"Superwoman" (w/ Diane Warren) - Official Topic

[PuraVida]

When is David doing anything for Celine?

 

In some interview a few years ago, he said he wouldn't know nowadays what direction to take with Celine.

 

I think if Celine does an album of classic songs, Broadway, or covers, then David would be right there with her

[Nmj]

 

 

In some interview a few years ago, he said he wouldn't know nowadays what direction to take with Celine.

 

I think if Celine does an album of classic songs, Broadway, or covers, then David would be right there with her

 

Even a jazz album I bet.

 

And by the way, I’ve never been a fan of Celine recording cover songs… But I always thought the idea of doing a complete cover album would be brilliant. I like the idea of putting them all on one piece of art, and keeping other albums with original songs

Edited September 11, 2021 at 03:50 AM by Nmj

[PuraVida]

Even a jazz album I bet.

 

And by the way, I've never been a fan of Celine recording cover songs… But I always thought the idea of doing a complete cover album would be brilliant. I like the idea of putting them all on one piece of art, and keeping other albums with original songs

 

I think it really depends on the cover, both the choice of song and its execution. It also gets complicated because fans like covers less when her origina songs get ignored in her setlists. Even a good cover needs to be retired after a while.

 

Maybe after he next English album she can do a cover album.

[maki_Dion-er]

No, she was being honest.

 

And you know this how?

[PuraVida]

And you know this how?

 

1) She had no reason to lie 2) Kara wasn't in the room 3) She was dressed in casual clothes with very little makeup after a long recording session, she was presenting and being her authentic self 4) She admitted Kara pressed on but she said she agreed with her approach, so she wasn't afraid to talk about the small impasse they had 5) It was her own private project and behind-the-scenes for fans, she was taking no direction 6) Celine has always proclaimed to be honest, even in 1994 she said (paraphrasing) "Look I'm always honest about how I feel"....she has proven that time after time in her career. 7) Taking Chances whole theme was about honesty, maturity, and taking risks

 

 

Celine was the same way with Barbra who got the same kind of flack. Celine said that Barbra gets seen at as being too controlling and a perfectionist, and Celine said on Larry King that she saw no problem with that. Celine herself is a perfectionist who WANTS to please the producers and execute their vision, and will be at the microphone for 4 hours if she needs to do that.

[Nmj]

 

 

1) She had no reason to lie 2) Kara wasn't in the room 3) She was dressed in casual clothes with very little makeup after a long recording session, she was presenting and being her authentic self 4) She admitted Kara pressed on but she said she agreed with her approach, so she wasn't afraid to talk about the small impasse they had 5) It was her own private project and behind-the-scenes for fans, she was taking no direction 6) Celine has always proclaimed to be honest, even in 1994 she said (paraphrasing) "Look I'm always honest about how I feel"....she has proven that time after time in her career. 7) Taking Chances whole theme was about honesty, maturity, and taking risks

 

 

Celine was the same way with Barbra who got the same kind of flack. Celine said that Barbra gets seen at as being too controlling and a perfectionist, and Celine said on Larry King that she saw no problem with that. Celine herself is a perfectionist who WANTS to please the producers and execute their vision, and will be at the microphone for 4 hours if she needs to do that.

 

4 hours maybe before but “superwoman” sounded like 4 minutes at the mic, which we had the perfectionist in the studio back, I’m afraid she’s gone.

[PuraVida]

4 hours maybe before but “superwoman” sounded like 4 minutes at the mic, which we had the perfectionist in the studio back, I’m afraid she’s gone.

 

I don't know but this "trying something new with a bedroom voice" has lasted 8 years lol. Daniel Merriweather said "fine if you wanna steal my song, I will set a curse on you"

[maki_Dion-er]

 

 

1) She had no reason to lie 2) Kara wasn't in the room 3) She was dressed in casual clothes with very little makeup after a long recording session, she was presenting and being her authentic self 4) She admitted Kara pressed on but she said she agreed with her approach, so she wasn't afraid to talk about the small impasse they had 5) It was her own private project and behind-the-scenes for fans, she was taking no direction 6) Celine has always proclaimed to be honest, even in 1994 she said (paraphrasing) "Look I'm always honest about how I feel"....she has proven that time after time in her career. 7) Taking Chances whole theme was about honesty, maturity, and taking risks

 

 

Celine was the same way with Barbra who got the same kind of flack. Celine said that Barbra gets seen at as being too controlling and a perfectionist, and Celine said on Larry King that she saw no problem with that. Celine herself is a perfectionist who WANTS to please the producers and execute their vision, and will be at the microphone for 4 hours if she needs to do that.

 

1) She has reason to lie because as she's said before, she'd never speak badly about another artist in public. She may think something negative but she won't voice it. 2) doesn't matter, the interview was for public release 4) same as point one. I'm sure Celine may admire Kara for the artist she is, maybe likes her, but that isn't proof that she was totally happy with how Kara was directing her 5) she doesn't need directions to be polite and this wasn't a private project it was to be released & available to everyone. If she spoke negatively Kara would see it. 6) Celine is honest but choosing to keep any negative opinions she may have about someone she has worked with just shows how professional she is.

 

 

Just think of the stories about what happened with Phil Spector. Have you heard her ever speak badly about him? She would have finished the project if Rene hadn't pulled out. That's how much she commits. And it's precisely because she wants to please the people she works with, those that gave her songs, that she will be as accommodateting & respectful as possible.

 

This comment under the youtube video is quite good (made by the guy that asked her about a collab with Mariah)

"Kara is on the verge of forcing Celine to sing it the way Kara would...In the beginning of this clip, Kara is literally explaining how important it is for a singer to have the freedom to interpret the song...and yet she is almost bullying Celine into feeling it the way Kara does...

I met Kara once and she was rude to me. I had to come looking for the way she treated other artists and I see this is just who she is."

 

I wouldn't say Kara was almost bullying but the corrections Kara was giving Celine weren't because Celine was mispronouncing words but about getting her to sing the words/phrase exactly as she would sing them (there's a moment where Kara asks for more "a" in the word "got"). For someone preaching about artistic freedom in this exact video she didn't seem to give Celine very much in what we saw or heard from Celine.

Also,there are moments where Celine looks very muted and down, like she isn't enjoying her time in the studio and this is the only time I've ever seen her like that. She is always happy and energetic and, as you say, wanting to be there as much as needed to get the song right. always asking for input while also offering up different takes. We did not see that here. The difference is noticeable when you watch the full recording sessions video for the album.

 

"Every producer is very different. Some people are easy to work but there's no other way than that way that they want. John, he's flexible, he doesn't make it so so hard so it makes it very pleasant."

 

Funny that this is the quote right after the segment with Kara. In the other segments we see how the producers get along with Celine much more, we get a sense of their dynamic but Kara’s focuses on how minute she was with what she wanted.

 

From the producer of the following song in the documentary

"I kind of try & get a feel of where she's at that evening...You're trying to keep somebody engaged and it can be fun"

 

"He's giving me freedom to 'I want that but then give me your thing' and that's wonderful."

Edited September 11, 2021 at 05:41 AM by maki_Dion-er

[PuraVida]

1) She has reason to lie because as she's said before, she'd never speak badly about another artist in public. She may think something negative but she won't voice it. 2) doesn't matter, the interview was for public release 4) same as point one. I'm sure Celine may admire Kara for the artist she is, maybe likes her, but that isn't proof that she was totally happy with how Kara was directing her 5) she doesn't need directions to be polite and this wasn't a private project it was to be released & available to everyone. If she spoke negatively Kara would see it. 6) Celine is honest but choosing to keep any negative opinions she may have about someone she has worked with just shows how professional she is.

 

1) Kara in that capacity wasn't an artist. 2) As I said, Celine already did admit that she and Kara had an impasse, so she wasn't hiding her feelings and told her frustration. 3) If Celine actually feels negatively or is sugarcoating her harsher opinion, you can almost always tell. There are many examples of this. 4) You are accusing Celine of lying when she says/said she is an open book and when she was quoted in the beginning of her career as always being honest about the way she feels. 5) There are ways to be honest and get your point across with tact.

 

6) Celine is a professional, she can and has worked with people she doesn't like or who are rude. She has. 7) We don't have the entire, unedited footage so we can only go off what we see. 8) One, two, or three bad moments in a studio does not necessarily poison an entire session. 9) You can be frustrated with the process but won over by the end result of the work. The pain is worth the gain. 10) Some producers have different styles.

 

 

About Phil Spector, yes when she was asked about it an interview you can totally tell there was something there. The whole point of this is that producers have different styles and personalities, that's just a fact. I seem to remember Kara also complimenting and hugging Celine, so obviously Kara wouldn't disrespect someone who she *praised* during their studio session and on camera. Could Kara have gone about some moments in a smoother, more gentle way? Sure. But being a perfectionist is not a problem, Celine has said as much. And there is totally a give and take when producing songs about freedom of interpretation....Celine does it very close to the demo and very close producers' wishes. Having good pronunciation is important no matter what else is going on in the rest of the song.

[jpatdeleon09]

And that’s why we need Kara back. To fix things and might bring the old Céline. No sia like or bedroom lazy voice.

[Shaun]

Listened to the All The Way album recently and then Superwoman. Hard to believe they’re from the same artist quite honestly. Edited September 11, 2021 at 07:45 AM by Shaun

[comingback]

Listened to the All The Way album recently and then Superwoman. Hard to believe they’re from the same artist quite honesty.

 

Yep, the ATW album production is amazing. I think it has the best production on a Celine album ever.

 

 

[maki_Dion-er]

 

 

1) Kara in that capacity wasn't an artist. 2) As I said, Celine already did admit that she and Kara had an impasse, so she wasn't hiding her feelings and told her frustration. 3) If Celine actually feels negatively or is sugarcoating her harsher opinion, you can almost always tell. There are many examples of this. 4) You are accusing Celine of lying when she says/said she is an open book and when she was quoted in the beginning of her career as always being honest about the way she feels. 5) There are ways to be honest and get your point across with tact.

 

6) Celine is a professional, she can and has worked with people she doesn't like or who are rude. She has. 7) We don't have the entire, unedited footage so we can only go off what we see. 8) One, two, or three bad moments in a studio does not necessarily poison an entire session. 9) You can be frustrated with the process but won over by the end result of the work. The pain is worth the gain. 10) Some producers have different styles.

 

 

About Phil Spector, yes when she was asked about it an interview you can totally tell there was something there. The whole point of this is that producers have different styles and personalities, that's just a fact. I seem to remember Kara also complimenting and hugging Celine, so obviously Kara wouldn't disrespect someone who she *praised* during their studio session and on camera. Could Kara have gone about some moments in a smoother, more gentle way? Sure. But being a perfectionist is not a problem, Celine has said as much. And there is totally a give and take when producing songs about freedom of interpretation....Celine does it very close to the demo and very close producers' wishes. Having good pronunciation is important no matter what else is going on in the rest of the song.

 

1. The word artist doesn't just apply to singing it also applies to songwriting, which Kara did for this song, as well as produce.

2. But as I said before, Celine is capable of telling half truths. And by saying that it does not negate that she is honest because she has openly stated that she will not speak negatively about her peers & colleagues. It's a bit innocent to think Celine isn't capable of lying, everyone does it (especially people in a career as Celine's) & it's not always done for bad reasons. I mean, aren't fans here always mad that she always says she's an open book but doesn't quite feel as such currently. Wouldn't that be seen as Celine lying? She has also said how much she misses performing for her fans during the pandemic and yet nothing is stopping her from doing an online performance. That's a half truth she gives us because while I believe she does miss performing she clearly doesn't want to actually perform yet. She's enjoying her vacation.

 

Yes, we don't have the full footage but as I said, they specifically chose to show what they did & when compared to the other sessions in the documentary the difference in mood is palpable imo. Producers having different styles is obvious but one of the points I've been arguing is that just because Kara was overbearing w/ Celine does not make her superior to other producers that have gotten excellent performances & pronunciations from her. Fans bring up Kara specifically when talking about Celine needing strong direction. So many times I see the same "she needs Kara again" or as what started my involvement in this topic "she looked like she was about to cry. That makes Kara a good producer".

What makes Kara stick out above all the other producers we have on video working with Celine? The way she was hard on Celine, so when I read people wanting Kara back it seems to me it's as if it were a punishment on Celine for singing the way she supposedly shouldn't.

 

And I don’t know about anyone else but "got" with an "a" sound or "tryn" instead of "trying" aren't good pronunciations.

 

I don't think Kara was trying to disrespect Celine but she knew she was being too much hence the last line we hear from her to Celine.

 

As for my main point...

You and others focus on Celine saying she's fine with Kara’s form of directing while I am more focused on the way she feels during the session and what she said about the other producer which almost directly contradicts the idea that she was totally okay with the way Kara was directing her.

 

All I am saying is that there isn't one fully factual interpretation (as you claimed) because human emotions aren't black and white. Celine may admire Kara but that doesn't completely rule out the possibility of her not liking the way Kara worked with her. And as I showed in my previous post, there are examples from within the same documentary to support my opinion.

 

I also wouldn't like Celine to work with Kara again because I just didn't like what I saw of her there. Not because I don’t think a tough producer is a good thing, imo David Foster was tough but worked well with Celine, but Kara’s attitude just did't seem pleasant to me.

Edited September 11, 2021 at 09:19 AM by maki_Dion-er

[Celinelife]

The one who did Courage is talented. They really brought out Celine's voice, same goes with the director of the music video.

The video couldn't get any better.

Edited September 11, 2021 at 09:22 AM by Celinelife

[browseceline]

The one who did Courage is talented. They really brought out Celine's voice, same goes with the director of the music video.

The video couldn't get any better.

 

You think so? The video is just her doing some balletPoses and it has bad transitions and on the moment suprême you only see a shot of her silhouet doing balletmoves again. Then imperfections really had a viseon. Courage looked like a high school project. Sorry not impressed. She could hire better directors with a much better vision

 

 

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[comingback]

 

 

You think so? The video is just her doing some balletPoses and it has bad transitions and on the moment suprême you only see a shot of her silhouet doing balletmoves again. Then imperfections really had a viseon. Courage looked like a high school project. Sorry not impressed. She could hire better directors with a much better vision

 

 

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I don't know what vision you have for the Courage video, but I like it. Yes, it's simple, but it fits the song.

[comingback]

Delete Edited September 11, 2021 at 10:53 AM by comingback

[Celinelife]

 

 

You think so? The video is just her doing some balletPoses and it has bad transitions and on the moment suprême you only see a shot of her silhouet doing balletmoves again. Then imperfections really had a viseon. Courage looked like a high school project. Sorry not impressed. She could hire better directors with a much better vision

 

 

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That's why it is good, see with videos with a lot going on, like Ashes, How Does A Moment Lasts Forever, Imperfections, people tend to focus less on the songs' meaning. But I think that's what they wanted, they wanted the video to be simple so that people focus on the word, the song itself. And it doesn't have bad transition, neither Celine's ballet is bad there, it is really elegant.

[ryba]

Listened to the All The Way album recently and then Superwoman. Hard to believe they're from the same artist quite honestly.

that is rather a best of album, so it means that all the songs that are included there and taken from other albums were well produced.

 

I already noticed the cheap production with the first version of Unfinished songs, the movie version that was never released, and then again with Superwoman. I think that the cheap sound has something to do with Diane Warren and her team. Apparently this is how they produce.

[PuraVida]

All I am saying is that there isn't one fully factual interpretation (as you claimed) because human emotions aren't black and white. Celine may admire Kara but that doesn't completely rule out the possibility of her not liking the way Kara worked with her. And as I showed in my previous post, there are examples from within the same documentary to support my opinion.

 

 

I choose to take Celine at her at her word, as Celine's half truths are wayyyy fewer than her honest moments and overall honesty, which she has proclaimed for decades.

 

One pet peeve of mine is fans assuming they know how Celine feels without admitting what they're doing is speculation. Like how you said elsewhere that Celine is exhausted and that's why we haven't heard from her except for COVID specials during the pandemic. Did she ever actually say that?

 

Let's call speculation what it is.

Edited September 11, 2021 at 02:40 PM by PuraVida

[Chantemoi]

that is rather a best of album, so it means that all the songs that are included there and taken from other albums were well produced.

 

I already noticed the cheap production with the first version of Unfinished songs, the movie version that was never released, and then again with Superwoman. I think that the cheap sound has something to do with Diane Warren and her team. Apparently this is how they produce.

 

Agreed. It's not the sound quality that is the issue - the vocals and instruments are fine, but it's the way they are layered and mixed that sounds cheap. I wonder who Diane brought in to produce the tracks, and if each individual singer brought in their own crew? I can't seem to find any information about it online ... not even on her website.

[Celinelife]

Seaside is a great song with good production and more songs from the album, I don't Think Diane chose same producers for all songs.

[ryba]

Maybe they didn’t care to polish Superwoman, because it was a reject that didnt make the cut for Courage so it wasn’t further produced, but instead of shelving it she just included it on her own album because it was about to come out and having a Celine song on it is big. She knew that Celine fans would listen and stream anyway, so why bother and invest money in better production when Celine followers will take whatever they get cause they’re crazy for her Edited September 11, 2021 at 04:31 PM by ryba

[maki_Dion-er]

I choose to take Celine at her at her word, as Celine's half truths are wayyyy fewer than her honest moments and overall honesty, which she has proclaimed for decades.

 

One pet peeve of mine is fans assuming they know how Celine feels without admitting what they're doing is speculation. Like how you said elsewhere that Celine is exhausted and that's why we haven't heard from her except for COVID specials during the pandemic. Did she ever actually say that?

 

Let's call speculation what it is.

 

"here are examples from within the same documentary to support my opinion"

 

I literally said it's my opinion, right there in the last sentence of what you quoted. I am taking into account many examples and clearly visible things in the video, it's not like I'm completely making it up out of thin air.

And I never assumed I knew Celine, maybe you need to reread my posts which are pretty detailed as to why I have the position I do.

 

So if Celine doesn't perform during covid, and doesn't show her face unless she absolutely must, what other conclusion can we take other than she doesn't want to be disturbed during her hiatus? She doesn't need to spell it out for us to be able to see what it means. I don't think I've said she was exhausted although it's not unthinkable seeing how she's been performing non-stop for 10 years. It might not look it but a career like hers is no walk in the park, it comes with stressors and we know she doesn't just show up for her two hour shows.

Edited September 11, 2021 at 06:28 PM by maki_Dion-er

[ryba]

"here are examples from within the same documentary to support my opinion"

 

I literally said it's my opinion, right there in the last sentence of what you quoted. I am taking into account many examples and clearly visible things in the video, it's not like I'm completely making it up out of thin air.

And I never assumed I knew Celine, maybe you need to reread my posts which are pretty detailed as to why I have the position I do.

 

So if Celine doesn't perform during covid, and doesn't show her face unless she absolutely must, what other conclusion can we take other than she doesn't want to be disturbed during her hiatus? She doesn't need to spell it out for us to be able to see what it means. I don't think I've said she was exhausted although it's not unthinkable seeing how she's been performing non-stop for 10 years. It might not look it but a career like hers is no walk in the park, it comes with stressors and we know she doesn't just show up for her two hour shows.

For me, Celine totally lost touch with her loyal core fanbase and is nowadays solely focused on the general public and ticket sales. It makes me sad, because I know that when Rene was her manager, he always made sure that fans who cannot attend her shows will also be satisfied in some way, be it through a personal video message to fans or through DVD releases. She is clearly showing her true fans that she is not interested in them in any way. Only the big business matters. Sorry, but that is the reality.

 

Remember when they released OH in 2003 as a gift to all the fans who cannot come to Vegas? Then one year after a live CD of the show was released in 2004. Now she doesn't give a damn about anything. She stores tons of concert and recording footage in the archives and is greedy with it like never before. I wish she could read this and really take this into consideration. I think that I speak on behalf of many fans when I say that I am deeply disappointed recently.

Edited September 11, 2021 at 09:40 PM by ryba

[Dancing_Queen]

As if she has to spend hours signing autographs and taking selfies with her fans? She doesn't make money from it, she just does it.

 

I've said it so many times: Céline is clearly a 'people person'. If there's no 'in person' contact, there's just no fun in it for her. She's said many times that the audience reaction is what makes it all worth it for her.

 

Tell me, do you do things for wotk that you dislike if you don't really have to?

 

[Nmj]

As if she has to spend hours signing autographs and taking selfies with her fans? She doesn't make money from it, she just does it.

 

I've said it so many times: Céline is clearly a 'people person'. If there's no 'in person' contact, there's just no fun in it for her. She's said many times that the audience reaction is what makes it all worth it for her.

 

Tell me, do you do things for wotk that you dislike if you don't really have to?

 

I think Rene was always the “people person”, that’s why she does the autographs and stuff still to this day when In the situation. Celine made it super clear that Rene loved the business and the fans, and though be it harsh I think as her manager he loved the fans more than she did prehaps not to say she isn’t thankful that’s clear she is, but without Rene the extra thought for the fans is no longer there, even Aldo did this well… Celine comes off as an artist who needs to be pushed to do things.

I always remember the scene for the LV dvd in the car when they are on their way to Caesars for the show, and Celine is tired and Rene says,” soon we’ll have a month off”, and Celine says “Oh a month off, just the studio, photoshoot, video shoot , the Oscars…” I think anything other then live performances for Celine for awhile now hasn’t been fun. I think Rene was the middleman that brought the artist of Celine closer to the fan I also remember her not being to keen on the idea of walking the audience in Vegas during the duet with herself and Rene cracked the joke just sign some autographs if you get bored.

[PuraVida]

"here are examples from within the same documentary to support my opinion"

 

I literally said it's my opinion, right there in the last sentence of what you quoted. I am taking into account many examples and clearly visible things in the video, it's not like I'm completely making it up out of thin air.

And I never assumed I knew Celine, maybe you need to reread my posts which are pretty detailed as to why I have the position I do.

 

So if Celine doesn't perform during covid, and doesn't show her face unless she absolutely must, what other conclusion can we take other than she doesn't want to be disturbed during her hiatus? She doesn't need to spell it out for us to be able to see what it means. I don't think I've said she was exhausted although it's not unthinkable seeing how she's been performing non-stop for 10 years. It might not look it but a career like hers is no walk in the park, it comes with stressors and we know she doesn't just show up for her two hour shows.

 

There are multiple speculations we can make about all her moves and many different speculations were made. All I am saying is, let's not act like we know until Celine *tells us*.

 

But then again there will be people who choose in their favoured scenarios to say she is telling half truths whenever it doesn't fit their vision of how Celine "truly is" and what she truly thinks.

 

 

Edit: Anyway, seems we mostly all agree she needs producers to coach her pronunciation. No need to get mired in the weeds of the Kara session, even though I don't mind talking about it, it's really not the point I care about.

Edited September 12, 2021 at 12:59 AM by PuraVida

[Leo]

My take on this: boring song which simply didn't live up to expectations.

 

I want Celine Dion back! Last seen in 2013 when her signature vocals could still be found on every "Loved Me Back To Life" track. She crossed the line on "Courage" with the overuse of the raspy and nasal voice, imitating Sia, Adele, LP. And even on Superwoman her voice sounds odd, not because of its quality, it's something about the way she sings. It's nothing like the stretegic raspy voice on TPOL and ABM which gives goosebumps. She's overusing it now.

 

Call David Foster and Walter Afanasieff, they are needed here.

[SuperLove4Celine]

My take on this: boring song which simply didn't live up to expectations.

 

I want Celine Dion back! Last seen in 2013 when her signature vocals could still be found on every "Loved Me Back To Life" track. She crossed the line on "Courage" with the overuse of the raspy and nasal voice, imitating Sia, Adele, LP. And even on Superwoman her voice sounds odd, not because of its quality, it's something about the way she sings. It's nothing like the stretegic raspy voice on TPOL and ABM which gives goosebumps. She's overusing it now.

 

Call David Foster and Walter Afanasieff, they are needed here.

 

Call the producers...They're needed here.