ICM Partners Drops Celine Dion As Client For Not Paying Commission

[smw]

It tickles me that her team is now promoting merchandise on her social media.

 

Who knows! Maybe this debacle will give Celine a little nudge to get out there again & hustle like Reba / Mariah / Dolly / etc.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 at 10:04 PM by smw

[PuraVida]

So, just to be clear, this whole decision has nothing to do with the cancelling of Courage Tour due to Covid-19 right?

 

Postponement*

[scielle]

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[scielle]

Ouch!

 

“ Dion:

“I have paid Mr. Prinz many millions of dollars over the years. And when this all started, my team made an extremely generous offer to pay him and ICM many more millions for years to come, even though our old agreements were over and we had not made a new one. I’m not saying that Mr. Prinz did not do anything, but he’s taking much more credit for my career than he deserves. Mr. Prinz had never asked to be paid for 10 years for a few months’ work, and I never agreed to it.

 

“When Rene was alive, he took care of my business and was always very fair with the people we worked with, and he taught me to be the same. Because he wasn’t here to stand up for me at the hearing, I feel like Mr. Prinz and ICM took advantage with their demands for money and revealing confidential information about my AEG deal. I feel betrayed.””

[rfkavanagh]

Well, this is the most exciting thing to happen in Céline's career in years! Where's the popcorn?!

[Peppercorn1991]

Wow. Never heard Celine talk like this ...

 

Kev x

[Tricey3115]

https://etcanada.com/news/715631/celine-dion-feels-betrayed-after-clc-rules-she-has-to-pay-almost-650-million-in-unpaid-commissions/amp/

 

Why does this article say she owes $650 million that’s impossible commissions wouldnt be that much like that’s almost her entire networth. And she doesnt handle her money why wouldnt this be the fault of her team if it were true but i think these people are trying to take advantage of her and get more money just to be greedy. Like she will win this lawsuit. I wish rene was still here he always protected her from idiots like this

Edited November 20, 2020 at 02:00 AM by Tricey3115

[DionFanAlways]

This is the dangerous aspect about not being involved in your business dealings. It's the way she wanted it she says but you should always know what's going on in the kitchen. I guess it's a crash course in business management. When it comes to this amount of money a handshake and reputation doesn't go very far. Edited November 20, 2020 at 02:18 AM by DionFanAlways

[zuv]

650 million!! Gulp! How much is she even worth?

[Nmj]

650 million!! Gulp! How much is she even worth?

 

 

650 million Canadian or about 497 million USD.

Celine’s gonna have to sign on for 15 more years of Vegas shows to pay for this. Makes sense why she’s selling all these properties lately.

Edited November 20, 2020 at 03:05 AM by Nmj

[scielle]

650 million!! Gulp! How much is she even worth?

 

That’s wrong. Whoever wrote that simply converted the value of her deal to CAD. What she actually owes, supposedly, is 1.5%-3% of that. So if you assume a blended 2.25% rate, that’s about US$11m, or CAD$15m.

[scielle]

Well, this is the most exciting thing to happen in Céline's career in years! Where's the popcorn?!

 

I’d say! She’s not use to this kind of drama. Rene knew how to avoid it.

[Tricey3115]

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/legal-and-management/9486266/celine-dion-loses-agent-touring-deal

 

Yeah it says here only 13m

[Nmj]

Of course I’m always on “team Celine” but after reading the article, If I must say, I think Mr. Prinz was only taking what they agreeed to, whether it was Renè or someone else who agreed to that sum of monies it must have been iron clad for the court to rule in his favor. A contract is a contract. But part of me now believes in some way, this is why we also saw the departure of Aldo.

 

The part of Celine’s statement where she basically says Renè was always “generous” with the people they worked with leads me to believe she never knew just how much Renè was paying the people around her, and she clearly doesn’t think their worth that much, or at least in this situation, that’s also obvious in the part where she says that Mr Prinz takes too much credit for her career.

 

I think it’s clear that Celine does things very different from how René did. Considering how great of a manager René was, I’m not sure that’s such a good thing.

[smw]

I think it’s so refreshing to see this fierce side of Celine. “...he’s taking much more credit for my career than he deserves.”

 

She’s fired up and I love it!

 

Edited November 20, 2020 at 04:39 AM by smw

[Nmj]

I think it’s so refreshing to see this fierce side of Celine. “...he’s taking much more credit for my career than he deserves.”

 

She’s fired up and I love it!

 

At 52 Celine is finally becoming the diva they wanted her to be in the 90s!

[jpatdeleon09]

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[jpatdeleon09]

For sure Céline by now have billions of dollars. Together with Rene’s money.

 

And Céline needs a great manager. Like now. As in now.

[scielle]

Airing dirty laundry... but for a music business nerd, this reporting has some fascinating nuggets!

 

Case and point:

 

"The contract covering the AEG-produced Celine residency and Courage World Tour began in 2017 and plays through 2026 and includes $272 million in guaranteed income to Dion for 544 concerts in Las Vegas, $212 million for 198 touring shows and a $5 million signing bonus. On a per show basis, that's $500,000 per Las Vegas residency performance and $1,075,000 per touring show.

[...]

Shortly after the AEG deal was signed in early 2017, Giampaolo was fired and replaced by David Platel, who had previously managed Dion alongside Angélil, and Denis Savage, a long-time Dion touring vet who had worked as a sound engineer and tour director on the singer's previous Power of Love tours. Around the same time, Dion's finances were audited by accounting firm Deloitte & Touche, who flagged Prinz's commission structure -- at least $7,500 per Vegas show and a minimum $32,250 per touring date -- as being “exorbitant” and “very high.”"

 

Among other very interesting bits in that article.

Seems she actually testified! (And was deemed "not credible"? That's a first!)

 

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/legal-and-management/9486266/celine-dion-loses-agent-touring-deal/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[scielle]

For sure Céline by now have billions of dollars.

 

Not so. The media likes to throw around big headline numbers but she pockets a fraction of that. Touring is obviously her livelihood, but clearly off the table or the moment, and it's not like she's making any real money off of recording anymore. I don't think she'll be seeing any royalties from Courage for years to come, given how much it appears they spent recording that thing over the course of years. It'll take a long time for Sony to recoup that advance and recording costs.

 

It's not at all uncommon for someone in her position - who came from nothing to sudden, big money - to have no real grasp on how to manage it. She and Rene clearly splurged on property, for example, and it's well documented he was spending beyond his means long before he could afford it.

It's just conjecture on my part, of course, but I totally wouldn't be surprised that's in part why she's liquidating property.

Sure, the amount she owes is over a number of years, but $13m or so is still a chunk of change, even for her.

 

But yes, on this front, I concur -

And Céline needs a great manager. Like now. As in now.

Edited November 20, 2020 at 06:01 AM by scielle

[Nmj]

 

 

Not so. The media likes to throw around big headline numbers but she pockets a fraction of that. Touring is obviously her livelihood, but clearly off the table or the moment, and it's not like she's making any real money off of recording anymore. I don't think she'll be seeing any royalties from Courage for years to come, given how much it appears they spent recording that thing over the course of years. It'll take a long time for Sony to recoup that advance and recording costs.

 

It's not at all uncommon for someone in her position - who came from nothing to sudden, big money - to have no real grasp on how to manage it. She and Rene clearly splurged on property, for example, and it's well documented he was spending beyond his means long before he could afford it.

It's just conjecture on my part, of course, but I totally wouldn't be surprised that's in part why she's liquidating property.

Sure, the amount she owes is over a number of years, but $13m or so is still a chunk of change, even for her.

 

But yes, on this front, I concur -

 

13 million is money she doesn’t want to pay, but it’s still chump change for someone with her career and if it isn’t, they didn’t do something right.

[Shamrock_1982]

Celine’s from finally learned “the hard way” that she needs a manager.

 

Sometimes people need a wake up call, she and her team have been winging it for way too long.

 

C.V’s please.... Celine will see you now! Lol

[jpatdeleon09]

I thought her team is doing a good job.. but not. I wonder where are some of the people that were part of the team when Rene was still alive

 

Where’s Patrick? I thought he’ll be the one managing Céline. I’m assuming that Rene teaches Patrick to manage Céline’s career if he’ll die.

 

With Aldo... what happened? Why the sudden exit?

Edited November 20, 2020 at 07:22 AM by jpatdeleon09

[joaofilho]

I think he is being very greedy, I agree that in a broken contract, the party must pay a fine, but pay all the commissions without having done a show, it is absurd.

I hope Celine wins in court.

[ryba]

It’s actually very simple.

 

If Rene was her manager, he would keep the rates for Mr Prinze, as did Aldo. Celine would trust Rene and would perform. Now that Rene and Aldo are gone, Celine only now realised how much money she pays for that agent and wants to change it, but she is under a contract that was closed before she realised how high the rates are. I don’t think she has good chances to win that case.

Edited November 20, 2020 at 12:25 PM by ryba

[ryba]

Well, it looks like despite all there is an agreement/contract between them:

 

Prinz began representing Dion in 1989 and had previously negotiated his commission with Angélil who passed away in 2016. When Angélil became too sick to manage Dion, longtime collaborator Aldo Giampaolo took over management and agreed to continue paying Prinz the 1.5-3% commission structure approved by Angélil. Dion, however, says Prinz took advantage of the situation.

 

 

This part made me laugh:

 

Dion’s attorneys first argued that the payments were part of a new contract that never was finalized, then Dion apparently contradicted her team when she testified that “Prinz never agreed to a new contract and Dion paid him ‘to be nice.’”

 

 

I undestand her perspective here; however, there is a contract between them, and a contract is a contract, therefore her chances to win this appear small.

 

“When Rene was alive, he took care of my business and was always very fair with the people we worked with, and he taught me to be the same,” Dion told Billboard in a statement. “Because he wasn’t here to stand up for me at the hearing, I feel like Mr. Prinz and ICM took advantage with their demands for money and revealing confidential information about my AEG deal. I feel betrayed.”

Edited November 20, 2020 at 12:48 PM by ryba

[manu23]

I think I get Celine's point. As she says, Rene was always very generous to everyone. I think he was also kind of gentleman's agreement kind of person. As that other article mentions, Deloitte & Touche flagged Prinz's commission was very high. Rene probably agreed to pay these guys much more than the avg. in the business and now Celine feels betrayed that despite probably making those guys rich, they were not able to accept her offers. Yes, it might be that they are right as per the contract. But if you know that someone has been paying you a much higher commission level that they should, maybe you need to be grateful too..

 

Celine is learning the hard way that not everyone is as generous as Rene was, and that better not to trust anyone when it comes to money. But she will be fine, I'm sure Prinz loses more with this than her. They are just mad their milking cow moved somewhere else.

Edited November 20, 2020 at 12:39 PM by manu23

[Céline RO]

It’s funny to me that people are saying “this wouldn’t have happened under René’s management because he was a good manager”. Yes, it wouldn’t have happened if René were still in charge but that’s because René would’ve kept paying the guy what they had agreed on and the guy wouldn’t have anything to complain about. Aldo, who was in my opinion a continuation of René’s rule, signed the deal, which is exactly what René would’ve done. It’s Céline and her post-2017 team who decided to go against it all. Whether it was right or wrong I don’t know. Perhaps the guy was getting paid too much. What matters is that there was a contract there which simply can’t be ignored. Aldo is not the one to blame for all of this. He was simply continuing in the same manner as René would’ve done and, honestly, I’m gutted to learn that Céline fired him. He was a great manager and I’m sure he would’ve handled the whole Courage/Pandemic era a lot better.

 

Céline’s the one who got herself into this, with her so called “management”, of course. I’m looking forward to the days when she will finally have a wise and competent team again. The best is yet to come.

[ryba]

It’s funny to me that people are saying “this wouldn’t have happened under René’s management because he was a good manager”. Yes, it wouldn’t have happened if René were still in charge but that’s because René would’ve kept paying the guy what they had agreed on and the guy wouldn’t have anything to complain about. Aldo, who was in my opinion a continuation of René’s rule, signed the deal, which is exactly what René would’ve done. It’s Céline and her post-2017 team who decided to go against it all. Whether it was right or wrong I don’t know. Perhaps the guy was getting paid too much. What matters is that there was a contract there which simply can’t be ignored. Aldo is not the one to blame for all of this. He was simply continuing in the same manner as René would’ve done and, honestly, I’m gutted to learn that Céline fired him. He was a great manager and I’m sure he would’ve handled the whole Courage/Pandemic era a lot better.

 

Céline’s the one who got herself into this, with her so called “management”, of course. I’m looking forward to the days when she will finally have a wise and competent team again. The best is yet to come.

I see it just as you

[ryba]

Moreover, if they were really smart, they would try to use this Pandemic to make money with her music and music related material and achieve solid sales, but instead they are passive as can be Edited November 20, 2020 at 01:38 PM by ryba