Courage World Tour - EU shows CANCELED

[Dancing_Queen]

 

 

Which one is SCAR?

 

Si c'était a refaire 😊

[couldawouldashoulda]

Just goes to show she doesn't have to resort to only including "the hits" and random covers.

 

It's true. However, I have always believed (and I may be completely wrong) that the random covers, which in this tour are all male songs (except Lady Marmalade,) are there because she can sing the songs easily. For the men, the songs are in their upper register but, for Celine, they're in her lower register. She can barely belt a D these days. Even her C's can be shaky. Her voice has dramatically changed. She still has the strong upper register in her head but her belt and mix aren't anything like they used to be.

 

Ever since Rene passed, she has moved away from lipping songs if she can help it. That's why The Reason got cut, Flying On My Own, and probably even, Lying Down. She was pretty shaky on the high notes of all those songs. Then You Look At Me, I Ain't Gonna Look The Other Way, The Hard Way, Change My Mind - all have notes that she simply couldn't pull off live and she seems to want to sing live as much as possible these days. That's my theory as to why all the random cover songs from male artists. She can sing the notes once in a studio but night after night, her new music is just as difficult for her to sing live. And the songs that are easier for her to sing might be album fillers for her and not songs that she loves but, rather, help the album to flow better.

 

She still lips the songs she has to have in her show or there would be anarchy - IACBTMN, BYLM, MHWGO, TPOL, ABM (which is an easy song other than the note and the end.) IYAMT she found she was able to lower the key significantly and still (kind of) sing it - the top notes are shaky some nights.

[sarit_celine]

That's pretty much interesting theory. But I also believe there is issues with paying fees for using the songs (Sorry I don't know the exact term for this) which can explain why she almost didn't sing anything new from Courage.

Making acoustic versions and new arrangements can help her to handle the complicated songs better and singing more in Jazz style.

 

I do think that after Rene passed she lost much of the passion for music, something in her eyes keep being off and no wonder why. It would be interesting to hear a new interview from her.

[couldawouldashoulda]

 

I do think that after Rene passed she lost much of the passion for music, something in her eyes keep being off and no wonder why. It would be interesting to hear a new interview from her.

 

It would certainly make sense. She met Rene when she a young girl. For most of her life, Rene and music were intertwined. To go on in the music industry without him has to be incredibly difficult. I think we were lucky we got a world tour 3 months after Vegas ended at all. I'm surprised she didn't take a few years off. And, thanks to the pandemic, I think that's what we're seeing now.

[CSCfan]

Actually, I think it mostly shows that she's prepared to sing deep cuts, as long as she gets the desired audience reaction.

 

Well the audience reaction to the deep cuts in the 2016 tour were overwhelming, yet for the 'Courage' tour her French setlist was absolutely basic.

So I don't really think this is true.

 

 

Lying Down for example had a very lukewarm audience reaction (I saw loads of people going for bathroom breaks, even in the first rows), so it came as no surprise when it was quickly dropped.

 

Well to be fair, LD was a brand new song... and this kinda applies to all new songs that are performed for the first time. New songs (especially these days) need time to find their feet, but if they're already scrapped from the setlist before it's really given a chance (or just performed once / during only 1 tour), it's not really fair. If Céline were to perform LD for the whole Courage tour and her next tour/Vegas residency, and it still gets a lukewarm response, only then we can say it's not really a live performance success. Most of the songs that get an amazing audience reaction, are her big(gest) hits, which is logical and shouldn't really be the reason to not perform a song.

[Danystar]

we should be glad that our dear Celine is doing so many concerts. yes we are tired of the greatest hits tour, but at least we have the pleasure to watch her frequent performances. Some stars give one gig a year or even in some years and I'm sorry for the fans of such singers. As for the songs being cut from the setlist, it's disappointing. I would rather hear every show I drove all night, the reason, LYING DOWN, WDMHBN, I surrender, and it doesn't matter if it was a pre-record.

[Dancing_Queen]

Well the audience reaction to the deep cuts in the 2016 tour were overwhelming, yet for the 'Courage' tour her French setlist was absolutely basic.

So I don't really think this is true.

 

First of all, that was a francophone tour. She can take more chances in French, which makes sense when you think about it; her French albums are always huge sellers, so a significant part of the audience already knows the songs. This is less so for English audiences. There are significantly more people who just want the hits.

 

But I remember in Belgium (mixed french & nonfrench audience), many were actually turned off by her 2016 setlist.

 

Well to be fair, LD was a brand new song... and this kinda applies to all new songs that are performed for the first time. New songs (especially these days) need time to find their feet, but if they're already scrapped from the setlist before it's really given a chance (or just performed once / during only 1 tour), it's not really fair. If Céline were to perform LD for the whole Courage tour and her next tour/Vegas residency, and it still gets...

 

This argument is often repeated on this forum, but it makes no sense.

If you think you can 'teach the audience' what to like, you're assuming it's always the same people watching. Which is simply not the case at all. It's different people so there's no learning curve.

 

Some songs just work better live, known or unknown.

 

Example: Recovering worked well with the audience from the start, even though it was new.

 

Other example: YTV electrifies the crowd, even though it's not well-known in America.

Edited December 7, 2020 at 04:01 PM by Dancing_Queen

[Céline RO]

Si c'était a refaire

 

I love that song and I think it works so well live. I wish she would perform it on the Courage tour too (French shows of course).

[weasley123]

Actually, I think it mostly shows that she's prepared to sing deep cuts, as long as she gets the desired audience reaction.

 

Which is why TLBSEP1 remains in the setlist, TR is often revived, SCAR was kept in the setlist in 2017...and others are quickly scrapped.

 

Lying Down for example had a very lukewarm audience reaction (I saw loads of people going for bathroom breaks, even in the first rows), so it came as no surprise when it was quickly dropped.

 

I wish they had made use of 'first song momentum', opening the concert with LD. because at that point the audience is excited just to see the artist, no matter the song.

 

Lying Down is a new song. How do you expect the audience excited about the song if you previously never promote the song properly? In CD Live 2018, Recovering, a song barely known by general audience except by her die hard fans, always performed. I remember when I saw her in Jakarta, the audience was dead when she sang this song. Very few of the audience knew the song. Yet she always sing it during 2018 tour.

Edited December 7, 2020 at 04:16 PM by weasley123

[Céline RO]

Well the audience reaction to the deep cuts in the 2016 tour were overwhelming, yet for the 'Courage' tour her French setlist was absolutely basic.

So I don't really think this is true.

 

After the amazing 2016 and 2017 setlists, I was quite disappointed with the setlist on opening night in Quebec. What made it worse is that they they kept cutting some of the best songs.

 

Also, I don’t understand why she doesn’t perform her big French hits like “Destin” and “J’irai où tu iras” anymore. If anything, that should be the most disappointing thing about the Courage World Tour, especially for the general audience.

[Céline RO]

But I remember in Belgium (mixed french & nonfrench audience), many were actually turned off by her 2016 setlist.

 

[Céline RO]

 

Some songs just work better live, known or unknown.

 

Example: Recovering worked well with the audience from the start, even though it was new.

 

Other example: YTV electrifies the crowd, even though it's not well-known in America.

 

Completely agree. TLBSEPT works amazingly in America even though it’s an obscure French song. “Le ballet” has had a similar effect on various occasions in the past. I don’t know how well “Imperfections” does with the crowd but I truly don’t believe it works well live at all. It just sounds so underwhelming and, honestly, pretty bad.

[guigafs15]

It's ridiculous to walk out of a concert just because the artist sang a song you don't know. It's a show, not your personal playlist. Enjoy the experience!

[Dancing_Queen]

In CD Live 2018, Recovering, a song barely known by general audience except by her die hard fans, always performed. I remember when I saw her in Jakarta, the audience was dead when she sang this song. Very few of the audience knew the song. Yet she always sing it during 2018 tour.

 

It's not exactly a stand up and dance song though?

 

I saw it performed live a few times both in Vegas and Berlin and the audience always reacted very warmly which is why I think she kept it in for so long. I didn't particularly like the song, but I very much enjoyed her live performances.

 

But maybe it didn't really work well for Asian audiences. Didn't she ditch the song soon after anyway?

 

 

[Dancing_Queen]

 

 

 

I know.

 

When Antwerp dates were announced for CWT, I saw many comments in the vein of 'never again' and 'only if you can assure me she' ll actually sing her hits this time'.

So yeah.

Edited December 7, 2020 at 06:30 PM by Dancing_Queen

[ivo]

But I remember in Belgium (mixed french & nonfrench audience), many were actually turned off by her 2016 setlist.

 

I went to the show on july 9th. Although I loved many songs she performed that night I can imagine that for a casual fan it was too much rare songs. But that really was Célines tour for herself I believe and that’s great.

[mirage]

Yeah I think for the regular fans who thought ey let see Celine she plays nearby, it was a disappointment since the lack of hits.

 

For us who know every album and song it was a magical experience.

 

 

Maybe there should have been an announcement that she is singing her lesser known songs. But I guess that wouldn't sell as good for the regular fans

 

 

 

I went to the show on july 9th. Although I loved many songs she performed that night I can imagine that for a casual fan it was too much rare songs. But that really was Célines tour for herself I believe and that’s great.

[Céline RO]

It's true. However, I have always believed (and I may be completely wrong) that the random covers, which in this tour are all male songs (except Lady Marmalade,) are there because she can sing the songs easily. For the men, the songs are in their upper register but, for Celine, they're in her lower register. She can barely belt a D these days. Even her C's can be shaky. Her voice has dramatically changed. She still has the strong upper register in her head but her belt and mix aren't anything like they used to be.

 

Ever since Rene passed, she has moved away from lipping songs if she can help it. That's why The Reason got cut, Flying On My Own, and probably even, Lying Down. She was pretty shaky on the high notes of all those songs. Then You Look At Me, I Ain't Gonna Look The Other Way, The Hard Way, Change My Mind - all have notes that she simply couldn't pull off live and she seems to want to sing live as much as possible these days. That's my theory as to why all the random cover songs from male artists. She can sing the notes once in a studio but night after night, her new music is just as difficult for her to sing live. And the songs that are easier for her to sing might be album fillers for her and not songs that she loves but, rather, help the album to flow better.

 

She still lips the songs she has to have in her show or there would be anarchy - IACBTMN, BYLM, MHWGO, TPOL, ABM (which is an easy song other than the note and the end.) IYAMT she found she was able to lower the key significantly and still (kind of) sing it - the top notes are shaky some nights.

 

While a lot of this is true, I’m not sure I agree that it’s the difficulty of the songs that matter most. She decided to sing “The Reason” and “Tous les blues sont écrits pour toi” completely live and they’re some of the most difficult songs she’s ever recorded. Moreover, “The Reason” is still in the same key as it was in the late 90s and the only note changes only make it more difficult. Same goes for “Regarde-moi” which she decided to bring back in 2019 and, had it not been for her throat virus, she would have surely nailed it. That’s also a crazy hard song to sing and she sang the exact same version as in 1995. As for the covers, even though many were originally sung by male singers, it does not make them easy songs at all, especially when she decides to raise the key. “You’re the Voice” and “Another One Bites the Dust” both have many C5-D5 belts in them and, thanks to Céline, they now have several F5-G5s too. She chooses seemingly easy songs and makes them more difficult than a lot of her own material. I doubt the songs’ difficulty is really a decisive factor for Céline.

[Céline RO]

But maybe it didn't really work well for Asian audiences. Didn't she ditch the song soon after anyway?

 

Yes, if I’m not mistaken it was last performed in Vegas on November 13th 2018.

[Céline RO]

True. A few years ago, I would have been shocked to hear this song had made a comeback. And it shows Celine is happy and passionate to bring back an old song here and there...

 

Exactly. The 2016 and 2017 tours really changed my (and probably many others’) expectations when it comes to her setlists. A few years ago she would have surprised us big time with such rarities yet nowadays we complain when we only get one or two deep cuts.

[CSCfan]

First of all, that was a francophone tour. She can take more chances in French, which makes sense when you think about it; her French albums are always huge sellers, so a significant part of the audience already knows the songs. This is less so for English audiences. There are significantly more people who just want the hits.

 

Hence why I said the Francophone concerts of the Courage tour.

 

But for that matter, she can also take chances with her Anglophone tours for once ("Taking Chances" tour anyone?).

 

But I remember in Belgium (mixed french & nonfrench audience), many were actually turned off by her 2016 setlist.

 

Sorry to say, but it isn't that hard to turn the Belgian crowd "off". Either she does too many French songs, or too many English ones, or she talks to much or talks too much in French, etc. etc.

 

This argument is often repeated on this forum, but it makes no sense.

If you think you can 'teach the audience' what to like, you're assuming it's always the same people watching. Which is simply not the case at all. It's different people so there's no learning curve.

 

Some songs just work better live, known or unknown.

 

Example: Recovering worked well with the audience from the start, even though it was new.

 

Other example: YTV electrifies the crowd, even though it's not well-known in America.

 

Of course some songs work better live and some don't. This applies for a lot of things (costumes, speeches, etc. etc.).

BUT.... a song from a new album ALWAYS gets less of a response than an older track/hit.

Especially with Céline, she has the "problem" that most of her general audience go to her shows to hear the hits and not new or lesser known songs.

So for example, if there's a moment in the show where you need to get drinks or go to the bathroom, they won't go during BYLM or TPOL, they go during the songs they don't know.

[Chantemoi]

 

 

Especially with Céline, she has the "problem" that most of her general audience go to her shows to hear the hits and not new or lesser known songs.

So for example, if there's a moment in the show where you need to get drinks or go to the bathroom, they won't go during BYLM or TPOL, they go during the songs they don't know.

 

EXACTLY!

So if these people are going to get up and go to the bathroom/bar anyway, then why would anyone logically cater to them?

 

What, we’re only going to add songs to the setlist if they’re so spectacular that the entire audience will be so glued to their seats so that they couldn’t possible rip themselves away to go to the bathroom, because the song is just that enthralling? NEWSFLASH: not everyone there wants to be there. Some people get dragged there and are looking for the first excuse to take a break. Their interest should not even be a factor in this discussion.

[Dancing_Queen]

And yet she does cater to them. Why the cover medleys? She wants to create an experience where most of the audience knows 90 % of the songs.

As a result, casuals want to see her each time she visits their city.

As a result, even reluctant attendees will gladly buy their wife new concert tickets next time Céline hits their town.

 

Which is exactly why Céline is one of the world's highest grossing touring acts.

 

I know some of you may not like it, but you really can't argue with numbers. TC sucks at so many things, but not at their core business, which is touring. With those numbers, clearly, they must be doing something right.

[PuraVida]

Exactly. The 2016 and 2017 tours really changed my (and probably many others’) expectations when it comes to her setlists. A few years ago she would have surprised us big time with such rarities yet nowadays we complain when we only get one or two deep cuts.

 

That is probably because Aldo and Scott Price came into the picture (though I forget exactly when they were on board).... which shows that changing management and teams does wonders!

 

She literally fired Mego and old guard people before, and it seemed to have worked. Don't know why her and us should be averse to that option again.

[smw]

And yet she does cater to them. Why the cover medleys? She wants to create an experience where most of the audience knows 90 % of the songs.

As a result, casuals want to see her each time she visits their city.

As a result, even reluctant attendees will gladly buy their wife new concert tickets next time Céline hits their town.

 

Which is exactly why Céline is one of the world's highest grossing touring acts.

 

I know some of you may not like it, but you really can't argue with numbers. TC sucks at so many things, but not at their core business, which is touring. With those numbers, clearly, they must be doing something right.

 

Very true!

 

No one can deny that Celine Dion and her team know how to sell tickets and make general audiences incredibly happy. The woman is in an elite group when it comes to consistently putting on a fantastic show for as long as she has. Elton, Madonna, & Cher are also up there.

[guigafs15]

 

 

Very true!

 

No one can deny that Celine Dion and her team know how to sell tickets and make general audiences incredibly happy. The woman is in an elite group when it comes to consistently putting on a fantastic show for as long as she has. Elton, Madonna, & Cher are also up there.

 

That is true. But I'm not sure if stick with the old hits always is the only way to do it. I don't follow Elton John, so I don't know how his concerts are, and Cher drop it like 2 albums in 20 years, so it's not like she has much new material to put on a setlist.

 

But Madonna, each tour o hers is focus on the album of the era, and she changes the style of her big hits, she revives old gems, and is still a monster tour seller.

 

What TC does with touring is paying off, for sure, but they could probably get the same results even if a few changes on setlist were made, with attention to the new releases and some fan favorites.

[CSCfan]

And yet she does cater to them. Why the cover medleys?

 

Well, mostly because SHE loves them. I think that's the biggest reason (and not because she's doing it for the audience).

And didn't most reviews for the Courage tour had in common that the cover medley was weird, too long and misplaced?

[nuts2you]

Ticketmaster said no more concerts unless you have a vaccine certification.

Just saw this on the news tonight, So I cant see her doing anything any time soon. at least not until 2022

[todos]

At least we will get one new Song in 2021.

And in 2022 a rested and performing hungry Celine.

Something to look forward to.

Edited December 8, 2020 at 03:05 AM by todos

[PuraVida]

 

 

Very true!

 

No one can deny that Celine Dion and her team know how to sell tickets and make general audiences incredibly happy. The woman is in an elite group when it comes to consistently putting on a fantastic show for as long as she has. Elton, Madonna, & Cher are also up there.

 

She will always put on a fantastic show. Which is why mixing it up could not hurt her

 

Not sure that Madonna always gets favorable reviews. I’m sure these fans have set list complaints too!

Edited December 8, 2020 at 08:41 AM by PuraVida