Courage World Tour - EU shows CANCELED

[Dancing_Queen]

 

 

Saying there is nothing to compare between Whitney and Céline seems silly, IMO. How would Whitney’s lifestyle and spending have differed (other than the drug use)...?

 

Céline has answered this herself:

It's the people you surround yourself with.

 

Whitney was supporting so many people. Her parents, brothers, husband, in-laws, stepchildren, stepnmother, halfsister not to mention a whole lot of random hangers-on...These weren't people that worked for her (though some pretended to). She just provided for them (and financed their drug habits). Which is the reason she was always broke, *even* in the eighies...Her own father sued her for 100 million in the early '00s and it was clear she didn't have the money.

 

Whitney was an exceptional vocalist and intrinsically probably a good person, but apart from that, she is absolutely nothing like Céline.

The relationship Céline has with her family, the boundaries that she's obviously set...it seems much healthier (and less financially draining). I'm sure Renë helped her with this in the beginning, but I honestly believe she is so much more rational than people give her credit for.

 

 

[scielle]

Celine did make such arrangements - her and Rene had legendary business dealings.

 

I can recall seeing once that Celine had the highest non royalty rate of a non-songwriter in the entire business - she was making between 20-25% of every single sale (merchant value - but probably be between $1.50-$3 per unit). This is the reason Carole King nearly fell out with her and Rene - as Carole refused to give up her publishing rights (and in return, probably lost out on a boat load of money - but Carole did what she felt was the moral thing).

 

 

Everything I've seen about the Duffield Publishing deal is that it was basically a standard co-pub agreement. Nothing unusual about it. In fact, it's the most common type of deal in music publishing (see my post here, for anyone not familiar with how music publishing works).

By the sounds of it, Duffield was simply a co-publisher, like any other co-publisher in the business (these can range from major-affiliated publishing companies like EMI, Sony ATV, Warner Chappell, UMPG, or mid-size indies like Downtown, Spirit, Peer, etc, or small family-owned publishing houses (many hold co-pub rights of just one artist or group, and use a 3rd party to administer). Sounds like Duffield was one of those. Very, very common.

Anyone can be a co-publisher, and anyone can have a co-pub share. (For e.g., last week we approved a multi-million publishing deal for a major rapper where the finder - who brought us the deal - got 15% co-pub share; and this is somebody who had absolutely nothing to do with the writing of the songs nor finding commercial avenues for them (and Celine certainly did more than that, especially by recording them at the height of her commercial popularity.)

 

An separately, 20-25% is a very average royalty rate. One could in fact say it's low, by today's standard, where master deals are becoming increasingly rare and the industry shifts to licensing and distribution deals (where the rights either revert to the artist at the end of the term, or, in the case of straight distro deals, never leave the artist in the first place; the label just charges a ~15%-30% distribution fee.)

 

Bottom line, I'm sure Rene negotiated her a series of good deals, especially at the time when she had so much leverage as a recording artist, but from what I've seen of them, they weren't particularly unusual (or any more favorable than other artists at the same echelon.)

Edited April 8, 2020 at 02:30 AM by scielle

[SuperLove4Celine]

I’m revisiting “Les uns contre les autres” tonight. I think this would have been a great compliment next to “Tous les blues...”

 

[PuraVida]

 

 

Céline has answered this herself:

It's the people you surround yourself with.

 

Whitney was supporting so many people. Her parents, brothers, husband, in-laws, stepchildren, stepnmother, halfsister not to mention a whole lot of random hangers-on...These weren't people that worked for her (though some pretended to). She just provided for them (and financed their drug habits). Which is the reason she was always broke, *even* in the eighies...Her own father sued her for 100 million in the early '00s and it was clear she didn't have the money.

 

Whitney was an exceptional vocalist and intrinsically probably a good person, but apart from that, she is absolutely nothing like Céline.

The relationship Céline has with her family, the boundaries that she's obviously set...it seems much healthier (and less financially draining). I'm sure Renë helped her with this in the beginning, but I honestly believe she is so much more rational than people give her credit for.

 

I’ve only seen documentaries, but from what I can tell Whitney was supporting people for sure—but also, she was legitimately stolen from by those around her. She enabled many it seemed, but also was a true victim.

 

And hard to say whose drug habits she actually indeed supported outside of her husband’s. Who can know? Still, your point is valid.

 

Celine’s situation was already different given that so many of her family are much older and established their lives before she was 18. Lucky for her. But you never know behind the scenes stuff until much later, even death in Whitney’s case. So how much can we really know about Celine’s family members needs or Celine’s spending habits...we can’t.

 

 

[Céline RO]

1586296852[/url]' post='2380478']

But if she's literally can't, what then? She never promised anything. Very little in life is promised, hell, life itself is never promised. We should be grateful for what we DO get in times like these especially

 

I don’t mean now, she can do them next year if she must. I don’t mind as long as she doesn’t cancel them.

Edited April 8, 2020 at 05:44 AM by Céline RO

[Dancing_Queen]

 

 

I’ve only seen documentaries, but from what I can tell Whitney was supporting people for sure—but also, she was legitimately stolen from by those around her. She enabled many it seemed, but also was a true victim.

 

And hard to say whose drug habits she actually indeed supported outside of her husband’s. Who can know? Still, your point is valid.

 

Celine’s situation was already different given that so many of her family are much older and established their lives before she was 18. Lucky for her. But you never know behind the scenes stuff until much later, even death in Whitney’s case. So how much can we really know about Celine’s family members needs or Celine’s spending habits...we can’t.

 

I was a huge Whitney-fan back in the day and there isn't much about these documentaries that surprises me at all (except the stuff that honestly just sounds made up by her nasty family).

 

But ironically, Whitney was more of an open book than Céline. She never could hide her true feelings and people around her would constantly blab to the tabloids.

Céline is much more private and is surrounded by NDA's. So it's true that we have no way of knowing. Except celebrities with that type of self-control and structure usually aren't the ones going bankrupt. But I accept your point.

Edited April 8, 2020 at 06:18 AM by Dancing_Queen

[Celine Fan 77]

I'm revisiting "Les uns contre les autres" tonight. I think this would have been a great compliment next to "Tous les blues..."

 

https://youtu.be/YmYPomX8zCM

 

I can totally see her singing that song with her current voice

[scielle]

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[CelineDionFreak]

Does anyone have access to this behind the paywall? I saw on Google it’s got something about the styling of the tour and I’d like to read it! Thank you!!

 

https://www.newsday.com/amp/entertainment/music/celine-dion-courage-tour-nassau-coliseum-1.42223828

[rfkavanagh]

... this is somebody who had absolutely nothing to do with the writing of the songs nor finding commercial avenues for them (and Celine certainly did more than that, especially by recording them at the height of her commercial popularity.)

 

This is ultimately what it comes down to - it is a business after all. A songwriter giving up 25% but getting a song on an album that's going to sell millions worldwide is still going to come out far better than not giving up anything but never reaching anywhere close to that scale in sales. It's unfair in some ways, but at the end of the day the one who has the power sets the terms (which is also why more successful songwriters can afford to refuse the deal) and Céline was at her most successful during the LTAL period.

 

Of course, now the industry has changed so much that everything's in flux. Through talent, luck, timing, and Rene's business acumen, Céline was able to establish herself and have huge success when it was still possible to sell hundreds of millions of physical albums, while maintaining her live appeal so that now that live performance and touring is where the money is, she can still make millions without needing to sell millions of albums. She really did get it all right, in that way at least.

[nuts2you]

I have a feeling they are going to wait until end of the Month which would have been her last show here in the states to make an announcement , And we all know how bad she feels about telling all of us about cancelling her shows,

[nuts2you]

In light of recent Government advice in relation to the ongoing situation with COVID-19, we are working to bring you information regarding upcoming events as quickly as possible. We appreciate your patience and understanding at this time.

 

Here is a round-up of rescheduled events and their new dates. All existing tickets are valid for these new shows.

[nuts2you]

In light of recent Government advice in relation to the ongoing situation with COVID-19, we are working to bring you information regarding upcoming events as quickly as possible. We appreciate your patience and understanding at this time.

 

Here is a round-up of rescheduled events and their new dates. All existing tickets are valid for these new shows.

 

I got this e-mail from AEG, Nothing as of yet on Celine tour just yet,, But as of now the tours that AEG are with. Are rescheduling them for Next spring 2021 Hope that works

[Alice]

Thank you for this info. Edited April 9, 2020 at 02:48 PM by Alice

[beelee]

Wow! I did not know about the Carole King thing! Seems like they got along really well even after that though. Maybe to help make up for it, Celine pushed to get Carole on Divas Live?

 

I learn new things here all the time! Lol

[SuperLove4Celine]

 

 

I can totally see her singing that song with her current voice

 

Agreed!

[AdrienneM]

So just saw something about her Oakland show being postponed to 2022?????

[PuraVida]

I imagine they are being extra, extra careful with Celine's tour on both the promoter side and on the part of the venues & stadiums---because she is the biggest revenue earner of them all! So they definitely will want her to reschedule and stay in place somewhere on the calendar so they can make up some money.

[Alex_Incognito]

So just saw something about her Oakland show being postponed to 2022?????

 

Don’t you think providing a source would be nice?

[AdrienneM]

 

 

Don’t you think providing a source would be nice?

 

I don’t have to provide you with literally anything but here you go:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-xBgR0l3-L/?igshid=17zptbcxjxyfw

Edited April 9, 2020 at 10:04 PM by AdrienneM

[maki_Dion-er]

here https://www.instagram.com/p/B-xBgR0l3-L/

they got a reply from ticketmaster about the Oakland, CA show being rescheduled to March 13, 2022.

 

Maybe they already had dates planned for March 2021 that haven't been announced yet or it's something else. The European leg will probably all be rescheduled for summer 2021 and then they'll return to the US and finish here? Maybe it's a totally new tour? That's a long wait regardless :S

[browseceline]

here https://www.instagram.com/p/B-xBgR0l3-L/

they got a reply from ticketmaster about the Oakland, CA show being rescheduled to March 13, 2022.

 

Maybe they already had dates planned for March 2021 that haven't been announced yet or it's something else. The European leg will probably all be rescheduled for summer 2021 and then they'll return to the US and finish here? Maybe it's a totally new tour? That's a long wait regardless :S

I have to say Summer 2021 sounds good to me. Then i hope the Coronavirus is gone and life has returned a bit to how it used to be...wishful thinking...

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G965F met Tapatalk

 

 

[AdrienneM]

here https://www.instagram.com/p/B-xBgR0l3-L/

they got a reply from ticketmaster about the Oakland, CA show being rescheduled to March 13, 2022.

 

Maybe they already had dates planned for March 2021 that haven't been announced yet or it's something else. The European leg will probably all be rescheduled for summer 2021 and then they'll return to the US and finish here? Maybe it's a totally new tour? That's a long wait regardless :S

 

I’m guessing Europe as well as any Asia/Oceania/South Africa/ South America shows they may have had planned or organised will also be moved to later in 2021. Meaning they plan to do those first

[Alex_Incognito]

 

 

I don’t have to provide you with literally anything but here you go:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-xBgR0l3-L/?igshid=17zptbcxjxyfw

 

Literally you're just literally the best.

Edited April 9, 2020 at 11:26 PM by Alex_Incognito

[Alice]

Wow, 2022, thats far.

I am still hoping for 2021 as far as the European leg is concerned.

 

But what I am most hoping for is to get some official announcement by TC, finally, for heaven's sake!!

[Céline RO]

So just saw something about her Oakland show being postponed to 2022?????

 

Suddenly, 2021 doesn’t seem that far away anymore.

[Céline RO]

1586470058[/url]' post='2380581']

Maybe it's a totally new tour? That's a long wait regardless :S

 

Maybe it’s a mini tour when Céline takes a break from her Resorts World residency

[Simon]

Can't believe there are still no news about Europe, which SHOULD start in 40 days!

Ticketportal.cz (Prague concert, 21st May) answerd me yesterday that we have no information from the organizer at the moment that this event should not take place."

 

Come on guys, there is no way this concert is going to happen on that date. Please confirm soon TeamCéline or organizer..

Edited April 10, 2020 at 08:34 AM by Simon

[manu23]

Without vaccine (that could take more than a year to get) there is nothing preventing this situation to happen again next winter so I guess they are evaluating all possibilities. I wouldn’t be surprised if some concerts happen in 2022, as they might limit it to summer mini legs maybe. Life won’t go back to normal until vaccine or cure is found.

[couldawouldashoulda]

Here’s what little info I can give to help people understand what’s happening with Ticketmaster, etc. Just like us, they have never experienced mass cancellations of EVERYTHING at one time like this in anyone’s lifetime. (Meaning those of us who weren’t alive during the last pandemic.)

 

Just taking Broadway shows (which is where I have most of my understanding) Ticketmaster may have had to deal with one show closing early and having to refund months worth of tickets to customers but not 31 shows at one time. (That doesn’t include Off-Broadway shows or concerts across the globe, west end theater, theater in other major cities around the world, etc.) So they are faced with having to give back a $hit ton of money at once. They don’t want to do this. So for Broadway, as an example, they are holding onto everyone’s money until the government says “everything is canceled until this date.” Even WHEN the government does that, they are pushing people to simply reschedule their dates for the fall or winter rather than cancelling their tickets - they don’t want to give all of those people their money back. Their stock price will go down, they’ll be out hundreds of millions of dollars, blah, blah, blah, cry me a river for a multi-billion dollar company.

 

It’s the same thing with concerts. I’m reading about people who had tickets to see Elton John at MSG for example - the show isn’t happening now and people want their money back but Ticketmaster is refusing to do so saying people must wait to see when the show is rescheduled and their tickets will simply be transferred to that show.

 

So for everyone waiting for Celine/AEG...FIRST whichever country in which you live has to announce that legally nothing can take place on the day of your concert, then AEG can have the chats with venues and Celine, look at everyone’s schedule and re-schedule the dates. That will allow them to hold onto your money (because they already have it and it’s very difficult to get money back from a major corporation once they have it) and simply give you a ticket for the rescheduled show. Then, they can make you jump through hoops to prove that you can’t make that performance before giving you back your money - a process that will take 3-6 months and allow them to hold onto your money as long as they can. (Meanwhile, you may be paying interest for that ticket on your credit card that you’ll never get back.)

 

Seeing that some of Celine’s shows (or rumors that some of Celine’s shows) are going to be rescheduled for 2022 is making more and more sense as we learn more about this virus that has only been around for 3 months. If the other pandemics that have occurred in history (I think there have been 5?) are any indication of what will happen with this one...warm weather may slow down the virus SLIGHTLY but that’s only if everyone stays indoors. If restrictions are lifted and social distancing flies out the window (literally) we’ll have another round of severe illnesses. Another thing those other pandemics have shown us is that the virus goes away for a short time, only to come back (sometimes harder) about 6-12 months later.

 

A vaccine is said to be 18 months away. But that’s just to come up with the vaccine. The United States (to use as an example) has 314 million people. That means that, once the vaccine is discovered, 314 million doses have to be made. And no one in our government is figuring out how that’s going to happen. Each and every country will have to produce however many doses that country is going to need for their population.

 

I’m glad to see that people on this board are finally starting to understand the gravity of the situation. Nothing is going to change any time soon. Sit back, take a breath, listen to your favorite Celine album and wait. There’s nothing else that can be done right now.