"Falling Into You" album - Official Topic

[garçon]

I joined the Facebook group so I could listen and I do think they sound amazing- but are we all not pretty sure that Celine did not have a good experience with this whole project and that there was a reason why they have never seen the light of day till now?

 

It makes me uneasy to splash them about social media and on YouTube, just because Phil Spector (even though he was a murdering psycho) has just died and they are his and Céline's work and (his) property.

 

First of all, we know from multiple reliable sources that Celine, along with 'the team', was very happy with the result of (at least) the ITWIGFLY-sessions. The track has been identified as very refined and the highlight of Celine's and Spector's careers. Needless to say: Phil Spector, arguably being the most renowned producer of the twentieth century, was specifically proud of the result too.

Here we have to ascertain the distinction between the very work of art and the creator, the artist/artists involved. In other fields that's not uncommon. As an art historian I can assure you that the artists we most admire are the ones with the worst characters. Historians, therefore, discriminate between the artist and the art work. There's no reason we couldn't or shouldn't do so here too.

 

Then a final note on the so-called interest of Celine herself. Her (and the record label's) interests have become cynical and egocentric. Overall, it is just about making profit. Other than throughout the 90s, she doesn't care for her artistic credibility anymore. Most straight forward evidence: the setlist of the Courage tour. However, I must say, I very much appreciated the intimate and acoustic live renditions of her catalogue, she shared with us the past few months.

Edited April 30, 2021 at 07:20 PM by garçon

[PuraVida]

First of all, we know from multiple reliable sources that Celine, along with 'the team', was very happy with the result of (at least) the ITWIGFLY-sessions. The track has been identified as very refined and the highlight of Celine's and Spector's careers. Needless to say: Phil Spector, arguably being the most renowned producer of the twentieth century, was specifically proud of the result too.

Here we have to ascertain the distinction between the very work of art and the creator, the artist/artists involved. In other fields that's not uncommon. As an art historian I can assure you that the artists we most admire are the ones with the worst characters. Historians, therefore, discriminate between the artist and the art work. There's no reason we couldn't or shouldn't do so here too.

 

Then a final note on the so-called interest of Celine herself. Her (and the record label's) interests have become cynical and egocentric. Overall, it is just about making profit. Other than throughout the 90s, she doesn't care for her artistic credibility anymore. Most straight forward evidence: the setlist of the Courage tour. However, I must say, I very much appreciated the intimate and acoustic live renditions of her catalogue, she shared with us the past few months.

 

I don't think Celine was "all about profit" in the 2000s. I mean, the Miracle album is a huge proof of that. An album of very soft songs alll about children, babies, mothers, and love. She did that because of inspiration and artistic desire.

 

Vegas was also a risk and she did that because she was inspired artistically. It just happened it turned out to be hugely profitable as well.

 

That said, hopefully we get to hear the Phil Spector tracks at some point. Separating the work from the artist also ties around the work of some prison abolitionists....not all people think that the way we treat criminals is right. Which is not to endorse his behavior.

[Del]

I don't know if it's just because the clips are short but I wasn't over impressed. The first song that was originally partly leaked a while back seems nice but the other 2 seem just alright.

 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

 

 

[PuraVida]

I don't know if it's just because the clips are short but I wasn't over impressed. The first song that was originally partly leaked a while back seems nice but the other 2 seem just alright.

 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

 

I think if you hear the isolated clips then it's a bit more impressive.

[PuraVida]

If one follows this logic, we would never allow ourselves to listen to RDMH, because it's a Spector song who apparently wasn't the nicest human being on the planet. The songs didn't harm anyone, it's this guy. Let's not mix things up. Moreover, it's Celines vocal performance that makes these songs interesting, not Spector. It's not like people are just interested in Spectors instrumentals.

 

Yup. Celine has made RDMH a signature part of her repetoire, but let's not forget about her signature Christmas song "Happy Xmas" and the song she closes her song with "Imagine" .... both produced by who? Phil Spector.

[Unisono]

Celine and Phil Spector could have had their English "D'eux" album.

[CelinesDIVO5]

Celine and Phil Spector could have had their English "D'eux" album.

 

I don’t think so. Spector didn’t care about the artists as much as the physical project they were working on. JJG has a warmth about him, a personality that allows him to get to know the people he is working with. Spector never had that.

[Nmj]

If one follows this logic, we would never allow ourselves to listen to RDMH, because it's a Spector song who apparently wasn't the nicest human being on the planet. The songs didn't harm anyone, it's this guy. Let's not mix things up. Moreover, it's Celines vocal performance that makes these songs interesting, not Spector. It's not like people are just interested in Spectors instrumentals.

 

Correct. Just like R.Kelly, I love listening to his music and “I’m Your Angel” is one of my faves. People need to learn to separate the artist from the art.

[Chantemoi]

 

 

First of all, we know from multiple reliable sources that Celine, along with 'the team', was very happy with the result of (at least) the ITWIGFLY-sessions. The track has been identified as very refined and the highlight of Celine's and Spector's careers. Needless to say: Phil Spector, arguably being the most renowned producer of the twentieth century, was specifically proud of the result too.

Here we have to ascertain the distinction between the very work of art and the creator, the artist/artists involved. In other fields that's not uncommon. As an art historian I can assure you that the artists we most admire are the ones with the worst characters. Historians, therefore, discriminate between the artist and the art work. There's no reason we couldn't or shouldn't do so here too.

 

Then a final note on the so-called interest of Celine herself. Her (and the record label's) interests have become cynical and egocentric. Overall, it is just about making profit. Other than throughout the 90s, she doesn't care for her artistic credibility anymore. Most straight forward evidence: the setlist of the Courage tour. However, I must say, I very much appreciated the intimate and acoustic live renditions of her catalogue, she shared with us the past few months.

 

I totally agree with your entire post. Regarding TC/Sony’s interests/reasons for not releasing them, it’s apparent that up until Phil's death their reason for not doing so isn’t because the songs aren’t up to par, but rather because they didn’t own the full rights until very, very recently. (For reasons I won’t go into, I can almost positively confirm that they do now own the full rights. They purchased them from the Spector estate within the past month or two.)

 

So why not release them now? As you suggested, the main reason seems to be their egos. It's rumoured that the sessions ended because Phil got into a heated argument with the Sony rep (was it Dave Platel? Someone remind me), and allegedly threatened him with his gun —as he was known to do in the past (so no surprise there - they had to expect that at some point). Now if Dave Platel was in fact involved) then we are certainly not going to hear these recordings for a few reasons: 1) his bruised ego and Céline’s allegiance to him as her manager, and 2) their team isn’t creative enough to think of a way to distance themselves from Phil’s problematic criminal history... which is NOT entirely impossible. One such example: they could release the tracks and donate all the proceeds to help prevent domestic abuse, or something like that. But as we know, that’s not something that would interest either Céline’s team OR Sony because they aren’t heaps of profits coming back to them.

 

Regarding our own motives, the thoughts you shared about making a distinction between the artist and the art were perfectly stated. We don't know every minute detail in the backstories of all the classic works of art in the world--and while knowing them is fascinating, it shouldn't change our enjoyment of the artwork itself. People still flock to the Pyramids every day and millions if not billions of people still enjoy the music of Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, Phil Spector, etc. In this case, the backstory is sort of tragic and that only makes them more interesting in my opinion.

 

Now, let’s go back to the whole ownership debate. While none of us will ever own the rights to the actual recordings, there’s nothing illegal about owning the tapes themselves—which is what we’re after with the crowdfunding campaign. Once they are procured and the digital files can be privately shared with donors, we can enjoy them (privately) without fear of legal action from Sony.

[PuraVida]

I go back and forth on the issue of separating the art from the artist, personally, but I do know that it is hypocritical to be singing Phil's songs in one breath and then refuse to release your recordings with him because of who he is in the next breath.

 

And Dave Platel doesn't strike me as a very likeable or forgiving person.

[ryba]

Guys, the truth is that we don’t know the reasons behind them not releasing these songs and Dave Platels ego seems like a really unlikely reason for that. Maybe there are some plans behind the scenes now that Spector died. We don’t know. And by the way, Chantemoi, you said that Sony/TC now own the full rights. How do you know? Could you share? Edited May 1, 2021 at 08:13 AM by ryba

[stevo]

If the rights to the songs have now been purchased by the record label, it is certainly more likely that there is an intention to do something with them...

 

Knowing Celine however, her dodging of anything in anyway controversial might make it trickier for any official release. I do love that era of music and I was impressed by the vibe and her voice so would like to hear them in HQ. It’s al very fascinating, the stories from the recordings etc. I’d love Celine to do a tell all interview about it.

[garçon]

I totally agree with your entire post. Regarding TC/Sony’s interests/reasons for not releasing them, it’s apparent that up until Phil's death their reason for not doing so isn’t because the songs aren’t up to par, but rather because they didn’t own the full rights until very, very recently. (For reasons I won’t go into, I can almost positively confirm that they do now own the full rights. They purchased them from the Spector estate within the past month or two.)

 

So why not release them now? As you suggested, the main reason seems to be their egos. It's rumoured that the sessions ended because Phil got into a heated argument with the Sony rep (was it Dave Platel? Someone remind me), and allegedly threatened him with his gun —as he was known to do in the past (so no surprise there - they had to expect that at some point). Now if Dave Platel was in fact involved) then we are certainly not going to hear these recordings for a few reasons: 1) his bruised ego and Céline’s allegiance to him as her manager, and 2) their team isn’t creative enough to think of a way to distance themselves from Phil’s problematic criminal history... which is NOT entirely impossible. One such example: they could release the tracks and donate all the proceeds to help prevent domestic abuse, or something like that. But as we know, that’s not something that would interest either Céline’s team OR Sony because they aren’t heaps of profits coming back to them.

 

Regarding our own motives, the thoughts you shared about making a distinction between the artist and the art were perfectly stated. We don't know every minute detail in the backstories of all the classic works of art in the world--and while knowing them is fascinating, it shouldn't change our enjoyment of the artwork itself. People still flock to the Pyramids every day and millions if not billions of people still enjoy the music of Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, Phil Spector, etc. In this case, the backstory is sort of tragic and that only makes them more interesting in my opinion.

 

Now, let’s go back to the whole ownership debate. While none of us will ever own the rights to the actual recordings, there’s nothing illegal about owning the tapes themselves—which is what we’re after with the crowdfunding campaign. Once they are procured and the digital files can be privately shared with donors, we can enjoy them (privately) without fear of legal action from Sony.

 

For everyone wondering, trying to reed a summary of the whole matter at hand: it's basically all in this post!

Edited May 1, 2021 at 11:52 AM by garçon

[PuraVida]

Guys, the truth is that we don’t know the reasons behind them not releasing these songs and Dave Platels ego seems like a really unlikely reason for that. Maybe there are some plans behind the scenes now that Spector died. We don’t know. And by the way, Chantemoi, you said that Sony/TC now own the full rights. How do you know? Could you share?

 

The reason seems more or less clear. They're not finished songs. They're more like demos, save for the Is This What I Get For Loving You. If I remember, that's the only song they really finished completely.

 

I don't think they'd be in a rush, as Celine is somewhat of a perfectionist in this regard...she wants to record things properly. That said, her team is not risk-taking or innovative or, it seems, very responsive to the (those) fans who really just want to hear the songs.

[celinesounds]

Knowing the history surrounding these songs...the abuse to which Celine was subjected, so much so that she and Rene decided to cut ties with Phil Spector...makes me completely uninterested in hearing them. I certainly wouldn't pay money to someone to release them. How much is this person asking? Someone just looking to make a buck off of property he doesn't own.

 

Bla bla

 

You are wearing clothes made by children,

Your cellphone battery is made with lithium

 

Do you wanna talk about abuses?

 

If you don't care about those songs, I do!

 

 

[couldawouldashoulda]

 

 

Bla bla

 

You are wearing clothes made by children,

Your cellphone battery is made with lithium

 

Do you wanna talk about abuses?

 

If you don't care about those songs, I do!

 

That’s GREAT that you care about the songs. BUT I DON’T. And I’m sick and f****** tired of people on this forum whining and moaning because no one is interested in their stupid f****** Say Yes campaign or not wanting to hear these tracks. I’ll repeat, it’s great that you care about the songs but you and your kind are in the minority.

[guigafs15]

 

 

That’s GREAT that you care about the songs. BUT I DON’T. And I’m sick and f****** tired of people on this forum whining and moaning because no one is interested in their stupid f****** Say Yes campaign or not wanting to hear these tracks. I’ll repeat, it’s great that you care about the songs but you and your kind are in the minority.

 

They're really trying to force everyone to care about this songs... They can't just like the songs, they need to convince other people to like as well. I kinda feel sorry, tbh. I mean, it must be really hard to only being able to enjoy something if everybody else is also enjoying it.

[SuperLove4Celine]

The fact anyone would want to hear this stuff made by a convicted murderer is disgusting beyond words.

[Celinelife]

Music is an art. Why do you hear songs of MJ, he was also accused of rape?

[PuraVida]

That's GREAT that you care about the songs. BUT I DON'T. And I'm sick and f****** tired of people on this forum whining and moaning because no one is interested in their stupid f****** Say Yes campaign or not wanting to hear these tracks. I'll repeat, it's great that you care about the songs but you and your kind are in the minority.

 

No one is forcing you to care. If you don't like what you see, change the channel, as the saying goes.

 

The fact is that the most traffic forum got since the Courage album release was 1) the Courage album release 2) Phil Spector death, music leak, and tape talk 3) announcement of new Vegas show. To say that there is little or "minority" interest in this seems not to be borne out by the evidence. And, even it was only 40%, which I doubt, that means there are thousands or millions who would want to hear and listen to the work.

 

The forum had oodles of people looking at the Phil Spector thread before it got deleted. And if you had been following that thread, and the Facebook group---which you didn't, so you are uninformed---you would know that extensive diaogue and checking went into the process. It's not some random dude in a trench coat looking to make a buck.

 

Maybe someone will finally release a poll on this forum (a correctly worded one) and we could put this debate to rest. Go the Youtube video of the released song snippet, and it is 115 likes to 1 dislike.

 

You may not like that, and that's your right to do so. But stop the distortions. At least you censored yourself this time.

[jpatdeleon09]

As I said before, If you don't like it. Ignore or skip it. Just scroll down or scroll up again and read other topics. Problem solved. No Fights or you really want some fight because of boredom.

[guigafs15]

As I said before, If you don't like it. Ignore or skip it. Just scroll down or scroll up again and read other topics. Problem solved. No Fights or you really want some fight because of boredom.

 

In fact, some of us indeed ignored it. Until someone came in here and complained about the fact the no one was talking about the songs, while judging their interests in other things. So, you kinda need to rethink who is picking up fights out of boredom. Seems like being quite is also not well accepted. Wich makes me think that is all about not being able to deal with differences of opinions and choices. Kinda like "you have to comment, but you have to do it in the way that pleases me".

[jpatdeleon09]

Until someone came in here and complained about the fact the no one was talking about the songs

 

Just ignore it it’s so simple. It will not stop. Someone will complain at any moment. It’s like mood swings. Now, you’re cool and later you want to fight someone. To minimize stress just scroll up and jump to other topics. Stress free.

 

there will be always a pessimistic biatch. Some are just pretending to be a fan and making issues and blah blah.

Edited May 2, 2021 at 07:34 AM by jpatdeleon09

[Celinelife]

Does FIY25 ends here only?

[Dancing_Queen]

 

 

That’s GREAT that you care about the songs. BUT I DON’T. And I’m sick and f****** tired of people on this forum whining and moaning because no one is interested in their stupid f****** Say Yes campaign or not wanting to hear these tracks. I’ll repeat, it’s great that you care about the songs but you and your kind are in the minority.

 

Why do you have to be so damn aggressive all the time?

I often agree with your basic point, but jeez. No need to be such a contrarian smart@ss all.the.time.

 

I couldn't care less about the Say Yes campaign, but surely they have every right to discuss it, be excited, be disappointed about it...

Just ignore the posts you don't care about, it's really not that hard.

[garçon]

That's GREAT that you care about the songs. BUT I DON'T. And I'm sick and f****** tired of people on this forum whining and moaning because no one is interested in their stupid f****** Say Yes campaign or not wanting to hear these tracks. I'll repeat, it's great that you care about the songs but you and your kind are in the minority.

 

whahaha.. can anyone direct Dave Platel's ugly steph daugher to the corner of trolls and fanatic lambs please?

 

What happened to all those knowledgable, genuine, long time Celine Dion fans?

[couldawouldashoulda]

 

 

Why do you have to be so damn aggressive all the time?

I often agree with your basic point, but jeez. No need to be such a contrarian smart@ss all.the.time.

 

I couldn't care less about the Say Yes campaign, but surely they have every right to discuss it, be excited, be disappointed about it...

Just ignore the posts you don't care about, it's really not that hard.

 

It’s my brand. And I’ve said before how they absolutely have the right to discuss it and be excited about it. It’s when they cross the line into badgering the rest of the board,‘who aren’t excited about it, into getting excited, or start saying we’re not really Celine fans that I get ticked off.

[couldawouldashoulda]

 

 

whahaha.. can anyone direct Dave Platel's ugly steph daugher to the corner of trolls and fanatic lambs please?

 

What happened to all those knowledgable, genuine, long time Celine Dion fans?

 

Knowledgeable, genuine, long time Celine fan here. 30 years I’ve been a fan. That doesn’t mean I have to be as excited as you are for paying some random guy for unfinished Celine tracks during which I know she was bullied and scared for her life.

 

It’s like how I can no longer watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Angel because I know the actors I’m watching are being terrorized by an unhinged bully of a director. I don’t get any joy out of that.

 

And I couldn’t care less that there’s no DVD from the 2017 tour. That doesn’t mean I’m not a genuine Celine fan. I flew to London to be at BST. I saw the CWT 6 times. Maybe “real Celine fans” are the ones who don’t actually see her live but just watch YouTube videos and complain about the set list?

[québecflower]

Music is an art. Why do you hear songs of MJ, he was also accused of rape?

if one goes on a playlist , i skip.

[Dancing_Queen]

 

 

It’s when they cross the line into badgering the rest of the board,‘who aren’t excited about it, into getting excited, or start saying we’re not really Celine fans that I get ticked off.

 

If it's in the form of personal attacks, then yeah, I agree.

But if people want to make general statements like 'I can't believe people prefer x over y'... who cares? It's an opinion.

You can voice your own opinion, sure, but you're usually the one making it personal in those instances. Implying people are idiots will never lead to any form of interesting discussion.

 

Can't wait for Céline to get busy again tbh. The excitement makes this board much more enjoyable 😊