Tensions between Vito Luprano and Celine/René

[comingback]

I think the reason for that is that she was working intensively since she was 14 years old, and by the time she was 30 she was exhausted. She achieved everything, but she felt empty inside, and motherhood gave her a true purpose, and that's what she wanted to shout out into the world cause it made her truly happy.

 

Yes, she didn't want to come back and do the Vegas show. She was happy to be a mum. The only reason she did it was Rene. Because everything was ready and too many people and money were involved.

 

 

She told that in the Quebec/French version of A NEW DAY Les Secrets

She even cried...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx3SS8u0T5Y

Edited September 24, 2023 at 06:31 PM by comingback

[idroveallnight]

Mothers were Oprah’s primary audience, so it did make sense from a marketing standpoint, but when streaming took over and album sales were no longer the metric, they had to pivot to a different sound. Hence all the Sia collaborations. The problem is, it doesn’t matter how good a song comes out. Look at how amazing Lying Down was! Celine has never been perceived as cool or connected to her lyrics to have found favor with a younger generation. Today’s youth aren’t necessarily connected to sound as they are to words and badass personas. Celine is a sweetheart that can hit high notes… doesn’t really resonate with today’s crowd. I think millennials will be the last generation who continue to support and follow her.

[mirage]

I don't think it is.

Most of it is done on purpose.

 

Take Love Of My Life, recorded at the same time. And most of us recognize the Celine when they became a fan of her voice.

 

It really depends on the people who are in the studio with her. And also the demos of the songs.

Can't remember which song it was but in the recordings sessions you could hear the demo in the background and celine exactly copied the sound.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if the pronunciation on “Courage” (most of which I actually don’t mind) was partially due to early signs of her illness?

 

[CourageProject]

Some songs on Courage have good pronunciation but they are less.

[CelinesDIVO5]

I don't think it is.

Most of it is done on purpose.

 

Take Love Of My Life, recorded at the same time. And most of us recognize the Celine when they became a fan of her voice.

 

It really depends on the people who are in the studio with her. And also the demos of the songs.

Can't remember which song it was but in the recordings sessions you could hear the demo in the background and celine exactly copied the sound.

 

The symptoms of her illness are also sporadic. So from day to day, her condition could have been very different.

[PuraVida]

delete Edited September 25, 2023 at 08:19 PM by PuraVida

[PuraVida]

I don't think Celine's choice of team is necessarily what stopped her from having hits. Having Vito Luprano or not was never going to change the fact that the the music scene had moved on stylistically, radios and the industry continued with Celine bias, and regardless of what songs she chose, Sony and her team often screwed up the promo and marketing anyway.

 

She worked with younger people like Sia and Ne-Yo, and it still didn't garner her any hits. That said, I continue to think she could have chosen better songs and made better albums. But let's look LTAL in 1997. A classic album, but even with Luprano around....it was still one of the most random collections of songs ever lol.

[rfkavanagh]

But let's look LTAL in 1997. A classic album, but even with Luprano around....it was still one of the most random collections of songs ever lol.

 

It's a complete mish-mash! I know it was obviously hugely successful and it's lots of fans' favorite album - and I love lots of the material, too - but it's wildly inconsistent and completely lacks a cohesive identity. Any album that includes both a sub-par duet with Pavarotti and a song like Treat Her Like A Lady doesn't know what it wants to be. Then add in Streisand, Bee Gees, Diana King, Carole King, Bryan Adams, Corey Hart, MHWGO... it's a mess of an album!

 

I say that mostly affectionately, but it's not an album I return to much to listen to as an actual album. And my biggest issue with it is that for all its success, it's the album that set Céline on the path of "adult contemporary artist for older generations who has little appeal to contemporary audiences" for the rest of her career. She wasn't even 30 yet and they'd already aligned her with artists decades her senior - I know they wanted to position her as a superstar who was essentially at the same level as those artists, but I really think it did her individuality and artistry a disservice (if not her career and bank account).

[LukeD]

LTAL is my favourite album because I am emotionally connected to it and reminds me of childhood BUT I agree it lacks coherence. I think THLAL and IHYTILY are to blame for this. I have created my own LTAL Playlist on Spotify without these songs, and I find the recording a lot more consistent.

 

I think the cinematic songs worked really well for this project, so songs like The Reason, When I Need You, Love Is On The Way, Us, of course My Heart Will Go On and Immortality.

[PuraVida]

LTAL is my favourite album because I am emotionally connected to it and reminds me of childhood BUT I agree it lacks coherence. I think THLAL and IHYTILY are to blame for this. I have created my own LTAL Playlist on Spotify without these songs, and I find the recording a lot more consistent.

 

I think the cinematic songs worked really well for this project, so songs like The Reason, When I Need You, Love Is On The Way, Us, of course My Heart Will Go On and Immortality.

 

I think it's proof that her 90's approach wasn't perfect either. And if she didn't record MHWGO (thanks to Rene's insistence), then the LTAL wouldn't have existed in the first place.

 

But at least back then she was promoted like hell. And the type of music she made was still able to make it on the charts. Even so, I imagine fans would have differing opinions as to which singles should have been selected versus what Sony actually chose.

[LukeD]

I imagine fans would have differing opinions as to which singles should have been selected versus what Sony actually chose.

Yes! THLAL (released in Europe), Miles To Go (released in Canada), and I Hate You Then I Love You (promotional release in Italy) are NOT single material IMO. I also disagree with the limited copies of MHWGO they decided to go with in US. TLYM also needed a physical single release.

 

I would therefore keep these singles:

 

1) Tell Him

2) Be The Man

3) My Heart Will Go On

4) To Love You More

5) Immortality

 

And release Let's Talk About Love as the final single. I think it would have worked as this universal love type of anthem. She needed a song like that in her singles discography.

Edited September 25, 2023 at 09:41 PM by LukeD

[Davey84]

Yes! THLAL (released in Europe), Miles To Go (released in Canada), and I Hate You Then I Love You (promotional release in Italy) are NOT single material IMO. I also disagree with the limited copies of MHWGO they decided to go with in US. TLYM also needed a physical single release.

 

I would therefore keep these singles:

 

1) Tell Him

2) Be The Man

3) My Heart Will Go On

4) To Love You More

5) Immortality

 

And release Let's Talk About Love as the final single. I think it would have worked as this universal love type of anthem. She needed a song like that in her singles discography.

 

Be The Man hasn't aged that well IMO. You've forgotten the best song of the album, The Reason!! Such a shame it didn't get a real proper music video.

 

I was actually thinking today how LTAL is lacking in upbeat songs. If they would have kept Heavens what I feel (Gloria Estefan) and if TTWII was already written, then this album could have been totally different and also more groundbreaking for her.

 

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[idroveallnight]

LTAL was an album about collaborations with legends. Literally “talking about love” with musical legends. It’s right there in the liner notes with the photo collage. What’s the mish mash there?

 

But I do agree aligning her with those senior musicians put her on the adult contemporary trajectory… but maybe that’s what Sony was looking for.

[Nmj]

LTAL was an album about collaborations with legends. Literally “talking about love” with musical legends. It’s right there in the liner notes with the photo collage. What’s the mish mash there?

 

But I do agree aligning her with those senior musicians put her on the adult contemporary trajectory… but maybe that’s what Sony was looking for.

 

We must remember that part of the reason with Celine going into the adult contemporary lane after this album was because Celine wanted to take the hiatus and they followed that success with “All The Way… A Decade Of Song” essentially a greatest hits album that the public was left with while Celine took her break to start her family. Just in those 2.5 years that she left; the music industry changed so much… suddenly what was popular in 1997-1999 was vastly different from what was popular in 2002.

 

Then Celine comes back with one of my favorite albums (personally) but let’s not forget the first single to this huge comeback was a song about her joy of becoming a mother…. BAM that was another thing that led her to cement her adult contemporary journey. I think a lot of the fans that came for MHWGO or TTWII weren’t able to connect with the motherhood message. And then the final nail on the coffin of the album was to release “goodbyes the saddest word” as a single ( which again I love but was a wrong single choice). Here you had a song talking about a mothers passing.

 

I think “One Heart” was finally an album that felt right and current for the year it was released and it wasn’t promoted because of the Vegas Residency journey and the Chrysler reasoning. Wasted opportunity, she then begins “A New Day…” in 2003 where unless you had money and means to travel and see her, she was basically off of the map, this was the time before smart phones of clips that could intrigue fans or gave viral moments, so besides the lucky fans in attendance each night to the rest of world Celine was basically, outta sight, outta mind.

 

 

[Unisono]

What I find strange is that without My Heart Will Go On, she wouldn't have had a successful single in USA from LTAL. She was coming from three successful singles that made the top5 (from FIY) and maybe Sony was already planning to push the album instead of the singles, not releasing physical copies of Tell Him, for instance. And even after MHWGO there wasn't a new single to buy (and therfore to chart).

 

[smw]

LTAL was an album about collaborations with legends. Literally “talking about love” with musical legends. It’s right there in the liner notes with the photo collage. What’s the mish mash there?

 

But I do agree aligning her with those senior musicians put her on the adult contemporary trajectory… but maybe that’s what Sony was looking for.

 

It was a great move for Celine to release That’s The Way It Is in 1999 and go on programs like TRL. It was a refreshing move that really appealed to younger people at the time. And they brought on *NSYNC to perform with her if she hadn’t taken a career break in 2000, I wonder if they would’ve kept going down this path.

 

 

She did perform with Destiny’s Child when she came back in 2002. So they clearly were trying to keep Celine somewhat hip and relevant with younger people.

 

It’s so great that Celine was able to squeeze in a Max Martin song during her popularity peak. He was THE producer at the time … bringing in the new era of radio hits with Britney, NSYNC, the Backstreet Boys, etc.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 at 04:36 PM by smw

[PuraVida]

Pavarotti on the same album as Diana King -- only Celine could pull off such a thing

[Nmj]

Pavarotti on the same album as Diana King -- only Celine could pull off such a thing

 

Only MHWGO and the titanic blockbuster success, pulled it off.

Back then in order to support a song, people had to buy an entire album.

There was no single downloads like today.

Edited September 26, 2023 at 06:26 PM by Nmj

[celinesounds]

Diana King was very popular in France in the 90s, that’s why they took her…

Anyway I love THLAL maybe my fav song from the album,

With a proper music video this song could have gone far

Anyway….

all the album singles were killed by the huge success of MHWGO

 

LTAL is a very decent album in my opinion

Celine was singing with her idols, it was a classy album, the production was huge, and most of the songs are stil timeless

 

 

 

 

[PuraVida]

Only MHWGO and the titanic blockbuster success, pulled it off.

Back then in order to support a song, people had to buy an entire album.

There was no single downloads like today.

 

Well I agree, like I said above it was the most random collection of songs lol ... maybe Sony knew this and that's why they used tricks to get people to buy the album over the single or smth like that, and MHWGO ended up having a shorter run at the top of the charts.

 

In any case, Vito's later argument that fresh voices (i.e. different old men for Celine to listen to) would help her get a hit is kind of odd. He represented the double-edged sword issue that Celine has had her whole career -- working with the same names over and over again. Has plusses and minuses.

[LukeD]

Be The Man hasn't aged that well IMO. You've forgotten the best song of the album, The Reason!! Such a shame it didn't get a real proper music video.

 

I was actually thinking today how LTAL is lacking in upbeat songs. If they would have kept Heavens what I feel (Gloria Estefan) and if TTWII was already written, then this album could have been totally different and also more groundbreaking for her.

 

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BTM was only released in Japan and certified Platinum, so I would not change that. And yes, The Reason could have been the 6th and final single. Agreed.

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

Be The Man hasn't aged that well IMO. You've forgotten the best song of the album, The Reason!! Such a shame it didn't get a real proper music video.

 

I was actually thinking today how LTAL is lacking in upbeat songs. If they would have kept Heavens what I feel (Gloria Estefan) and if TTWII was already written, then this album could have been totally different and also more groundbreaking for her.

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

 

Heaven’s What I Feel probably would not have been the same version that Gloria recorded. It was originally a ballad.

[mirage]

I love the performance on The Billboard Awards of TTWII, she looks so young!

I wonder if it wasnt for that hiatus how her career went after TTWII, i remember the remix version was played on the radio's here.

 

 

 

It was a great move for Celine to release That’s The Way It Is in 1999 and go on programs like TRL. It was a refreshing move that really appealed to younger people at the time. And they brought on *NSYNC to perform with her if she hadn’t taken a career break in 2000, I wonder if they would’ve kept going down this path.

 

 

She did perform with Destiny’s Child when she came back in 2002. So they clearly were trying to keep Celine somewhat hip and relevant with younger people.

 

It’s so great that Celine was able to squeeze in a Max Martin song during her popularity peak. He was THE producer at the time … bringing in the new era of radio hits with Britney, NSYNC, the Backstreet Boys, etc.

[smw]

I love the performance on The Billboard Awards of TTWII, she looks so young!

I wonder if it wasnt for that hiatus how her career went after TTWII, i remember the remix version was played on the radio's here.

 

Yeah, it’s interesting to think about. If Celine had stayed on the scene during the era of Britney, *NSYNC, etc. what that would’ve looked like.

 

It would’ve been great if there was a Celine/Britney moment. I’m glad Britney saw Celine’s Vegas first show.

[ryba]

 

 

Yeah, it’s interesting to think about. If Celine had stayed on the scene during the era of Britney, *NSYNC, etc. what that would’ve looked like.

 

It would’ve been great if there was a Celine/Britney moment. I’m glad Britney saw Celine’s Vegas first show.

they actually continued going that path on ANDHC with songs like I’m Alive, SFL, TD, WTROLYR, but unfortunately most of these uptempo songs didn’t get the exposure they deserved, especially SFL. It screamed radio material! They should have kept ballads like GTSW as album tracks and focus on releasing the uptempos. Same with OH. It was a crime not to release Reveal as a single! Edited September 30, 2023 at 10:10 AM by ryba

[CelinesDIVO5]

they actually continued going that path on ANDHC with songs like I’m Alive, SFL, TD, WTROLYR, but unfortunately most of these uptempo songs didn’t get the exposure they deserved, especially SFL. It screamed radio material! They should have kept ballads like GTSW as album tracks and focus on releasing the uptempos. Same with OH. It was a crime not to release Reveal as a single!

 

WTWOLYR should have been released as both a solo single, and after the CBS special, as a dance remix with Destiny’s Child. SFL should have followed.

 

REVEAL should have come right after IDAN, and then NAKED or FAITH (as a worldwide single).

[smw]

Still, I think she would’ve had more success on the charts if she had continued in the year 2000 vs releasing trendy songs upon her return. Mostly because she was in mom mode by that point. Whereas she had made a successful shift by 1999 to appeal to younger audiences with TTWII. Which was pretty amazing considering she was so adult contemporary before that. I actually think I’m Your Angel was when the shift was made in 1998. I remember being in middle school at that time and the kids thought that song was cool. Before, she was mostly liked by moms.

 

Another Max Martin collaboration would have been great.

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 at 05:18 PM by smw

[comingback]

WTWOLYR should have been released as both a solo single, and after the CBS special, as a dance remix with Destiny's Child. SFL should have followed.

 

REVEAL should have come right after IDAN, and then NAKED or FAITH (as a worldwide single).

 

Still, I think she would've had more success on the charts if she had continued in the year 2000 vs releasing trendy songs upon her return. Mostly because she was in mom mode by that point. Whereas she had made a successful shift by 1999 to appeal to younger audiences with TTWII. Which was pretty amazing considering she was so adult contemporary before that. I actually think I'm Your Angel was when the shift was made in 1998. I remember being in middle school at that time and the kids thought that song was cool. Before, she was mostly liked by moms.

 

Another Max Martin collaboration would have been great.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIUnLg3W3ws

 

Yes, When The Wrong One Loves You Right (with Destiny's Child) was a great promo step from Sony to bring Celine back in the spotlight. Should have been a single! or Right In Front Of You

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ouoVC8YCZQ

 

and of course

 

Reveal (from Cathy Dennis / Can't Get You Out Of My Head, Toxic) ! and Faith

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu85QW2XOgI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UmzTZSY01g

Edited September 30, 2023 at 05:51 PM by comingback

[zuv]

He is definitely seeking for recognition and be credited for his work. Looking at the picture he posted on his instagram it shows thats it’s reeeally important to him. Who in the show biz posts on their instagram a screenshot of their names in the end titles of a project? No one.

 

So yeah, he’s bitter and mad at René lol

 

[CelinesDIVO5]

He is definitely seeking for recognition and be credited for his work. Looking at the picture he posted on his instagram it shows thats it’s reeeally important to him. Who in the show biz posts on their instagram a screenshot of their names in the end titles of a project? No one.

 

So yeah, he’s bitter and mad at René lol

 

 

This post was because he’s proud of his daughter. That’s her credit, not his. He was doting on it.