Celine Dion and recent comparison with Adele

[LukeD]

1. How does Celine have that 'goat' voice ('your ladyyyyy') in TPOL then? (I'm not saying 'goat' in a bad way. I love it, I just think it's easier to understand what I'm saying)

 

2. I really do not see a contradiction. Adele does not have Celine's range. If you choose a note that Adele cannot reach, then yeah Celine is more everything on that note. One contradiction would be you admitting Celine is not the queen of resonance, and then saying that resonance is automatic when your voice is correctly placed. Does this mean that Celine is so much off tune??

And no, resonance does not have to do anything with range. Tons of singers sing higher notes than Celine in a complete awful non-resonant way.

 

3. Once again, Celine is the best at reaching ONE note in full voice and sustaining it. That's how she attains resonance, even in Us. In 'Hello' there are modulations that are way easier done when you mix your voice a little. I'm not saying Celine cannot do it, but Adele does it with a deeper and more resonant voice.

Also so many excuses of 'bad days' of Celine from the fans here. How come MHWGO was great that day? Celine IS the queen of ballads, but a spinto soprano cannot do everything better than what a good dark mezzo soprano can do. Sorry. It doesn't mean I'm criticizing Celine. I'm just accepting her for what she is. I know she cannot sing 'Emotions' by Mariah Carey, which is completely fine for me. She's still the best.

LOL I hope all these messages are deleted because they are an utter embarrassment for the forum, especially if they are read by people who have studied vocal pedagogy.

 

I love how you bring words like ''goat'' in a discussion about vocals, shows much about your understanding. You said Celine sang with a high larynx in TPOL which is plain WRONG. Signs of singing with a high larynx is straining, the voice sounds raspy like when we shout out loud. There is no raspiness in TPOL.

 

Resonance IS the result of proper placement, being out of tune or not has nothing to do with it. This is a matter of intonation/sense of pitch. Celine has always had great sense of pitch which is why recent performances (AMA, Hello) seem like the exception and not the rule.

 

Vocal range is the amount of notes a singer can sing with actual freedom and power (resonance). Celine has a bigger range than Adele and better breath control too. You contradict when you say Adele is more resonant in high notes and that there are notes Celine reaches and Adele doesn't.

 

I'm not using any excuse but I'm not an idiot to think Celine Dion can't pull off Hello when she can sing Le Blues Du Businessman, yet another ballad full of mid belts. With all that Celine is going through no excuse should be given actually.

Edited January 4, 2016 at 05:47 PM by LukeD

[québecflower]

LOL I hope all these messages are deleted because they are an utter embarrassment for the forum, especially if they are read by people who have studied vocal pedagogy.

 

I love how you bring words like ''goat'' in a discussion about vocals, shows much about your understanding. You said Celine sang with a high larynx in TPOL which is plain WRONG. Signs of singing with a high larynx is straining, the voice sounds raspy like when we shout out loud. There is no raspiness in TPOL.

 

Resonance IS the result of proper placement, being out of tune or not has nothing to do with it. This is a matter of intonation/sense of pitch. Celine has always had great sense of pitch which is why recent performances (AMA, Hello) seem like the exception and not the rule.

 

Vocal range is the amount of notes a singer can sing with actual freedom and power (resonance). Celine has a bigger range than Adele and better breath control too. You contradict when you say Adele is more resonant in high notes and that there are notes Celine reaches and Adele doesn't.

 

I'm not using any excuse but I'm not an idiot to think Celine Dion can't pull off Hello when she can sing Le Blues Du Businessman, yet another ballad full of mid belts. With all that Celine is going through no excuse should be given actually.

you win more

[CelinesDIVO5]

This was more entertaining than a dick measuring contest LOL

[CelinesDIVO5]

Luke, my love...it's no use going back and forth with someone who keeps going back and forth with themselves. Now come back to bed, boo.

[GoldenLeaf]

LOL I hope all these messages are deleted because they are an utter embarrassment for the forum, especially if they are read by people who have studied vocal pedagogy.

 

I love how you bring words like ''goat'' in a discussion about vocals, shows much about your understanding. You said Celine sang with a high larynx in TPOL which is plain WRONG. Signs of singing with a high larynx is straining, the voice sounds raspy like when we shout out loud. There is no raspiness in TPOL.

 

Resonance IS the result of proper placement, being out of tune or not has nothing to do with it. This is a matter of intonation/sense of pitch. Celine has always had great sense of pitch which is why recent performances (AMA, Hello) seem like the exception and not the rule.

 

Vocal range is the amount of notes a singer can sing with actual freedom and power (resonance). Celine has a bigger range than Adele and better breath control too. You contradict when you say Adele is more resonant in high notes and that there are notes Celine reaches and Adele doesn't.

 

I'm not using any excuse but I'm not an idiot to think Celine Dion can't pull off Hello when she can sing Le Blues Du Businessman, yet another ballad full of mid belts. With all that Celine is going through no excuse should be given actually.

I couldn't have said it better!

[Xpresso]

Unlike Céline, Justine doesn't know when to stop singing...

[québecflower]

Unlike Céline, Justine doesn't know when to stop singing...

some people would wish Celine would stop, i guess she is not letting indifferent. Edited January 4, 2016 at 09:09 PM by québecflower

[LukeD]

you win more

I love you more.

[québecflower]

I love you more.

 

i am all workep-up hello Mulder

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

 

i am all workep-up hello Mulder

 

Back. Yourself. Up.

[québecflower]

Back. Yourself. Up.

i won't Ziggy myseld, don't worry...

[Davey84]

i won't Ziggy myseld, don't worry...

Did you mean Ziggy Misled or Ziggy myself?

[québecflower]

Did you mean Ziggy Misled or Ziggy myself?

myself, i'll go see a specialist , i'm deaf and blind... Edited January 4, 2016 at 10:03 PM by québecflower

[justinecoria]

LOL I hope all these messages are deleted because they are an utter embarrassment for the forum, especially if they are read by people who have studied vocal pedagogy.

What's the point of this?

 

I love how you bring words like ''goat'' in a discussion about vocals, shows much about your understanding.

How would you call the special way that she sings 'lady', since you know it all? I just want to learn. Not knowing the words does not mean I don't understand.

 

Resonance IS the result of proper placement, being out of tune or not has nothing to do with it. This is a matter of intonation/sense of pitch.

Resonance happens for so many reasons. Some singers play too much with it. I actually did a PhD on resonances in Nuclear Theory, so don't tell me what resonance is.

And even you said Celine is NOT the queen of resonance. We agree on this. Some other singers are (Whitney, Mariah, Lara). Does this mean that Celine does not know how to properly place her voice?

 

Vocal range is the amount of notes a singer can sing with actual freedom and power (resonance).

Since when? Show me ONE website where vocal range is defined this way. Just one! As this seems to be the key point of your argumentation...

 

I'm not using any excuse but I'm not an idiot to think Celine Dion can't pull off Hello when she can sing Le Blues Du Businessman, yet another ballad full of mid belts. With all that Celine is going through no excuse should be given actually.

What do you think of her performance of MHWGO on the same day she sang 'Hello'? Did her voice magically recover?

 

Anyways, so many people here feeling frightened/scared by the Celine/Adele comparison or maybe Adele's success, when absolutely no-one is claiming Adele is better. So many useless 'thank you' between you just to shut me up, so many bullying. I've tried to stay respectful, and argue on facts/opinions, not on the people, nor 'who the better fan is?'.

This is sad, because that's exactly what Celine's fans should NOT look like. Look at her, singing Adele 'just for fun', because she likes her and doesn't care. She wants to have fun singing her song. She does it, not even trying to make the song better like so many other artists are trying to.

 

I guess this will be my last post. I would appreciate answers to my questions though, in a respectful way if possible. Thanks

Edited January 5, 2016 at 12:24 AM by justinecoria

[Brandon]

What's the point of this?

 

 

How would you call the special way that she sings 'lady', since you know it all? I just want to learn. Not knowing the words does not mean I don't understand.

 

 

Resonance happens for so many reasons. Some singers play too much with it. I actually did a PhD on resonances in Nuclear Theory, so don't tell me what resonance is.

And even you said Celine is NOT the queen of resonance. We agree on this. Some other singers are (Whitney, Mariah, Lara). Does this mean that Celine does not know how to properly place her voice?

 

 

Since when? Show me ONE website where vocal range is defined this way. Just one! As this seems to be the key point of your argumentation...

 

 

What do you think of her performance of MHWGO on the same day she sang 'Hello'? Did her voice magically recover?

 

Anyways, so many people here feeling frightened/scared by the Celine/Adele comparison or maybe Adele's success, when absolutely no-one is claiming Adele is better. So many useless 'thank you' between you just to shut me up, so many bullying. I've tried to stay respectful, and argue on facts/opinions, not on the people, nor 'who the better fan is?'.

This is sad, because that's exactly what Celine's fans should NOT look like. Look at her, singing Adele 'just for fun', because she likes her and doesn't care. She wants to have fun singing her song. She does it, not even trying to make the song better like so many other artists are trying to.

Where is the 'dislike' post button when I need one. Edited January 5, 2016 at 12:35 AM by Brandon

[LukeD]

What's the point of this?

 

How would you call the special way that she sings 'lady', since you know it all? I just want to learn. Not knowing the words does not mean I don't understand.

 

Resonance happens for so many reasons. Some singers play too much with it. I actually did a PhD on resonances in Nuclear Theory, so don't tell me what resonance is.

And even you said Celine is NOT the queen of resonance. We agree on this. Some other singers are (Whitney, Mariah, Lara). Does this mean that Celine does not know how to properly place her voice?

 

Since when? Show me ONE website where vocal range is defined this way. Just one! As this seems to be the key point of your argumentation...

 

What do you think of her performance of MHWGO on the same day she sang 'Hello'? Did her voice magically recover?

 

Anyways, so many people here feeling frightened/scared by the Celine/Adele comparison or maybe Adele's success, when absolutely no-one is claiming Adele is better. So many useless 'thank you' between you just to shut me up, so many bullying. I've tried to stay respectful, and argue on facts/opinions, not on the people, nor 'who the better fan is?'.

This is sad, because that's exactly what Celine's fans should NOT look like. Look at her, singing Adele 'just for fun', because she likes her and doesn't care. She wants to have fun singing her song. She does it, not even trying to make the song better like so many other artists are trying to.

 

I guess this will be my last post. I would appreciate answers to my questions though, in a respectful way if possible. Thanks

You are very confused and certainly not in position to ask for any answers after the mess you caused with your posts. Once again I'll reply though:

 

Resonance IN SINGING (Your PhD is irrelevant) is when the singer uses the natural cavities in the skull (through vocal technique) to amplify the sound, which results into a richer, fuller, vibrant sound. It is achieved when the singer sings with a neutral larynx ''through the diaphragm''. So resonance does NOT happen for many reasons and I said before it is NOT a tool to play with. If a singer sings properly, then the resonance (power) will be there. To end this parody, my comment about Celine not being the queen of resonance means her singing technique CAN be flawed. For example, when she sings with a high larynx or when she is nasal.

 

About the recent performance of Hello, not being in the best psychological condition means her performances can be a hit or miss. I disliked the cover but I don't consider that Celine suddenly lost her sense of pitch, after a good 35 years of exemplary intonation.

 

You say absolutely nobody claims Adele is better but it was YOU who said Adele is more resonant at high notes and that Hello is too versatile for Celine.

 

Website:

1.https://en.wikipedia...iki/Vocal_range 'Vocal pedagogists tend to define the vocal range as the total span of "musically useful" pitches that a singer can produce.'

2.http://www.singwise.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?section=articles&doc=UnderstandingVocalRangeRegistersAndType

Any website to back up your theories? No. Good. Bye.

Edited January 5, 2016 at 03:11 AM by LukeD

[Koolan]

Think both of you already got your points across. If you feel the need to respond, please do so privately. The thread is on the edge of being locked.

[browseceline]

What about..for the sake of Celine take away everything we discussed about hello so far?( including the pages long discussions in the revamped show topic) And let's just hope this is the last time we have such big discussions?

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G901F met Tapatalk

Edited January 5, 2016 at 09:15 AM by browseceline

[celine4evauk]

Is it me or does anyone else think it's time to perhaps close this particular thread?

[browseceline]

And everything adele and hello in the revamped show topic. Our criticism is good and meant for positive feedback but it is getting out of hand with fans digitally arguing with each other and for Celine it is not good either. One little video filmed by a fan causing this much commotion. Let us focus on everything that is good from now on! Everyone has said what he or she wanted to say. It has been read by most of us. Now gone with all these endless pages of discussion.

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G901F met Tapatalk

Edited January 5, 2016 at 09:38 AM by browseceline

[scielle]

What about..for the sake of Celine take away everything we discussed about hello so far?( including the pages long discussions in the revamped show topic) And let's just hope this is the last time we have such big discussions?

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G901F met Tapatalk

 

Huh? That's the whole reason we're here...

 

And everything adele and hello in the revamped show topic. Our criticism is good and meant for positive feedback but it is getting out of hand with fans digitally arguing with each other and for Celine it is not good either. One little video filmed by a fan causing this much commotion. Let us focus on everything that is good from now on! Everyone has said what he or she wanted to say. It has been read by most of us. Now gone with all these endless pages of discussion.

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G901F met Tapatalk

 

Again. I'm here for healthy debate not blind adulation. You don't have to read or agree with everything that's said. This suggestion amounts to censorship.

[justinecoria]

Website:

1.https://en.wikipedia...iki/Vocal_range 'Vocal pedagogists tend to define the vocal range as the total span of "musically useful" pitches that a singer can produce.'

2.http://www.singwise.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?section=articles&doc=UnderstandingVocalRangeRegistersAndTypeAny website to back up your theories? No. Good. Bye.

I'm sorry but those websites totally back up 'my' definition of vocal range. 'A pop artist could include notes that could be heard with the aid of a microphone.' (Your wikipedia link!!). 'Musically useful' has more sense in opera-singing than in pop singing (your websites again...), where probably only exclamations or standard whistles have to be excluded. Absolutely everywhere, when they talk about a pop singer's range, they consider the 'span between their lowest note and their highest note'. Bigger range does not mean better resonance. Never ever.

 

Also, we agree that neutral larynx is necessary for achieving resonance. But by contracting the rib cage, placing the diaphragm or opening the mouth in a certain way, it can be increased/decreased. Resonance happens everywhere from the rib cage to the mouth. In TPOL's second chorus, on 'Ladyyyyy' and 'do all that I caaaaan', Celine has different levels of resonance.

 

I'm also still waiting for how singing experts would call the way that Celine sings 'Cause I'm your ladYYYY', as I made a fool of myself giving it wrong names.

 

And please, I never meant Celine could not sing Hello. So many professional and Youtube singers are singing Adele's songs, supposedly making them better. I just said that songs like Someone Like You or Hello which are not that special are only great/famous because it has Adele's voice signature on them. Other singers singing the song note for note will most than probably not bring anything special. For Celine to have the 'wow' factor, she needs a certain type of songs that show how special her voice is.

Edited January 5, 2016 at 07:36 PM by justinecoria

[LukeD]

I'm sorry but those websites totally back up 'my' definition of vocal range. 'A pop artist could include notes that could be heard with the aid of a microphone.' (Your wikipedia link!!). 'Musically useful' has more sense in opera-singing than in pop singing (your websites again...), where probably only exclamations or standard whistles have to be excluded. Absolutely everywhere, when they talk about a singer's range, they consider the span between their lowest note and their highest note. Bigger range does not mean better resonance. Never ever.

 

Also, we agree that neutral larynx is necessary for achieving resonance. But by contracting the rib cage, placing the diaphragm or opening the throat in a certain way, it can be increased. Resonance happens everywhere from the rib cage to the mouth. In TPOL's second chorus, on 'Ladyyyyy' and 'do all that I caaaaan', Celine has different levels of resonance.

 

I'm also still waiting for how singing experts would call the way that Celine sings 'Cause I'm your ladYYYY', as I made a fool of myself giving it wrong names.

 

''While the broadest definition of vocal range is simply the span from the lowest to the highest note a particular voice can produce, this broad definition is often not what is meant when "vocal range" is discussed in the context of singing. Vocal pedagogists tend to define the vocal range as the total span of "musically useful" pitches that a singer can produce.''

 

Who told you screeches or breathy low notes are counted in pop singing as actual range? The notes need to be SUNG to be part of SINGING range. Simple logic.

 

Nobody said vocal range means more resonance or Mariah Carey would be the most powerful singer and she is not. This is a conclusion you made (thinking I said so) because you are an ignorant and couldn't make sense of what I posted earlier: that since Adele has a very limited range in belting (Has she ever gone above C5 live?) there is no way she is more resonant than Celine in the rest high notes (since Celine nails the C5s with more power and has properly belted up to G5).

 

Celine is playing with dynamics in TPOL which has nothing to do with her placement or resonance for that mattter.

Edited January 5, 2016 at 07:40 PM by LukeD

[CelinesDIVO5]

That "goat" sound is vibrato.

[québecflower]

That "goat" sound is vibrato.

that's what it was...

[justinecoria]

''While the broadest definition of vocal range is simply the span from the lowest to the highest note a particular voice can produce, this broad definition is often not what is meant when "vocal range" is discussed in the context of singing. Vocal pedagogists tend to define the vocal range as the total span of "musically useful" pitches that a singer can produce.''

Who told you screeches or breathy low notes are counted in pop singing as actual range?

You are deliberately hiding the crucial definition of 'musically useful' that both your links give, in which they mainly talk about opera singing. Wikipedia even says 'A pop artist could include [in their range] notes that could be heard with the aid of a microphone.' It does not mention power or resonance as you, the non-ignorant, said. Actually, resonance is rarely clearly attained at the limits of one's vocal range. And breathy low notes a la Mariah Carey are often included in a singer's range.

 

That "goat" sound is vibrato.

Please, it's not (only) vibrato. Compare the 'I do all that I cAAAAAAAn' in the first and second chorus of TPOL. Both have vibratos, the first one has something different, for which I got insulted for calling it 'goat' voice with quotes and saying that I don't mean it in a bad way as I actually love it. LukeD called it 'playing with the dynamics' which I like more, but I would appreciate something more specific. You cannot call me ignorant again and again about it, when no one is able to give a name to it, come on!

Edited January 5, 2016 at 09:30 PM by justinecoria

[québecflower]

now this is a game of Dictionnary. Bring the words.

 

 

I guess if you take the word Lady ,, and Can, those are not the kind of words where you'll be the most resonant. Whe you say it , you feel your voval chords contract a little, i'm no specialist but i think iif you make an open A versus a Closed y, you would have to be quit an athlete to obtain the same resonance,

Edited January 5, 2016 at 09:49 PM by québecflower

[CelinesDIVO5]

 

You are deliberately hiding the crucial definition of 'musically useful' that both your links give, in which they mainly talk about opera singing. Wikipedia even says 'A pop artist could include [in their range] notes that could be heard with the aid of a microphone.' It does not mention power or resonance as you, the non-ignorant, said. Actually, resonance is rarely clearly attained at the limits of one's vocal range. And breathy low notes a la Mariah Carey are often included in a singer's range.

 

 

Please, it's not (only) vibrato. Compare the 'I do all that I cAAAAAAAn' in the first and second chorus of TPOL. Both have vibratos, the first one has something different, for which I got insulted for calling it 'goat' voice with quotes and saying that I don't mean it in a bad way as I actually love it. LukeD called it 'playing with the dynamics' which I like more, but I would appreciate something more specific. You cannot call me ignorant again and again about it, when no one is able to give a name to it, come on!

 

The only difference is that she's using more chest voice in the second chorus, rather than the first chorus she uses more head voice. On the line you specifically mentioned, she goes nasal on the word "can" on the first verse. However being nasal has nothing to do with whether or not one can be resonant on a note. As a tenor who can sing "The Power of Love" in Celine's original key, I was told by my vocal coach that I should go through my nose on higher notes in order to keep resonance on them.

Edited January 5, 2016 at 09:53 PM by CelinesDIVO5

[Brandon]

You are deliberately hiding the crucial definition of 'musically useful' that both your links give, in which they mainly talk about opera singing. Wikipedia even says 'A pop artist could include [in their range] notes that could be heard with the aid of a microphone.' It does not mention power or resonance as you, the non-ignorant, said. Actually, resonance is rarely clearly attained at the limits of one's vocal range. And breathy low notes a la Mariah Carey are often included in a singer's range.

 

 

Please, it's not (only) vibrato. Compare the 'I do all that I cAAAAAAAn' in the first and second chorus of TPOL. Both have vibratos, the first one has something different, for which I got insulted for calling it 'goat' voice with quotes and saying that I don't mean it in a bad way as I actually love it. LukeD called it 'playing with the dynamics' which I like more, but I would appreciate something more specific. You cannot call me ignorant again and again about it, when no one is able to give a name to it, come on!

You've been asked to take it to private messaging, so why don't you. We are Celine fans here.

[Brandon]

Huh? That's the whole reason we're here...

 

 

 

Again. I'm here for healthy debate not blind adulation. You don't have to read or agree with everything that's said. This suggestion amounts to censorship.

No, I'm not here to read pages and pages of non-sensical garbage about Adele. I'm not saying we can't mention other artists but certain people (ahem) are out of control. Keep in mind this is a Celine forum. I am a Celine fan and come here to read and discuss about Celine, not Adele.

I wouldn't be going to an Adele forum everyday to post things about why Celine is better.

And don't play the censorship card. The Adele fan has been asked to take it to private for a certain reason, cuz everyone is turned off. Maybe they should just take it to the Adele forum instead.

Edited January 5, 2016 at 10:20 PM by Brandon