4650 replies to this topic

[CelineDionFreak]

Dancing_Queen, on 30 June 2024 - 08:30 AM, said:

Mr. Barrington is relatively new, no? I seem to remember her last butler was the one who brought her into contact with Pepe (we saw him a couple of times in Paris in 2017). Can't remember his name though.

Wasn’t it Mathieu?

[Zofia]

scielle, on 30 June 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

Here's something I'm still struggling to understand: how was she able to perform at such a high level, up to spring 2020, if she was just masking symptoms with high doses of Valium & other (presumably inappropriate for the condition) meds? Physically, how was she able to put on such energetic shows? Even if they temporarily relieved her spasms and pain, wouldn't those dosages drain her and knock her out?

And if she was able to do it then, with all those wrong meds in her system, wouldn't she be in better position to do it now that she's under a correct treatment plan for her illness?

That, plus how is she able to handle crowds, lights, sounds? Judging by commentary from other SPS patients, this is what they're most perplexed by, because most are triggered by these things and could never go to a concert or sporting event. So it seems they're all wondering what it is she's doing.

As we know, SPS is a progressive disease, but not linearly (like SLA, for example) and can be stabilized. It started with minor and transient voice problems, which perhaps she wouldn't have been concerned about had she not been a singer. The disease progressed, a diagnosis was not forthcoming, and she tried treatment in the dark. Valium helped right away - it's usual for undiagnosed patients to confirm that their problem may be psychological. But the tolerance effect is very strong with this drug. "The show must go on" brought her to the brink of self-destruction; Covid may have saved her. After stopping the drugs, the disease accelerated. It seems that after the diagnosis, an attempt was made for some time to find the optimal treatment profile and determine dosage, returning to symptomatic therapy, but combining it with immune and physical therapy. So far, Céline seems to have had a great response to high doses of IVIG. Let's hope it lasts. But every year is a victory. If it worsens, the third line of defense remains HSCT… or CAR-T, the new big hope for SPS patients.

After watching the documentary, there were claims among patients that her disease looked more advanced and with a more severe course than some of them (not all patients experience long full-body attacks, let alone broken bones due to spasms). But that now visible to the naked eye the effects of treatment are impressive.

Maybe in Céline's case nothing can be moderate, everything over the top... It's all "deeply Dion," as one reviewer wrote.

That the murderous doses of Valium were balanced by adrenaline for a while, I can understand. Unfortunately, it's possible that she was taking stimulants at the same time to combat the sleeping effects of the Valium. I feel fatal as a spectator from the early days of the "Courage" tour with this knowledge that someone was doing such a great disservice to herself in order to "not let down" people like me. And I can't stop asking: after all, someone prescribed these drugs to her? Someone saw what happens to her when the drugs stop working? After Whitney Houston's death, it was Céline who had the courage to ask publicly: "Where were her surroundings? Why didn't anyone react?" In her own case, Céline obviously accuses only herself. But I still can't avoid her questions there.

[scielle]

Zofia, on 30 June 2024 - 09:09 AM, said:

After watching the documentary, there were claims among patients that her disease looked more advanced and with a more severe course than some of them (not all patients experience long full-body attacks, let alone broken bones due to spasms). But that now visible to the naked eye the effects of treatment are impressive.

So on the one hand, her disease may be more advanced as you point out above.
But on the other, apparently less so in some respects because unlike most, she's able to tolerate crowds, sounds, lights. The reactions I've seen from other SPS patients seem to be along the lines of "I want to know what she's doing... I can't walk like that, I can't go to shows..."

Dr Piquet had encouraging things to say about her progress, and Irene said that episodes like that which we see in the film are rare for Celine, so all that is heartening.

It's just so hard to figure out where she's truly at, to reconcile what we see in the doc (admittedly some time ago) with the woman we've seen in these various public appearances, who insists she's going back on stage and that it's "not false hope anymore". It's a progressive disease, and yet here she is visibly appearing much better. Now on the right treatment plan, but still having to do so much work just to get back to semi-normal, yet not so long ago,  she was performing these athletic shows while full of all the wrong meds.

Edited by scielle, 30 June 2024 - 09:45 AM.

[tshlw]

scielle, on 30 June 2024 - 09:32 AM, said:

So on the one hand, her disease may be more advanced as you point out above.
But on the other, apparently less so in some respects because unlike most, she's able to tolerate crowds, sounds, lights. The reactions I've seen from other SPS patients seem to be along the lines of "I want to know what she's doing... I can't walk like that, I can't go to shows..."

Dr Piquet had encouraging things to say about her progress, and Irene said that episodes like that which we see in the film are rare for Celine, so all that is heartening.

It's just so hard to figure out where she's truly at, to reconcile what we see in the doc (admittedly some time ago) with the woman we've seen in these various public appearances, who insists she's going back on stage and that it's "not false hope anymore". It's a progressive disease, and yet here she is visibly appearing much better. Now on the right treatment plan, but still having to do so much work just to get back to semi-normal, yet not so long ago,  she was performing these athletic shows while full of all the wrong meds.

Maybe now that SPS is more known and the numbers look more like 1 or 2 in 100,000 we will see a broader spectrum of triggers then just light, noise and touch.

I also can't imagine what all the drugs she was taking. She says valium among other things but never goes into detail and so that does make you wonder. Also some of her behavior then sometimes very relaxed in interviews sometimes very up. Or fact so many interviews in the last few years took place after her shows. I wonder if that was because she knew still medicated and would not have to worry about anything happening.

Amazing what the human body can endure. Could also be why she went so hard because when she slowed down it got worse so as long as going at 100% seemed to have some control along with the meds.

And the big questions who prescribed them as well and where was someone to make her stop. I will always wonder how things would have been different if Rene was still alive.

Never thought would say it but for her health and wellbeing thankful Covid came along.

Edited by tshlw, 30 June 2024 - 11:42 AM.

[Zofia]

scielle, on 30 June 2024 - 09:32 AM, said:

Now on the right treatment plan, but still having to do so much work just to get back to semi-normal, yet not so long ago,  she was performing these athletic shows while full of all the wrong meds.

True, but between then and now the disease did not stand still, but developed by a mighty leap. Otherwise it would indeed be difficult to understand. Well, and before Covid it wasn't were wrong meds, but accidentally (ironically) apt, except that they were limited to alleviating symptoms.

Dr. Piquet's patients wrote that her treatment plan - inferring from official information - is similar to theirs. It remains a mystery how she achieved such spectacular improvement (even if not yet remission) in a short period of time - from a condition worse than many others to a condition better than most other patients. Because she can afford more frequent IVIG and daily physical therapy? Because she's lucky? Maybe both.

[RosieBarron]

Zofia, on 30 June 2024 - 10:32 AM, said:

True, but between then and now the disease did not stand still, but developed by a mighty leap. Otherwise it would indeed be difficult to understand. Well, and before Covid it wasn't were wrong meds, but accidentally (ironically) apt, except that they were limited to alleviating symptoms.

Dr. Piquet's patients wrote that her treatment plan - inferring from official information - is similar to theirs. It remains a mystery how she achieved such spectacular improvement (even if not yet remission) in a short period of time - from a condition worse than many others to a condition better than most other patients. Because she can afford more frequent IVIG and daily physical therapy? Because she's lucky? Maybe both.

I suppose she also has the advantage of being used to very strictly training her body and sticking to set routines and diets. She's had to do it her whole life. As she says in the documentary, working hard is not a problem for her.

[Céline RO]

scielle, on 30 June 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

And if she was able to do it then, with all those wrong meds in her system, wouldn't she be in better position to do it now that she's under a correct treatment plan for her illness?

That seems to be Céline’s narrative with regard to her return to the stage: she was doing it wrong, she took the time to get herself on the right track, now she’s doing things the right way and we should be excited precisely because she’s suggesting that her answer to your question that I quoted above is “yes”. The best was always, and still is, yet to come.

[Céline RO]

Zofia, on 30 June 2024 - 09:09 AM, said:

Maybe in Céline's case nothing can be moderate, everything over the top... It's all "deeply Dion," as one reviewer wrote.

Love this.

[Zofia]

RosieBarron, on 30 June 2024 - 11:17 AM, said:

I suppose she also has the advantage of being used to very strictly training her body and sticking to set routines and diets. She's had to do it her whole life. As she says in the documentary, working hard is not a problem for her.

True, this is certainly an important part of the combination. On the one hand, the resources at her disposal (access to specialists, her own therapist, etc.), and on the other, her incredible character: not only willpower and resilience, but also a real love of rigor and discipline. Bombardier saw in her a "natural inclination toward asceticism". - sounds paradoxical for someone living in luxury, but there is something to it.

Fortunately, Céline has both means and character, because one without the other won't work. As long as she has reliable luck from now on - because this third factor has sometimes been lacking.

tshlw, on 30 June 2024 - 10:22 AM, said:

And the big questions who prescribed them as well and where was someone to make her stop. I will always wonder how things would have been different if Rene was still alive.

The question about René in light of what we know is a difficult one. Unfortunately, he had a recurrence of cancer in 2013, so understandably it was his health that came to the forefront. What came before? It's certainly hard to talk about his guilt, because guilt as a moral category implies a consciousness of doing wrong. And yet there is no reason to question the genuineness and depth of their affection for each other. But wasn't her entire ultra-high-performance career focused on what he valued most in his wife: perfection, the driving force behind the problem? and behind the "lie" from which Céline is now freeing herself? Instead of using the word "fault," can we speak here of mistakes, negligence, a kind of blindness? About the too high price of success and the miscalculation of "debit/credit"? I don't know. But it's already possible to openly pose such questions.

[Jeanette]

I found it fascinating that Celine was clearly unhappy enough with the Love Again track after the first day of recording to speak out and say, “no I don’t like it, let’s try again” and yet we got some pretty subpar vocal performances throughout the Courage album, compared to her high standards certainly but yet those she must’ve been happy enough with at that time to release on the record.  I’m also thinking of Superwoman as let’s be honest that is painful to listen to.

Obviously, it’s all understandable now considering what she’s been dealing with and pushing through but I just find it  almost refreshing that she was professional enough in looking for perfectionism or as close as she could get to it at that time.  I wonder if during her time away, she’s listened back through some of her more recent repertoire and thought I won’t accept less than perfectionism going forward, or at least as close as her voice will allow.

Edited by Jeanette, 30 June 2024 - 02:02 PM.

[RosieBarron]

Zofia, on 30 June 2024 - 01:32 PM, said:

True, this is certainly an important part of the combination. On the one hand, the resources at her disposal (access to specialists, her own therapist, etc.), and on the other, her incredible character: not only willpower and resilience, but also a real love of rigor and discipline. Bombardier saw in her a "natural inclination toward asceticism". - sounds paradoxical for someone living in luxury, but there is something to it.

Fortunately, Céline has both means and character, because one without the other won't work. As long as she has reliable luck from now on - because this third factor has sometimes been lacking.



The question about René in light of what we know is a difficult one. Unfortunately, he had a recurrence of cancer in 2013, so understandably it was his health that came to the forefront. What came before? It's certainly hard to talk about his guilt, because guilt as a moral category implies a consciousness of doing wrong. And yet there is no reason to question the genuineness and depth of their affection for each other. But wasn't her entire ultra-high-performance career focused on what he valued most in his wife: perfection, the driving force behind the problem? and behind the "lie" from which Céline is now freeing herself? Instead of using the word "fault," can we speak here of mistakes, negligence, a kind of blindness? About the too high price of success and the miscalculation of "debit/credit"? I don't know. But it's already possible to openly pose such questions.

As I have said previously, the chances are Rene was not around at the point when she was over medicating. As you say he wasn't at her shows from autumn 2013 onwards. The doses got greater over time as the drugs had less effect. Really don't think that can be pinned on him. If he had known about it he may well have stopped her. He was probably the only person who could have done so.

Edited by RosieBarron, 30 June 2024 - 02:01 PM.

[tshlw]

Zofia, on 30 June 2024 - 01:32 PM, said:

The question about René in light of what we know is a difficult one. Unfortunately, he had a recurrence of cancer in 2013, so understandably it was his health that came to the forefront. What came before? It's certainly hard to talk about his guilt, because guilt as a moral category implies a consciousness of doing wrong. And yet there is no reason to question the genuineness and depth of their affection for each other. But wasn't her entire ultra-high-performance career focused on what he valued most in his wife: perfection, the driving force behind the problem? and behind the "lie" from which Céline is now freeing herself? Instead of using the word "fault," can we speak here of mistakes, negligence, a kind of blindness? About the too high price of success and the miscalculation of "debit/credit"? I don't know. But it's already possible to openly pose such questions.

But do we even know how bad her symptoms were when he was alive? Was it still just mainly voice related and not other symptoms. Also during that it time were a few times the show was stopped for several weeks. So instead of pushing and even medicating she took time off. It seems the medicating came either once he got sick or more likely after he passed. I do not believe he would have been ok with her medicating at that level. Also she would not have to be so strong and prove to everyone she was fine if he had not died. Why feel things would have been different.

Also I think her work ethic "show must go on" is even more from her mother than just Rene. In her auto biography she talks about her mother saying you get nothing without giving something for it. Why her mother gave up smoking once all the success came and she was given the opportunity to travel the world with her daughter.

[RosieBarron]

tshlw, on 30 June 2024 - 01:59 PM, said:

But do we even know how bad her symptoms were when he was alive? Was it still just mainly voice related and not other symptoms. Also during that it time were a few times the show was stopped for several weeks. So instead of pushing and even medicating she took time off. It seems the medicating came either once he got sick or more likely after he passed. I do not believe he would have been ok with her medicating at that level. Also she would not have to be so strong and prove to everyone she was fine if he had not died. Why feel things would have been different.

Also I think her work ethic "show must go on" is even more from her mother than just Rene. In her auto biography she talks about her mother saying you get nothing without giving something for it. Why her mother gave up smoking once all the success came and she was given the opportunity to travel the world with her daughter.

Exactly.

[scielle]

Is this Netflix promoting the competition? 🤭

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(Happy early Canada Day to my fellow Canucks, by the way!)

Edited by scielle, 30 June 2024 - 02:21 PM.

[Ajax]

RosieBarron, on 30 June 2024 - 02:02 PM, said:

Exactly.

When she was visiting every specialist around the word Rene was with her. In France a lot of time she visited ENT specialist Abitbol. We even had pictures. I also remember this doctor mentioned a long time ago that she had so somatic issue something like that.
Of course we have to question René around all that. Everyone would question its manager if it would happen to any star.  It’s intellectually necessary healthy and natural.

[Nmj]

Ajax, on 30 June 2024 - 03:01 PM, said:

When she was visiting every specialist around the word Rene was with her. In France a lot of time she visited ENT specialist Abitbol. We even had pictures. I also remember this doctor mentioned a long time ago that she had so somatic issue something like that.
Of course we have to question René around all that. Everyone would question its manager if it would happen to any star.  It’s intellectually necessary healthy and natural.

I think it would be appropriate to question Rene, her manager more if she were able to find the reason. They weren’t. They tried all those years with no luck. But they tried. When Rene was alive it was just sporadically affecting her voice, she wasn’t suffering from the episodes/seizures that we saw in the documentary just yet, and by all accounts, she was only experiencing the spasms from time to time as a disease hasn’t progressed yet. So I don’t think we can blame Rene or anyone else for that matter let’s not forget that SPS is such a rare neurological disorder. It’s not really anyone’s fault that they didn’t find it sooner. It wasn’t until the more storybook symptoms were occurring that probably she was able to get on the right track of finding the right doctors to diagnose this. I believe that was after Rene was gone.

Edited by Nmj, 30 June 2024 - 03:06 PM.

[tshlw]

Nmj, on 30 June 2024 - 03:06 PM, said:

I think it would be appropriate to question Rene, her manager more if she were able to find the reason. They weren't. They tried all those years with no luck. But they tried. When Rene was alive it was just sporadically affecting her voice, she wasn't suffering from the episodes/seizures that we saw in the documentary just yet, and by all accounts, she was only experiencing the spasms from time to time as a disease hasn't progressed yet. So I don't think we can blame Rene or anyone else for that matter let's not forget that SPS is such a rare neurological disorder. It's not really anyone's fault that they didn't find it sooner. It wasn't until the more storybook symptoms were occurring that probably she was able to get on the right track of finding the right doctors to diagnose this. I believe that was after Rene was gone.

Exactly until symptoms got worse they had no idea. For me is the fact I do not think Rene would have stood by why and watched her heavily medicate herself like everyone else around her seem to do. Also if he had been around and she would not have had to feel the need to prove to everyone she was in charge could handle it all. I can see them deciding together one once it really progressed to stop and try and find answers instead of pushing full steam ahead. But we will probably never know all the details of who knew what and when exaclty things progressed but do not think could be using any kind of high doses of valium for 4 years let alone 6.

[Nmj]

Celine’s instagram up by over 200K followers since the documentary.. doing numbers.

[Állex Sodi]

One thing that is stuck in my mind since I watched the doc is how lonely or isolated Celine looks. We have some footage with her kids but there’s no family or friends around, even on the most suffering times. It’s always only her staff.

This is so weird to me. But then again, I’m Latin and we are known for having a closer relationship with relatives. Maybe it’s just a cultural thing. So, I want to ask you all: any of you also got that impression?

[Nmj]

Állex Sodi, on 30 June 2024 - 04:37 PM, said:

One thing that is stuck in my mind since I watched the doc is how lonely or isolated Celine looks. We have some footage with her kids but there’s no family or friends around, even on the most suffering times. It’s always only her staff.

This is so weird to me. But then again, I’m Latin and we are known for having a closer relationship with relatives. Maybe it’s just a cultural thing. So, I want to ask you all: any of you also got that impression?

Let’s not forget that covid was going on during the filming lots of people were isolated…
Also, her sister Linda and brother in law were living with Celine and still are. I think they just opted to not be shown in the film, we see her waiting for Eddy in the beginning of the doc.

[tshlw]

Nmj, on 30 June 2024 - 04:42 PM, said:

Let’s not forget that covid was going on during the filming lots of people were isolated…
Also, her sister Linda and brother in law were living with Celine and still are. I think they just opted to not be shown in the film, we see her waiting for Eddy in the beginning of the doc.

I do hope her and Linda are close. If you think about it most of everyone around her even if they love her are paid employees, other than the boys and Linda and her husband. Hopefully now that she is better and Covid is over getting to spend more time with rest of her family.

[RosieBarron]

Ajax, on 30 June 2024 - 03:01 PM, said:

When she was visiting every specialist around the word Rene was with her. In France a lot of time she visited ENT specialist Abitbol. We even had pictures. I also remember this doctor mentioned a long time ago that she had so somatic issue something like that.
Of course we have to question René around all that. Everyone would question its manager if it would happen to any star.  It’s intellectually necessary healthy and natural.

No not really. That was the early phase when they thought it was a vocal problem so they sought the best ENT doctors to help. Makes sense. What I said was the later over medicating was not to do with him. He wouldn't have been there to see it.

[mebe]

I watched the documentary for the 3rd time tonight and this time the part that made me more emotional was the one where she said:
"I think I was very good, I think I hit some stuff that was amazing" and then she talks about the moments in the studio where they wanted "Celine Dion".  The fact that she talks about what she did using past time... The fact that she also stays very humble about it... and you can feel all the pressure she had when going into the studio etc... it made very sad but at the same time it is a beautiful moment in the movie. I dont know how to explain it though... Words are missing...


Envoyé de mon SM-A526W en utilisant Tapatalk

[Jeanette]

I watched the interview that was shown to the fans at the watch party and from that it’s clear to me now, when she says she was “struggling” she means physically because of these unexplained symptoms but also mentally and emotionally.  I think she was heading for self destruction before covid by trying to keep going and prove, not only to herself but to us the fans, her kids and to those around her that she was strong and fine.  

With that said she’s changed her management and the people around her at that time are now out of the picture.  Those who would have been closest to her, her then co-managers, Matheiu (don’t know if my spelling’s correct), Pepe even.  She’s way too polite to offload or share the blame with anyone else, so she keeps saying she wasn’t “smart” but it’s clearer to me now that these people closest to her must’ve known what she was going through and having to resort to, to push on through. Albeit they probably weren’t fully aware how sick she was as neither was she at that time.

I think therapy has probably helped her see all this more clearly now, hence why she’s now surrounding herself with a management team who are patient and prepared to go at her pace.

[scielle]

After how we've been spoiled these last few weeks, it's going to be a tough wait for whatever comes next! But I'm heartened by what she said at the premiere: "the reason we're doing this is because I'm already a little bit back".
Do we think she's rehearsing? If so, pretty impressive that it hasn't leaked.

[scielle]

tshlw, on 30 June 2024 - 10:25 AM, said:

I don't think they turned down a single request for an interview. Amazon really knows how to leverage social media.

Yeah but have you ever heard of these people Irene's talking to? A lot of this seems to be really small, random influencer accounts.
There are some really good interviews in print, mind you, but I wish she'd do a few more longer-form audio/ video interviews (with CBC or NPR or something). Still, we got a lot more than I was expecting, so kudos to Amazon for that.
Hopefully they oil the promo machine back around come award season and campaign this thing.

[tshlw]

scielle, on 01 July 2024 - 05:17 AM, said:

Yeah but have you ever heard of these people Irene's talking to? A lot of this seems to be really small, random influencer accounts.
There are some really good interviews in print, mind you, but I wish she'd do a few more longer-form audio/ video interviews (with CBC or NPR or something). Still, we got a lot more than I was expecting, so kudos to Amazon for that.
Hopefully they oil the promo machine back around come award season and campaign this thing.

I have no idea who most of them are lol I do not really do the current social media thing. I follow Celine and that's about it. I mean most of the influences at the premier I had never heard of. By doing so many though probably helped to reach a wider audience that maybe would not have checked out the doc.

Would love a longer interview to dive little more into some of her choices she made for the doc.

Watched another review of doc last night and lot of what they questioned about things in doc Irene addresses in interviews so think somethings did not work they way she planned. But all of that really falls to the wayside with the last scene.

[ordinary fan]

scielle, on 01 July 2024 - 05:12 AM, said:

After how we've been spoiled these last few weeks, it's going to be a tough wait for whatever comes next! But I'm heartened by what she said at the premiere: "the reason we're doing this is because I'm already a little bit back".
Do we think she's rehearsing? If so, pretty impressive that it hasn't leaked.

She said by word that they are putting a new show together, just no comment about an exact date or what kind of show or place. But most likely vegas since the contract is still running at resorts world

[tshlw]

Question something been thinking about do we think why Pepe was always giving her a hand or helping her during the later years was because she was starting to become unsteady and not just him being a gentlemen?  Not saying he wasn't a gentlemen just something I started to wonder after her interviews about medicating and having the symptoms getting worse.

[tshlw]

ordinary fan, on 01 July 2024 - 05:53 AM, said:

She said by word that they are putting a new show together, just no comment about an exact date or what kind of show or place. But most likely vegas since the contract is still running at resorts world

Yes but if been rehearsing at RW crazy been no leaks at all.