"Superwoman" (w/ Diane Warren) - Official Topic

[scielle]

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[browseceline]

Anyone listened to Adele’s Easy on me? I like that she stays the way she has always been, not trying to imitate other singer’s voices. She stays true to herself. That is Adele.

Now Celine. She suddenly likes to sing with a creaking bedroom voice, imitating Sia or maybe even Adele…but man Celine has this amazing voice and we know she can do it but she keeps on singing like here on Superwoman. It does not sound pleasant at all. Please Celine sing like you used to do and also take care of pronounciation of the English words you sing..

 

 

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[celinefan1985]

Anyone listened to Adele’s Easy on me? I like that she stays the way she has always been, not trying to imitate other singer’s voices. She stays true to herself. That is Adele.

Now Celine. She suddenly likes to sing with a creaking bedroom voice, imitating Sia or maybe even Adele…but man Celine has this amazing voice and we know she can do it but she keeps on singing like here on Superwoman. It does not sound pleasant at all. Please Celine sing like you used to do and also take care of pronounciation of the English words you sing..

 

 

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Amen! Celine be yourself. Sing with your beautiful register and pronounce again like you did when David Foster was schooling you. Adele is proof that good ballads still wiork. This is Celine’s most forgettable song. Diane Warren has given Celine crap songs judging by the last two...

Edited October 16, 2021 at 01:30 PM by celinefan1985

[actofcontrition]

Its the first song in my Celine history that ive listened one time on the first day and do not feel the need to ever listen again..

[Celinelife]

Its the first song in my Celine history that ive listened one time on the first day and do not feel the need to ever listen again..

It's the first song I ever listened to and after that I thought it didn't even existed.

 

This is such a bad and boring song which made me think it doesn't even exist.

[browseceline]

 

 

 

Amen! Celine be yourself. Sing with your beautiful register and pronounce again like you did when David Foster was schooling you. Adele is proof that good ballads still wiork. This is Celine’s most forgettable song. Diane Warren has given Celine crap songs judging by the last two...

 

And stop fangirling Sia in your concerts. You are no Sia so don’t try to sound like her. You have your own golden signaturesound. That is the sound people love to hear:)

 

 

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[Celinelife]

 

 

And stop fangirling Sia in your concerts. You are no Sia so don’t try to sound like her. You have your own golden signaturesound. That is the sound people love to hear:)

 

 

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And stop singing covers more than the songs you recorded.

[browseceline]

And stop singing covers more than the songs you recorded.

 

Also, it feels like she does not like her own songs, even her new album.

 

 

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[scielle]

 

And stop singing covers more than the songs you recorded.

 

Why?

[Celinelife]

 

 

Also, it feels like she does not like her own songs, even her new album.

 

 

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Lol true. She really puts efforts on covers. But I guess it's justified seeing she might be feeling bored with singing same songs. But then they could keep changing setlists a little to be more exciting.

[Nmj]

 

 

Why?

 

Because she’s not a Karaoke singer. It’s in the face of all the writers and producers who give them the best of themselves, when she continues to ignore them. And before you say her songs are garbage, clearly she doesn’t feel that way or she wouldn’t have recorded them.

[Critiaslux]

Because she’s not a Karaoke singer. It’s in the face of all the writers and producers who give them the best of themselves, when she continues to ignore them. And before you say her songs are garbage, clearly she doesn’t feel that way or she wouldn’t have recorded them.

 

Well, I do understand the sentiment and I would love hearing her sing her repertoire, especially her softer songs that I found jewels, such as Where is the love, Je cherche l'ombre or Toutes ces choses, which scream to be sung live :-) , but good songs are good songs and are meant to be sung by whomever love to give them a voice

 

I believe Céline covering songs is rooted in classical training and her childhood (the fact that she was surrendered by older persons):

 

- in classical music, the art of singing is the performance of songs, the fact that for e.g. an opera you have to "be" the character and respect the spirit of the melody and the initial thought of the composer. Just like Maria Callas said: the most important thing is that you do not deviate from what the composer/writer wanted, and still at the same time make it yours, i.e. embodying the song, without trespassing.

 

- in classical pop, and before the songwriter-singer area, i.e. somewhat before the late 50s, same process was the proper way of being a singer / performer, hence e.g. Lucienne Boyer, Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Doris Day, Nina Simone, etc. or still today Tony Bennett (bless his heart) covering many songs (including foreign, translated or in their original tongue) but still making them their own.

 

I believe that Céline, in this sense, is closer to the school of music of Barbra or Nana Mouskouri than singers of her own generation, like Madonna or Mariah Carey.

[scielle]

Precisely.

 

Would you tell Lang Lang to not play Chopin or Rachmaninoff? Or Anne-Sophie Mutter to not play Vivaldi?

 

To me, Celine is an interpreter of song. She is where she is because of her vocal abilities, not her repertoire. Even the most dismissive critics of the '90s didn't question her technical skill, raw talent, or facility for "selling a song", no matter how naff. The criticism was largely around her choice of material, and understandably so, because so much of it is so formulaic, so obviously designed by a committee of A&R execs to hit the broadest possible demo given what was popular at the time (at least in her commercial heyday, less so now). And it worked, as evidenced by her huge global following, including in territories where English is not the primary language, and where more intricate material would not have worked.

 

She's basically the polar opposite of someone like Leonard Cohen - someone known for his intricate poetry and songcraft, but certainly not his singing. (He famously joked, after winning "Best Male Vocalist" Juno, that only in country like Canada would he be considered a singer!) Celine's the other end of that spectrum.

 

And judging by the songs she chooses as covers, she's clearly more attached to the stuff she grew up with in the '70s, stuff her siblings were listening to when she was at an age when most people develop the musical taste that tends to stay with them for lifetime, than much of the material she recorded. We know A&R execs present her with a shortlist of choices, and she picks from that. She has said before she wasn't particularly drawn to ballads, that she was much more of a "rocker chick", but ballads worked and so that's what she ended up doing. And I'm not surprised if she's not particularly attached to many of those songs.

 

So yes, I would absolutely agree she comes more from the school of a classical vocalist or performer (back when songwriting was a separate, 9-5, salaried profession!), harking back more to the era of Rene's youth, than the singer-songwriter artists that are her contemporaries. I think Carl Wilson addressed this quite well in his book. And it all makes perfect sense given Rene's start in the business. (See this doc; it was basically a paint-by-numbers remake factory).

 

Sure, there are some great, original, memorable songs in her recorded repertoire, but they're the exception rather than the norm, and many of them are covers. And great songs are great songs for a reason, so yes, I'd much rather hear her sing timeless classics - regardless who was first to record them - than some Hallmark-card throwaway designed to fit a particular pop trend at the time, just because she happened to be the original recording artist.

 

Anyway, since I've been listening to it while typing this, here's Lang Lang performing Rachmaninoff's Concerto #2 in C minor (a.k.a. All by Myself)

It's 120+ years old but a great interpreter like Lang Lang or Celine making it their own doesn't make either of them any less of an artist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-x01ddG0x4&t=840s

Edited October 21, 2021 at 03:05 AM by scielle

[Chantemoi]

Precisely.

 

Would you tell Lang Lang to not play Chopin or Rachmaninoff? Or Anne-Sophie Mutter to not play Vivaldi?

 

To me, Celine is an interpreter of song. She is where she is because of her vocal abilities, not her repertoire. Even the most dismissive critics of the '90s didn't question her technical skill, raw talent, or facility for "selling a song", no matter how naff. The criticism was largely around her choice of material, and understandably so, because so much of it is so formulaic, so obviously designed by a committee of A&R execs to hit the broadest possible demo given what was popular at the time (at least in her commercial heyday, less so now). And it worked, as evidenced by her huge global following, including in territories where English is not the primary language, and where more intricate material would not have worked.

 

She's basically the polar opposite of someone like Leonard Cohen - someone known for his intricate poetry and songcraft, but certainly not his singing. (He famously joked, after winning "Best Male Vocalist" Juno, that only in country like Canada would he be considered a singer!) Celine's the other end of that spectrum.

 

And judging by the songs she chooses as covers, she's clearly more attached to the stuff she grew up with in the '70s, stuff her siblings were listening to when she was at an age when most people develop the musical taste that tends to stay with them for lifetime, than much of the material she recorded. We know A&R execs present her with a shortlist of choices, and she picks from that. She has said before she wasn't particularly drawn to ballads, that she was much more of a "rocker chick", but ballads worked and so that's what she ended up doing. And I'm not surprised if she's not particularly attached to many of those songs.

 

So yes, I would absolutely agree she comes more from the school of a classical vocalist or performer (back when songwriting was a separate, 9-5, salaried profession!), harking back more to the era of Rene's youth, than the singer-songwriter artists that are her contemporaries. I think Carl Wilson addressed this quite well in his book. And it all makes perfect sense given Rene's start in the business. (See this doc; it was basically a paint-by-numbers remake factory).

 

Sure, there are some great, original, memorable songs in her recorded repertoire, but they're the exception rather than the norm, and many of them are covers. And great songs are great songs for a reason, so yes, I'd much rather hear her sing timeless classics - regardless who was first to record them - than some Hallmark-card throwaway designed to fit a particular pop trend at the time, just because she happened to be the original recording artist.

 

Anyway, since I've been listening to it while typing this, here's Lang Lang performing Rachmaninoff's Concerto #2 in C minor (a.k.a. All by Myself)

It's 120+ years old but a great interpreter like Lang Lang or Celine making it their own doesn't make either of them any less of an artist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-x01ddG0x4&t=840s

 

Well said, Scielle. Most of us here have complained about her recent setlists being dull and uninspired, but every point you made is valid. It's only because I know she has so many great songs of her own repertoire (covers included) that haven't been performed live or, if so, rarely, that I still have qualms about her resorting to so-called cover medleys. For all we know, her days of recording albums of "original" material (not made famous by someone else) are behind her, and that's why I still think it's a shame she hasn't sung many of those songs to this day (Courage songs, especially - they were so well-suited to her current voice and capability). She can sing all the covers she wants, but I'd really love to see her pull out some deep cuts every so often, particularly from her English albums.

[PuraVida]

Because she’s not a Karaoke singer. It’s in the face of all the writers and producers who give them the best of themselves, when she continues to ignore them. And before you say her songs are garbage, clearly she doesn’t feel that way or she wouldn’t have recorded them.

 

 

Celine said during a Courage promo interview that her favourite songs are the B-sides a lot of the time. I think she definitely knows her old repetoire is there and she sings them sometimes at random moments or on her own.

 

The issue is transferring them over to the stage. Hopefully it happens during whatever phase comes next.

[actofcontrition]

 

 

 

Celine said during a Courage promo interview that her favourite songs are the B-sides a lot of the time. I think she definitely knows her old repetoire is there and she sings them sometimes at random moments or on her own.

 

The issue is transferring them over to the stage. Hopefully it happens during whatever phase comes next.

 

That is why i don’t buy it when she is saying she has nothing to prove anymore.

[Celinelife]

Remember when she sang When I Need You in The Voice for a bit..god she sounded better than the original audio. I wish we could hear it live one day.

[Dancing_Queen]

Remember when she sang When I Need You in The Voice for a bit..god she sounded better than the original audio. I wish we could hear it live one day.

 

Don't you mean "Gwen, I need you"? 😂 (god, I love her)

[Céline RO]

Remember when she sang When I Need You in The Voice for a bit..god she sounded better than the original audio. I wish we could hear it live one day.

 

And “Love is On the Way” in 2016! Amazing!

[JulienMcbeal]

I love covers so I don't mind Celine's doing them. I just ache a little 'cause they seem less inspired than what she did before as covers. Not entirely making them her own.

And let's be honest: how ABM would have sound without David Foster? Look what she did with Summertime. She didn't make it her own like Janis Joplin did. It was interesting and different... cause it was David Foster's version (that he made for a younger singer months earlier).

 

I totally agree that Celine is more of a Classical chanteuse, having a nack for edgier sounds, worshipping great artists from the past (from her siblings and René's youth...).

But I also thinks that power ballad fits her more. She was part of the redefinition of it in the 90s. I know she doesn't love some of them (some from the very beginning, some from singing over and over). But I think it partially comes from that human tendency to hate what you love. You know, when you're fed up with a job you also love.

Let's not forget she always screamed her love for Barbra and Ginette. What were they singing when Celine was pre-teen? I am a Woman in Love and Je ne suis qu'une chanson.

 

Plus, if Celine wanted a BIG career for the long haul, she had to do what was IN at the time, to then build her long-term career. That's exactly what René did.

 

What baffles me is, now that she's "freed" from the need of commercial succes with her songs and records, why doesn't she lean more into what would be her real musical taste in her own material? Sure, typical power ballads are fewer and fewer presents in her albums. Courage was the most "in the now" album we had from a long time.

But where is her Jazz album? Her Queen tribute album? Heck, why not a Lennon Tribute? Or even just a "karaoke album", as some would call it, covering the "great american songbook", her favorite artists... That's typically the kind of projects Legendary Artists do.

She could record them and not include them in her shows - as the Courage tour proved.

That's just the woman in me and Can't fight the feeling didn't last long during TCWT... and it's not like she didn't have the lypsinc option.

Edited October 22, 2021 at 12:10 PM by JulienMcbeal

[Celinelife]

To be honest, no hatred, but Celine is having this attitude thinking that whatever she releases would be loved because she is an icon and is loved. But clearly it's not like that, and I hoped the dropping of Courage would've taught the team the "creative promotional mind" they lack. But no, it didn't happen.

 

Hope Celine and her team loses this attitude, even if she is a Icon doesn't make all her songs good and hits. So try to promote, I mean there could be a lot of stuffs you can do without approvals of Sony or anyone but Celine.

[jpatdeleon09]

“ Celine is having this attitude thinking that whatever she releases would be loved because she is an icon and is loved.”

 

WHAT?????? LOL

[Celinelife]

“ Celine is having this attitude thinking that whatever she releases would be loved because she is an icon and is loved.”

 

WHAT?????? LOL

I'm not meaning something bad.

[Céline RO]

To be honest, no hatred, but Celine is having this attitude thinking that whatever she releases would be loved because she is an icon and is loved. But clearly it's not like that, and I hoped the dropping of Courage would've taught the team the "creative promotional mind" they lack. But no, it didn't happen.

 

Hope Celine and her team loses this attitude, even if she is a Icon doesn't make all her songs good and hits. So try to promote, I mean there could be a lot of stuffs you can do without approvals of Sony or anyone but Celine.

 

I don’t see any of that attitude in what she does. I get the sense that she just doesn’t really care as much anymore about the commercial success of the music she puts out. She records whatever she likes and feels and doesn’t bother promoting it much because why would she, if she likes it then that’s all that matters. Her performing career is a whole other thing though; she’s clearly much more into that and wants success not least because she has a contract to fulfill. I actually think that her not performing many new songs in her shows is not really her preference, she would love to perform a whole show full of Courage songs but it’s a concession she has to make in order to keep selling millions of tickets all around the world.

[No1IrishFan]

 

 

I don’t see any of that attitude in what she does. I get the sense that she just doesn’t really care as much anymore about the commercial success of the music she puts out. She records whatever she likes and feels and doesn’t bother promoting it much because why would she, if she likes it then that’s all that matters. Her performing career is a whole other thing though; she’s clearly much more into that and wants success not least because she has a contract to fulfill. I actually think that her not performing many new songs in her shows is not really her preference, she would love to perform a whole show full of Courage songs but it’s a concession she has to make in order to keep selling millions of tickets all around the world.

 

I agree with most of what you’ve said here, but that last part isn’t true. If she wanted to sing the songs from Courage she could add 3-4 at least into the setlist. It is the Courage tour, not a greatest hits tour. I’ve never once been to a gig supporting an album and the artist sings only one song from the album. That is ridiculous. Yes to artists finding the balance between old and new but Celine clearly couldn’t care any less about the songs from Courage. She has the opportunity but doesn’t take it. Just my two cents 😊

[ryba]

I know that it’s a matter of individual taste, but I don’t mind her not singing Courage songs in her shows. Quite frankly, it’s not my favourite album. I must admit that the songs are extremely well produced, you really hear the outstanding quality of sound and the production. But there are maybe 3 or 4 songs on it that I really like. The slow and stripped down ballads just don’t do it for me. I would prefer to hear songs from OH, ANDHC or, like they did in 2016 1F&4T. These songs have power and emotion and they can give you goosebumps while listening. Her catalog from the 00s includes some real gems that she never performed live. Even though they really made sure that in Courage the lyrics for the songs fits her current state, the songs, apart from a very few exceptions, are not overwhelming. Edited October 23, 2021 at 09:46 AM by ryba

[Céline RO]

I know that it’s a matter of individual taste, but I don’t mind her not singing Courage songs in her shows. Quite frankly, it’s not my favourite album. I must admit that the songs are extremely well produced, you really hear the outstanding quality of sound and the production. But there are maybe 3 or 4 songs on it that I really like. The slow and stripped down ballads just don’t do it for me. I would prefer to hear songs from OH, ANDHC or, like they did in 2016 1F&4T. These songs have power and emotion and they can give you goosebumps while listening. Her catalog from the 00s includes some real gems that she never performed live. Even though they really made sure that in Courage the lyrics for the songs fits her current state, the songs, apart from a very few exceptions, are not overwhelming.

 

I agree but that’s precisely why I think she should perform them now. They’re still good songs but most of them are not outstanding or memorable enough for her to perform them years from now, it’s now or never really if one wants to hear them live.

[ryba]

I think that she should bring the album tv specials back (famous artists in Germany for example started doing it), or a one night only concert like the pandora one for LMBTL or USF. This would give her the opportunity to perform and promote all her new songs live, release that special as cd and dvd to please her fans and keep performing her greatest hits on her tours for the general public without worrying that her new songs remain unused. Edited October 24, 2021 at 07:19 AM by ryba

[scielle]

Diane Warren was on CBC's Q with Tom Power today. You can listen to the 13-min interview here: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-50-q/clip/15874783-legendary-songwriter-diane-warren-finally-putting-name-front

 

She talks a bit about Superwoman and Because You Loved Me.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 at 04:14 AM by scielle

[PuraVida]

Diane Warren was on CBC's Q with Tom Power today. You can listen to the 13-min interview here: https://www.cbc.ca/l...ting-name-front

 

She talks a bit about Superwoman and Because You Loved Me.

 

I found Diane not very enlightening in this interview. She was asked "What makes a great song?" and she said "Good lyrics and good melody".... very simple answers.