and the hyde park rehearsals. I also wouldnt mind if she took IACBTMN, BYLM, TPOL, MHWGO and ABM down another half-step to be able to comfortably sing them live consistently.. but hey thats just me

 

I think if she lowered ABM by another semitone (meaning 3 semitones lower than original) people wouldn’t be as impressed by it anymore. It’s already low enough as it is. However, I wouldn’t mind if she started lipping the choruses as well as they started sounding very nasal and lazy. The higher the key, the less better her voice sounds.

[Céline RO]

I don't like discussing the "P" word but I fear it's a big reason we've never had any further live albums or DVD's etc.

 

I think they’re just lazy. She could easily sing the song again in a studio for the DVD.

[jpatdeleon09]

 

 

I think they’re just lazy. She could easily sing the song again in a studio for the DVD.

 

You mean.. Dubbbing?

[AdrienneM]

 

 

Here is my video of Mariah back in 2014. Hear the reverb effects?

 

 

I remember her watching in live during her Me. I Am Mariah Tour 2014. The sound is not great. Her voice coming out from the speakers sounds like they’re trying to replicate the volume sound of the studio track that’s why i can barely hear her vocals. I didn’t enjoy that concert honestly. Usually, the sound of the live vocals vs the studio vocals are so different in live. Live vocals are much louder, raw compared to the studio vocals where the sound is lower, well balanced volume. That’s why when she sang Always Be My Baby when the studio vocals (pre recorded but it’s sounds same in the cd) kicks in. You’ll hear the difference. Much smoother, lighter compared to the live ones and the volume of that lipped track.. is so noticeable.

 

The effects part that you’re saying that “natural resonance”...

You are hearing the natural reverb of the arena + the effects from the sound guy. Mariah always sing in a room that has natural reverb like in Big spaces (usually seen in her insta vids) while céline in bathrooms

 

Well, compared to Céline. I’ve watched her concert last year. And it was soooooooo CLEAAAR. Her voice is so loud. Like in Madonna’s concert (but the only thing the lacks is the bass). It’s so clear. Compared to Mariah. And i got chills in IACBTMN when she’s doing the runs at the end (the live part). Everyone went like WOAH!!! And people at my back keep saying that she’s really sounds amazing.

 

Her voice is much better in live compared to what we are hearing in the fancams. You’ll never even noticed the pre recorded track but in fan cams you’ll hear it right away. But the arrangements. I still go with the regular band with pre recorded instruments. Ala TCWT.

 

I said she doesnt USUALLY use effects, i also mentioned 2018, not 2014. I dont recall her using a big amount of effects since 2014 where she would use a echo effect on the final run of My All.

 

However, in 2018...

[jpatdeleon09]

 

 

I said she doesnt USUALLY use effects, i also mentioned 2018, not 2014. I dont recall her using a big amount of effects since 2014 where she would use a echo effect on the final run of My All.

 

However, in 2018...

 

That’s why i said...

 

“Actually, she’s using that effects since 90’s but now they somewhat make her voice sound a bit raw yet the eq for the voice is still lighter (more treble) but when belting they still put the effects (but not that much anymore unlike in 90’s or in albums)”

 

Watching the video. There’s still an effect but it’s from the natural reverb/echoes of the hall/theater/arena + a little from the sound guy

 

But at least these effects can help the singer to have more resonance, sounds a bit better than the raw sound

 

Well, i just shared to this forum that these effects can be done live and not just in post edit. Maybe some thought that you can’t make the vocals sounds better in live that it only can be done in the editing part.

Edited August 27, 2019 at 03:22 PM by jpatdeleon09

[Céline RO]

 

 

You mean.. Dubbbing?

 

Yes.

[jpatdeleon09]

I tried to edit her Ashes performance in Los Angeles by putting reverb and delays and adjust the volume since during the livestream, the volume is not consistent

 

 

The original

[sarit_celine]

And how are 'we' helping her to let this happen?

 

It seems you are implying that we as fans have a duty to expose her, and her alone, for a practice that is wide-spread in the music business.

 

I agree with you that playback is deplorable and dishonest, even if I understand the reasons for its use.

 

But to jump from that to the desire to have Celine dragged through the mud to bring her back to her senses is simply creepy and sanctimonious.

 

A desire to drag her to the mud? isn't she responsible for some things in her career?

She sure has reasons for doing it, but she should not be lazy and do something about it.

 

I prefer she will face reality only one time, and won't turn into parody

where she lose her artistic credibility like Mariah carey.

[Xpresso]

Can we stick to the World Tour kids!!??

[fred]

No that's not just you. I so wish for her to do far less shows a year than the rate she's currently up to. And there was no real NEED for her to do a world tour now already - an American tour would suffice, and maybe add in South America.

 

I'm not sure why she keeps feeling the need for this rapid pace in getting a whole lot of concerts done. It could be out of greed. But I don't want to think like that. I'd rather think she feels obliged to share her beautiful gift, her voice with the world as much as she can while she still can.

 

But she could do that by increasing the amount of live releases (albums/concert videos) and keeping them varied and high quality (not the same old same old we have in the "few" live recordings we have). And keeping her shows to a minimum would save her voice and make her able to do skip the playback. Add in some variation in the setlists between "concert runs" and we'd have mighty fine live recordings as a result. In that way she could also share her gift with the world. And find more time for studio albums (and experimenting mor with them). Plus having more time with her family and to spend on fashion. It would be a win win for all.

 

To sum this up: I wish she did less amount of concerts (AND was insane, TCWT too, and Celine and why she now embarks on a world tour after that is beyond me - woman breathe!).

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, post 2015, shes lipped LESS than she did from 1996-2014, this year even, shes lipping only 1 100% lipped song, 2 songs 90% lipped, one song 70% lipped, the two ABM lipped notes and the MHWGO climax. Thats roughly 6 songs with lipped elements in them, compared to 1996 when she had 7 lipped songs, and far less than 2003-2011 when she had 8 lipped in AND, 10 lipped in he TCWT and 8 in Celine (2011-2014)...

 

However, i personally, believe if she was only doing like a mini tour per year (15-25 dates), she could do the playback tracks live, as we saw in carpool and the hyde park rehearsals. I also wouldnt mind if she took IACBTMN, BYLM, TPOL, MHWGO and ABM down another half-step to be able to comfortably sing them live consistently.. but hey thats just me

[nuts2you]

According to a tweet by Jean-Francois mean

@Jfzilla, Celine would be recording a martian themed video, would it be a Would it be projection for the tour We'll have to wait Come soon courage tour!

https://twitter.com/jfzilla/status/1166446810786934784

[fred]

Hear hear!!

 

I have gotten a bit numb lately with this lipping issue. But I used to see it as a shameful scam (main reason I never went to the TC concert). But yea you have a good point there. If she'd be exposed it would be a major hit towards her career and her reputation couldn't recover for that. She'd be known as the "one we thought was THE voice but she cheated and faked it all". And that would be a real shame. 😯

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said previously I don't particularly like discussing playback however to state she's using playback less than ever simply isn't true. In fact quite the opposite is true.

 

Take the final Las Vegas show as an example. 35% of that set-list was either totally or partially lipped. Over a third of the show. Whether it is noticeable or not should not be relevant. It IS happening regardless if it's noticeable or not and people are paying good money for the privilege. There have been massive playback failings in recent years (Vienna / Paris) and she's gotten away with them. I have a real fear one of these days it will be truly exposed.

 

If the songs cannot be performed as originally recorded then lower or alter them or even drop them! To give an example, no-one is in the slightest bit bothered that "That's The Way It Is" has been lowered for live performance because it sounds great and Celine's energy during the performance of the song is amazing!! If you need to lower or change the arrangement to avoid lipping that would be the much better option.

 

In my opinion.

[Chantemoi]

According to a tweet by Jean-Francois mean

@Jfzilla, Celine would be recording a martian themed video, would it be a Would it be projection for the tour We'll have to wait Come soon courage tour!

https://twitter.com/jfzilla/status/1166446810786934784

 

Wooo hooo!!! Here’s the leak we’ve been waiting for!!!

[Angel2006]

I can't wait for this Celine planet Mars video!! I wonder if it's a music video for her next single or if it's an opening video for the Courage World Tour, either way I am excited as heck!!

[Nmj]

I can't wait for this Celine planet Mars video!! I wonder if it's a music video for her next single or if it's an opening video for the Courage World Tour, either way I am excited as heck!!

 

Maybe it will be a tour opening video, of Celine on Mars lost on her way trying to get to the moon to get some water?!!

 

Que::: “I’ve looked everywhere I can just to find a clue....”

Edited August 28, 2019 at 03:52 AM by Nmj