ICM Partners Drops Celine Dion As Client For Not Paying Commission

[maki_Dion-er]

Without reading the contract, it's impossible to say whether a letter is sufficient to terminate the contractual relationship in this case.

 

What I meant with that is that it's proof that ICM/Rob were lying about dropping Celine because she's the one that left them. Unless what you're trying to say is that if the letter wasn't sufficient (would they bring it up if it weren't though) then ICM would be able to now decide to "officially" drop her in order to sue her for the supposed commissions she owes them.

 

I doubt this is the case. ICM would have claimed Celine trying to unjustly try to back out of their contract and claim that as part of their issues against her. But it doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I could be wrong but to me it's just a case of a large company trying to get more money out of her before/after she leaves them.

 

 

[scielle]

What I meant with that is that it's proof that ICM/Rob were lying about dropping Celine because she's the one that left them. Unless what you're trying to say is that if the letter wasn't sufficient (would they bring it up if it weren't though) then ICM would be able to now decide to "officially" drop her in order to sue her for the supposed commissions she owes them.

 

Correct.

Termination clauses are rarely as simple as "either party may terminate this agreement by written notice".

They are usually paragraphs, or pages, long. Many requirements need to be met before the contractual relationship is terminated.

 

ICM clearly feels she did not satisfy the termination provisions. She feels otherwise.

 

I could be wrong but to me it's just a case of a large company trying to get more money out of her before/after she leaves them.

 

This is very clearly a disagreement in the interpretation of contractual terms, and both parties have the legal right to make their interpretation known and pursue damages.

 

That being said, it's also quite clear (from articles such as this, for instance) that she was Rob Prinz's main client, and probably one of ICM's top accounts. So they have every incentive to pursue what they feel they are owed, and have the legal muscle power to do so.

But given the length of her relationship with Prinz, it's sad to see it play out in public.

 

And perhaps they are owed, perhaps they aren't. Without seeing the legal paperwork, none of us here can possibly know.

[Xpresso]

I'm sure that Celine's lawyers had a good look at the agreement before terminating it. But the strange part is why would Celine's team make various offers to ICM if she was in the right to terminate the agreement???

 

[scielle]

I'm sure that Celine's lawyers had a good look at the agreement before terminating it.

 

I'm sure they did. And while contracts are extensive and aim to very explicitly define specific terms and cover every eventuality - doesn't mean lawyers always agree on the interpretation.

A judge's job, after all, is to interpret the law.

 

But the strange part is why would Celine's team make various offers to ICM if she was in the right to terminate the agreement???

 

I suspect she / her lawyers feel they have rightfully terminated the relationship and offered to make a good-faith termination payment of $xx. (It's likely the terminating party would have to make the other party whole in some way in the case of early termination.)

Meanwhile, ICM probably feels whatever agreement they had was not rightfully terminated, and by virtue of provision xyz, they feel she actually owes them $yy.

 

So, she feels she terminated them and offered to pay them out, while they feel she hasn't paid what she owes under an agreement that's still in force and are "dropping her".

 

But of course, without seeing the actual docs, I'm merely speculating.

 

I feel like this might get ugly.

ICM hasn't made an actual statement yet. Now that she has, I'm pretty sure they will.

Edited February 16, 2019 at 01:52 AM by scielle

[maki_Dion-er]

Whatever the views of both parties is, it's a dirty move on ICM/Rob to go public with this issue to try to force Celine's hand. They tried to tarnish her name all because she wants to end a contract, that's pretty serious imo. I don't believe that this memo was released by accident. I also think Billboard did wrong in publishing that news without contacting Celine's team beforehand in order to show both sides argument.

 

Seeing the reactions here over her and her team releasing a statement (which apparently they rarely do?) it would seem they have also taken this slander seriously.

[Nmj]

One things for sure, it’s gonna get ugly before it gets better. I’m sure both sides have an argument.

[DionFanAlways]

 

I feel like this might get ugly.

ICM hasn't made an actual statement yet. Now that she has, I'm pretty sure they will.

Yes, the proverbial fat lady has not yet begun to sing.

[scielle]

Whatever the views of both parties is, it's a dirty move on ICM/Rob to go public with this issue to try to force Celine's hand. They tried to tarnish her name all because she wants to end a contract, that's pretty serious imo. I don't believe that this memo was released by accident. I also think Billboard did wrong in publishing that news without contacting Celine's team beforehand in order to show both sides argument.

 

Seeing the reactions here over her and her team releasing a statement (which apparently they rarely do?) it would seem they have also taken this slander seriously.

 

Well, ICM/ Rob didn't "go public" per se.

But I also don't think the memo was "leaked" by accident.

 

And in light of it being out, I think she had no option but to say something to protect her reputation, lest it be assumed silence equals tacit acknowledgement.

 

But I hope this is where the "news" ends and the next we hear about is that it's been settled out of court.

I certainly don't want to see this play out via increasingly escalating statements from ICM/ CDA!

[jpatdeleon09]

How To Get Away With Murder

 

I didn’t know we have an Annalise Keating member here lol

[Peppercorn1991]

https://goo.gl/images/foaVND

 

Picture just in 2017 at the Grammys of the both of them

 

Kev x

[stevo]

It’s all about the money, money...glad they made a statement and they certainly sound mega-pissed off.

 

[CSCfan]

2015?

She worked with Prinz for many years before that. When he moved over to ICM from UTA in 2016, he brought Celine with him.

They may very well have executed something new in 2017. Contracts get extended & amended all the time.

A general representation agreement may be very different and separate from a specific agreement executed for the purposes of, say, a specific tour or series of tours.

 

In any case, without seeing the agreement(s) in question, all any of us are doing is speculating.

 

Sorry, I meant to say, she joined Prinz (/he brought her with him) when he became CEO of ICM in 2015.

 

But the strange part is why would Celine's team make various offers to ICM if she was in the right to terminate the agreement???

 

Because she wasn't really "in the right", she wanted to get out of it.

 

It's like when you get a 2 year subscription with a phone company and then you want to get out of the subscription after say 6 months because you for example your phone broke and you see a good deal with another company. Your current phone company then says... fine, if you want to get out, you'll have to pay the remaing amount you owe us. Céline signed a $500 million deal (in which ICM "paid" "Céline" that $ 500 million for her upcoming tours and in return they get a commission), but a year later (IF a deal was really signed in 2017) she wanted to get out of it... so her team made ICM offers to get out of it.

Edited February 16, 2019 at 09:53 AM by CSCfan

[stevo]

Billboard being a bit shoddy in their ‘Céline refutes their claims’ piece- not mentioning that it was her who severed ties in 2018 etc.

[Xpresso]

Billboard being a bit shoddy in their Céline refutes their claims piece- not mentioning that it was her who severed ties in 2018 etc.

I also thought so when I first read it but it's actually buried in the last paragraph. I'm guessing Rob has some good friends at Billboard... Edited February 16, 2019 at 02:40 PM by Xpresso

[Katie]

This story happened a few days after Jogn mehlen announced he's leave Ceasar for some work with Céline...!!!!!!! Rob prinz, please accept it, and that's life dude!

[stevo]

This story happened a few days after Jogn mehlen announced he's leave Ceasar for some work with Céline...!!!!!!! Rob prinz, please accept it, and that's life dude!

 

Exactly - he waited from May last year! Can’t just be coincidence re. AEG and Meglen & Co. Whatever happens, I just hope she storms it over next few years and sets a new bar for live concerts again.

[Del]

I'm happy they released a statement regarding the issue. Knowing they've worked to come to a resolution for several month and have commented regarding the claims tells me that she does have the right team behind her.

[isurrender]

It's already the second long term relationship to let her down after Aldo on her post Rene career.

 

Weird.

[scielle]

It's already the second long term relationship to let her down after Aldo on her post Rene career.

 

Weird.

 

Meh, Aldo wasn't around very long, unless he had been "consulting" for CDA before he actually got hired.

He worked at Cirque from 2005-13 and then at Quebecor until 2014. I thought Rene basically recruited him from there after he got sick? So that's what, 2014-17? And I doubt we'll ever know who left whom in this case.

Pretty sure Dave has been around and actually working with her far longer than Aldo.

 

I'm thinking more of Mego & band, Annie... she has let people go before. It's just those were individuals on salary, not corporations on commission and a lot to lose. ICM clearly has the legal muscle power to argue their case in a way that Mego et al didn't.

 

https://goo.gl/images/foaVND

 

Picture just in 2017 at the Grammys of the both of them

 

Kev x

 

She looked so vulnerable that night.. as she does in this pic a bit, too.

Sad to see a long-standing and by all appearances great professional relationship rupture so bitterly. I'm hoping the spat is more on a professional level between ICM & her lawyers than personally between her and Rob...

 

Edited February 16, 2019 at 05:07 PM by scielle

[maki_Dion-er]

If it wasn't personal before it is now that it became public knowledge imo.

 

Somewhere in the contract there must be a termination clause that allowed Celine to get out of the contract. There always is, even if they have to pay a certain fee (which seems to be what her team were trying to do), but would it be the same amount as what they would have earned if she stayed? Idk.

But obviously ICM/Rob wouldn't accept anything because Celine leaving them is a big loss. They're gonna try to get as much as possible out of her and taking her to court might be the only way.

 

If Celine could lose I'm sure her team would have adviced against it, and they wouldn't have been negotiating for so long.

Edited February 16, 2019 at 08:22 PM by maki_Dion-er

[Dancing_Queen]

Do we know the financial situation of ICM? If they're in dire straits financially, it could explain any type of desperate measure.

 

And who is Cêline's legal representative? (Or which company?)

[scielle]

Do we know the financial situation of ICM? If they're in dire straits financially, it could explain any type of desperate measure.

 

And who is Cêline's legal representative? (Or which company?)

 

They're fine. They led the consortium that bought Just for Laughs last year.

 

Also, contract enforcement is not a "desperate measure". It's standard practice.

 

Business & legal affairs at Feeling was headed up by Paul Farberman until 2013, but now I'm pretty sure he's semi-retired and/or just consulting from his own company, so not sure if he still does day-to-day work for Celine.

Edited February 16, 2019 at 10:21 PM by scielle

[Dancing_Queen]

Also, contract enforcement is not a "desperate measure". It's standard practice.

 

Even if it's standard practice, either team *could* be grasping at straws. But we can't possibly know for sure without seeing the actual contract.

 

I just hope Céline has been receiving sound advice on this...

[Leo]

Have the terms of this contract ever been disclosed? I didn't know she closed such a deal. If they would pay her $500 million, then imagine what her concert grosses should be. That's why she would start world tours!

 

I don't trust her poeple after the greedy moves they made before LTAL was released (asking songwriters to resign to a portion of their royalties).

[joaofilho]

I think she does not want to pay all this in commissions because the contract was extinguished before she did shows in Asia, so he's not entitled to any commission, he's only entitled to the shows she had made.

 

This news about the LTAL royalties I did not know about this story, where did you read it? if it's true it must have been something with René because Celine did not take care of business at the time.

[Ukrfan]

Have the terms of this contract ever been disclosed? I didn't know she closed such a deal. If they would pay her $500 million, then imagine what her concert grosses should be. That's why she would start world tours!

 

I don't trust her poeple after the greedy moves they made before LTAL was released (asking songwriters to resign to a portion of their royalties).

 

I have talked to my husband who works in show business industry and he has some doubts regarding this sum actually. It is known Madonna signed a 10-year deal with Live Nation in 2007 for $120 million, which partnered her with Live Nation to handle everything: the following 3 albums, tours, as well as all the merchandising, studio albums, movies etc.

 

And now Celine signed a deal for $500 million only for touring? Artists usually take only around 30-40% of what the tour grosses. Even if she takes half, okay, that still means these tours have to gross over $1 billion, which is at least 4-5 vast world tours. So is this deal for 20 years?

Edited February 17, 2019 at 09:42 PM by Ukrfan

[Dion2000]

 

 

I have talked to my husband who works in show business industry and he has some doubts regarding this sum actually. It is known Madonna signed a 10-year deal with Live Nation in 2007 for $120 million, which partnered her with Live Nation to handle everything: the following 3 albums, tours, as well as all the merchandising, studio albums, movies etc.

 

And now Celine signed a deal for $500 million only for touring? Artists usually take only around 30-40% of what the tour grosses. Even if she takes half, okay, that still means these tours have to gross over $1 billion, which is at least 4-5 vast world tours. So is this deal for 20 years?

 

 

TCWT alone grossed $300,000,000... but i get what you mean.

[Ukrfan]

TCWT alone grossed $300,000,000... but i get what you mean.

 

Yes, TCWT did gross $280 million IIRC. However, it was quite a tour, with 132 concerts in one year. I doubt Celine will do something like that again. I think she even herself once said she wouldn't, or am I imagining this?

 

Her average revenue for a concert was $2 million in Summer Tour 2016 and $2.5 million in 2017 ^& 2018. So she needs to give over 100 concerts to reach the numbers of TCWT. And even if she does, she'll still need to do around 4 such big tours to gross $1B. I guess it will take well over a decade, unless Celine is planning to come back to her 90s schedule.

[CSCfan]

Yes, TCWT did gross $280 million IIRC. However, it was quite a tour, with 132 concerts in one year. I doubt Celine will do something like that again. I think she even herself once said she wouldn't, or am I imagining this?

 

Her average revenue for a concert was $2 million in Summer Tour 2016 and $2.5 million in 2017 ^& 2018. So she needs to give over 100 concerts to reach the numbers of TCWT. And even if she does, she'll still need to do around 4 such big tours to gross $1B. I guess it will take well over a decade, unless Celine is planning to come back to her 90s schedule.

Yes, TCWT did gross $280 million IIRC. However, it was quite a tour, with 132 concerts in one year. I doubt Celine will do something like that again. I think she even herself once said she wouldn't, or am I imagining this?

 

Her average revenue for a concert was $2 million in Summer Tour 2016 and $2.5 million in 2017 ^& 2018. So she needs to give over 100 concerts to reach the numbers of TCWT. And even if she does, she'll still need to do around 4 such big tours to gross $1B. I guess it will take well over a decade, unless Celine is planning to come back to her 90s schedule.

 

Well with the prices she currently asks... I reckon that if she would do one big world tour again and then only mini-tours (all within 10 years), she will reach the $500 million mark (easily?)....

[Dion2000]

 

 

Well with the prices she currently asks... I reckon that if she would do one big world tour again and then only mini-tours (all within 10 years), she will reach the $500 million mark (easily?)....

 

Yeah TCWT era £500 was like THE HIGHEST

 

Nowadays £800-£1000