4650 replies to this topic

[rodrigofreitas]

https://music.apple....rsion/277264992
This Digital Version on Itunes

[rfkavanagh]

I guess I don't really count digital versions as "canon" for the album - they can add any old track they want on there as a bonus, and remove it just as easily.  None of the official physical editions of Taking Chances contain Immensité.

That said, there's certainly an argument to be made that these days more people will discover an album through its digital formats than on a physical release.  Which is endlessly depressing...  

[scielle]

Zofia, on 09 February 2024 - 11:50 AM, said:

"These docs make fame seem like torture. Paparazzi, loss of privacy, the challenge of staying sane while satisfying expectations — it’s enough to make a celebrity weep."

The irony is biting and fair.
And to think that it's "thanks to illness" that the weight of the genre of a documentary on Céline can protect her from this self-congratulatory series...

I guess the cruel twist of SPS was a kind of silver lining for this project, forcing it pivot and hopefully avoid some of these common tropes. I’m sure it’ll still check a lot of the boxes but now it’s got a greater purpose.
I hope the producers have/ will check in with the larger SPS community before this is released. Wouldn’t want this to misrepresent the “commoner” experience. Clearly most people with this disease don’t have the resources Céline does and if this doc is intended to raise awareness, it needs to be mindful of how the larger SPS community is affected.

[Zofia]

scielle, on 09 February 2024 - 05:29 PM, said:

I guess the cruel twist of SPS was a kind of silver lining for this project, forcing it pivot and hopefully avoid some of these common tropes. I'm sure it'll still check a lot of the boxes but now it's got a greater purpose.
I hope the producers have/ will check in with the larger SPS community before this is released. Wouldn't want this to misrepresent the "commoner" experience. Clearly most people with this disease don't have the resources Céline does and if this doc is intended to raise awareness, it needs to be mindful of how the larger SPS community is affected.

I hope so, too. Patients who publish critical comments about Céline after the Grammy Awards focus on two things: money (one tabloid wrote last year that she "has the best care money can buy," which resonates very badly today) and her great looks. There's a lot of tension; some people say, "That's not the truth about this disease," while others rightly note that she has only shown herself in her best moments. I think that only through the documentary - in addition to increasing interest in the disease and opening up new funding opportunities for research - Céline will be recognized by the community as one of them.

[LukeD]

I do not see complaints coming from some SPS patients to be an issue. The awareness Celine spread will always outweigh any negatives. This was the first step for the disease to be taken seriously. Furthermore, the fact that a global icon suffered from SPS did its bit to sensitise the public. And I am sure a lot more contributions are to come. For one, the documentary will show aspects of the SPS reality, accounting for its nature and impact. I would also not be surprised to see Celine actively supporting organisations focusing on neurological disorders. We all know how much she's done for Cystic Fibrosis. Celine is an empathetic person, the majority of those who criticise her will come around.

[Nmj]

LukeD, on 09 February 2024 - 08:53 PM, said:

I do not see complaints coming from some SPS patients to be an issue. The awareness Celine spread will always outweigh any negatives. This was the first step for the disease to be taken seriously. Furthermore, the fact that a global icon suffered from SPS did its bit to sensitise the public. And I am sure a lot more contributions are to come. For one, the documentary will show aspects of the SPS reality, accounting for its nature and impact. I would also not be surprised to see Celine actively supporting organisations focusing on neurological disorders. We all know how much she's done for Cystic Fibrosis. Celine is an empathetic person, the majority of those who criticise her will come around.

I’m sure even in the documentary some patients with SPS will think Celine is showing a watered down version of the illness too because for everyone this disease is different.  So I don’t think they could please everyone, but of course she’s already brought so much to this terrible illness and it’s only going to increase from here forward.

[comingback]

zuv, on 09 February 2024 - 06:54 AM, said:

IMG_9673.png

Is this legit?

No

I think it will be sth. like that:

[Zofia]

LukeD, on 09 February 2024 - 08:53 PM, said:

I do not see complaints coming from some SPS patients to be an issue. The awareness Celine spread will always outweigh any negatives. This was the first step for the disease to be taken seriously. Furthermore, the fact that a global icon suffered from SPS did its bit to sensitise the public. And I am sure a lot more contributions are to come. For one, the documentary will show aspects of the SPS reality, accounting for its nature and impact. I would also not be surprised to see Celine actively supporting organisations focusing on neurological disorders. We all know how much she's done for Cystic Fibrosis. Celine is an empathetic person, the majority of those who criticise her will come around.

I think it's not that simple. Céline's objective merits are already great, and there is no reason to worry about her image, but I'm talking about the emotions of a part of the community of patients (justified, though not always fair, because in such situations people are more likely to direct their anger against individuals instead of against the system). It's also not about "pleasing everyone." Rather, the point is that if the fears of these critical people come true and it turns out that remission can be achieved in this disease in a few months, but only on the condition of being a millionaire, that wouldn't exactly be good news.

But for now, it's too early to prejudge; it's possible that simply luck, rather than money, proved more important to the success of the treatment. For the moment, there is much to be happy about.

[Dreamy]

Hopefully we will have the official announcement of the premiere as soon as possible. If we don't have it today, I'm sure it will be in May.

[Nmj]

Dreamy, on 11 February 2024 - 06:15 AM, said:

Hopefully we will have the official announcement of the premiere as soon as possible. If we don't have it today, I'm sure it will be in May.

You think the premiere will be in May or the announcement will be in May?

[Dreamy]

I'm sorry, I was meaning the premiere in may .
In my last post I said: "If today is .... it was a mistake . I have to be very careful what I write.
It all depends on the business  if it all depended on Amazon MGM Studios, we would see it in a very short period of time.
As I said a few days ago, there are a lot of business stuff. We already know how in the past that albums releases have had to be postponed, as well as films and so on.

[comingback]

Dreamy, on 11 February 2024 - 08:48 AM, said:

I'm sorry, I was meaning the premiere in may .
In my last post I said: "If today is .... it was a mistake . I have to be very careful what I write.
It all depends on the business  if it all depended on Amazon MGM Studios, we would see it in a very short period of time.
As I said a few days ago, there are a lot of business stuff. We already know how in the past that albums releases have had to be postponed, as well as films and so on.

So maybe the premiere will be at the Cannes film festival in May and later on Amazon Prime🙂.

Edited by comingback, 11 February 2024 - 10:35 AM.

[scielle]

comingback, on 11 February 2024 - 10:34 AM, said:

So maybe the premiere will be at the Cannes film festival in May and later on Amazon Prime��.

That's where my money's at. European Cannes premiere in May, maybe North American premiere at Tribeca in June. Or maybe Hot Docs in Toronto first, which is about 2 weeks before Cannes.
They might wait until the fall season with TIFF since that would probably be more impactful, but seems too far away for something that was announced in Jan. Still, stranger things have happened.

Of course the summer months are not the peak of streaming season, so don't know if Amazon would release it online right away. Hard to gauge from their past releases.

And I guess it all really depends if/ when Celine is ready to get back on stage in some form, as I imagine the release date will move accordingly. Summer might be a good time if the intent is to release tickets for fall shows (IF Vegas is happening).

[Zofia]

scielle, on 08 February 2024 - 09:46 PM, said:

Yes! I've always wanted this. And it's more possible now than ever. English is not the dominant language of pop music it once was. And so many people who only know her for the English work don't even know she sings in French, too. Might be a good way to introduce them.

It's a very interesting idea; simultaneously a continuation of her two careers - and a new beginning.

English-speaking but Montreal-based Allison Russell goes even further in a sense, as she often weaves a stanza or two in French into her great English-language songs.

BTW, if Céline manages to get back into recording, I dream that she will get well-written songs with substance to express who she is today.

[actofcontrition]

Zofia, on 11 February 2024 - 05:44 PM, said:

BTW, if Céline manages to get back into recording, I dream that she will get well-written songs with substance to express who she is today.

Would be a good time to record the songs she has written.

[Zofia]

actofcontrition, on 11 February 2024 - 05:52 PM, said:

Would be a good time to record the songs she has written.

I doubt if she will go for it. In her generation, writing songs for oneself was not a given; most performers were roughly divided into songwriters who sang not so well and outstanding singers who usually sang other people's songs. After all, how many things at once can one do outstandingly

[scielle]

Zofia, on 11 February 2024 - 05:44 PM, said:

English-speaking but Montreal-based Allison Russell goes even further in a sense, as she often weaves a stanza or two in French into her great English-language songs.

BTW, if Céline manages to get back into recording, I dream that she will get well-written songs with substance to express who she is today.

Recent Grammy-winning Allison Russell!

And yes. I’ve always so wished she’d team up with a substantive songwriter who “gets” her. An English JJG, if you will. Her discography doesn’t do justice to her talent. In being the demo gatekeeper, this is where I think Rene really did her a disservice.

And it always irks me when people say she’s not an artist because she doesn’t write her own songs. Well guess what, most artists today who get songwriting credit don’t write them either. There are entire teams of professional songwriters behind most of those artists. That’s why the music publishing industry exists. A publisher’s entire job is to get its writers in studio with A-list performers. Of course, some of those artists contribute more than others, but many get credit for simply showing up.

[actofcontrition]

Zofia, on 11 February 2024 - 06:23 PM, said:

I doubt if she will go for it. In her generation, writing songs for oneself was not a given; most performers were roughly divided into songwriters who sang not so well and outstanding singers who usually sang other people's songs. After all, how many things at once can one do outstandingly

She already wrote many songs. In « For keeps » i think she speak about a dark song titled « drop by drop » and on tv she said many times she wrote many songs at home. And i remember Scott Price said few years ago he would be not so surprise if she record her songs someday

[Zofia]

scielle, on 11 February 2024 - 07:16 PM, said:

And yes. I've always so wished she'd team up with a substantive songwriter who "gets" her. An English JJG, if you will. Her discography doesn't do justice to her talent. In being the demo gatekeeper, this is where I think Rene really did her a disservice.

Yes, without taking anything away from her hits with not always the deepest content, without Goldman her catalog would be so much poorer... And after all, there was still Plamondon. Worse on the English-speaking side.

scielle, on 11 February 2024 - 07:16 PM, said:

And it always irks me when people say she’s not an artist because she doesn’t write her own songs.

I have always found this accusation absurd. It's like denying actors artistry because they don't write their own scripts. Céline may not have been much associated with the art of interpretation, but since she took for example on a difficult classic that requires restraint, Léo Ferré's "Avec le temps", at the 2016 ADISQ gala, it's hard not to appreciate her potential.

scielle, on 11 February 2024 - 07:16 PM, said:

Recent Grammy-winning Allison Russell!

I'm very happy about this Grammy; I've been a fan of Allison since her wonderful debut album (and even before that, since the "Our Native Daughters" project). I look at the circle of women in the folk and roots movement, Allison Russell, Rhiannon Giddens or Brandi Carlile, and I see there creativity, lack of narcissism, willingness to collaborate, cross various barriers and a large dose of mutual solidarity. The story of Brandi and Joni's friendship is a great example. I would love such a friendly and creative environment for Céline, especially now...

[scielle]

Well, she has had a lot of time for introspection these past few years. Let’s see what comes of it.
I think she has written quite a few songs over the years, just none that actually saw the light of day. I suspect she probably just doesn’t have the confidence in the work. Maybe she just needs someone to guide her through it. Help turn journal entries into lyrics.

[tshlw]

scielle, on 11 February 2024 - 09:22 PM, said:

Well, she has had a lot of time for introspection these past few years. Let's see what comes of it.
I think she has written quite a few songs over the years, just none that actually saw the light of day. I suspect she probably just doesn't have the confidence in the work. Maybe she just needs someone to guide her through it. Help turn journal entries into lyrics.

It could be a lack of confidence but more I think was a lack of time. She has said she likes to focus on one thing at a time.

Also she is such a perfectionist that probably made her feel needed more time to focus on writing, not so much needing someone to guide her.

Rene was the one that got her to ask Rick Wake for help finishing Don't Save it All for Christmas. In the book For Keeps it was mentioned Rene would love her to write more of her own songs, he said it was due partly to lack of confidence and that he and others would encouraged her. Celine said it was due to lack of time. So maybe with the time away she will have done some writing of her own.

Edited by tshlw, 11 February 2024 - 10:16 PM.

[Chantemoi]

Zofia, on 11 February 2024 - 05:44 PM, said:

It's a very interesting idea; simultaneously a continuation of her two careers - and a new beginning.

English-speaking but Montreal-based Allison Russell goes even further in a sense, as she often weaves a stanza or two in French into her great English-language songs.

BTW, if Céline manages to get back into recording, I dream that she will get well-written songs with substance to express who she is today.

We can * only * hope. But if Courage’s poor performance is taken into consideration, I’m afraid we may end up with another grab-bag of commercial songs trying even harder to reach an obscure fan base (whose diversity is rivaled by few others).

On the other hand, it’s safe to say the events in her life since 2021 have given her even more courage to do what she wants musically and explore new territories in her English-language recordings. We can dream!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zofia]

Chantemoi, on 11 February 2024 - 10:43 PM, said:

We can * only * hope. But if Courage’s poor performance is taken into consideration, I’m afraid we may end up with another grab-bag of commercial songs trying even harder to reach an obscure fan base (whose diversity is rivaled by few others).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. The latter option is more likely. It is easier for the disease to change us than for us to change our long-standing habits. But on the other hand, her return to recording, let alone the stage, is still something so uncertain and threatened that if she succeeds in anything, I promise not to whine even about commercial songs for no one knows who

scielle, on 11 February 2024 - 09:22 PM, said:

Well, she has had a lot of time for introspection these past few years. Let's see what comes of it.
I think she has written quite a few songs over the years, just none that actually saw the light of day. I suspect she probably just doesn't have the confidence in the work. Maybe she just needs someone to guide her through it. Help turn journal entries into lyrics.

I still don't really believe that she will start writing on her own; she is a perfectionist and knows very well what is excellent and what is merely so-so. These collaborative works, written by six people just so that a performer can be added to the list of authors for royalties, are rarely more than generic correctness.

But I am willing to be surprised and acknowledge my own mistake. After all, writing is also great therapy.

I wonder - if in fact RC were to start earning for his poker by her side - if he would not be promoted to guide and advisor. What aesthetic choices would it bring? Surely that would be emotionally and organizationally the easiest thing for her to do; only he could sit in René's chair. Despite what she says, Céline never did well as her own boss. She became emancipated in fashion, but not enough to start designing on her own; she needed to collaborate with Law or with the owners of Celinununu (for which I admired her greatly, and I'm writing about it here because it logs me out of the "Random" thread). There are artists of the "I'll do everything myself" type and the "I'll give the best I've got, but only if I have someone to work with" type.

[scielle]

Zofia, on 12 February 2024 - 04:41 AM, said:

I wonder - if in fact RC were to start earning for his poker by her side - if he would not be promoted to guide and advisor. What aesthetic choices would it bring? Surely that would be emotionally and organizationally the easiest thing for her to do; only he could sit in René's chair. Despite what she says, Céline never did well as her own boss. She became emancipated in fashion, but not enough to start designing on her own; she needed to collaborate with Law or with the owners of Celinununu (for which I admired her greatly, and I'm writing about it here because it logs me out of the "Random" thread). There are artists of the "I'll do everything myself" type and the "I'll give the best I've got, but only if I have someone to work with" type.

I know we’ve discussed this in another thread, and a few years ago I would have thought it’s crazy, but now I really think RC getting involved is not at all far-fetched. She has historically surrounded herself with family and with people she has known and trusted for years, whether they had any experience for the job or not (like making her sound guy her co-manager). And RC having grown up in the business, he could well have the necessary skills. He has shown a willingness to be there for her when it counts and is clearly proud of what his parents accomplished. And for the manager gig, what you need most I think is ambition and belief in the artist (so long as you hire a good lawyer!)

I keep coming back to the Tony Bennet example. In the 70s, Tony was broke, drugs nearly killed him, and his career was in the dumps. Then his twenty-something-year-old son stepped in at the end of the decade and totally revived it. He had Tony topping charts - with Gaga and others - well into his 90s. He built his dad into a legend.

https://www.washingt...e-career-drugs/
https://www.nytimes....-his-son-s.html

As for aesthetic choices - who knows. Seems he might be over his SoundCloud rapper phase? I vaguely recall her mentioning he often shows her clips/ artists he thinks she’d like, or that she discovers artists through him, which would be logical. In any case, just by virtue of age he’s clearly more tapped in to the current music scene than any of his mom’s current management.

If there’s one thing he can and should do it’s take over her socials, because I think we’d all agree TC efforts are pitiful.

But anyway, given this is the doc thread, I wonder how much we’ll see him in it.

Edited by scielle, 12 February 2024 - 06:56 AM.

[scielle]

Oh and importantly, as others have said, Celine is surrounded by a lot of aging “yes men”. She needs someone to tell her no. And RC can.

Edited by scielle, 12 February 2024 - 07:06 AM.

[Zofia]

Right, Bennet's story is really amazing. It can work, as long as you have imagination, courage, taste, industry discernment, intuition, ability to work with people... A little bit of those qualities. It may be relatively easy to find money for a good lawyer And I think we know a little too little about RC?

Well, I, too, would have croaked not long ago about another "family business," because it can limit an artist greatly, but I think that in the fragile situation in which Céline is now, the support of loved ones is absolutely crucial. It's probably hard for us to imagine what it means for a performer to experience so acutely how her own body - her own instrument - betrays and fails. Even if it's already relatively stable (which we don't know), rebuilding trust in one's own body means a tremendous amount of physical and mental work. There is little strength left to meet and trust new people - especially since Céline, who knows her profession inside out, surely knows well why she reinforced her distrust of people for years.

And returning to the topic of this thread, indeed the theme of family has recurred in almost every Irene documentary. It will be interesting to see how it will be this time, and how much the family will be portrayed - the discreet sister and sons, about whom we know very little in total.

[Nmj]

scielle, on 11 February 2024 - 10:46 AM, said:

That's where my money's at. European Cannes premiere in May, maybe North American premiere at Tribeca in June. Or maybe Hot Docs in Toronto first, which is about 2 weeks before Cannes.
They might wait until the fall season with TIFF since that would probably be more impactful, but seems too far away for something that was announced in Jan. Still, stranger things have happened.

Of course the summer months are not the peak of streaming season, so don't know if Amazon would release it online right away. Hard to gauge from their past releases.

And I guess it all really depends if/ when Celine is ready to get back on stage in some form, as I imagine the release date will move accordingly. Summer might be a good time if the intent is to release tickets for fall shows (IF Vegas is happening).

If we don’t see the release of the documentary between March and May, I’d say at that point it would make more sense to wait until September at the earliest. We obviously don’t know if Celine intends or will be well enough to promote this in the media circuits, but my guess is if she stays in comparable health as of late that she would do some interviews and talk shows etc.
Many of those shows are on hiatus during the summer months, and like you said summer months seem to be the slowest for streaming and television.

However, any guesses on the intent to announce this documentary “officially” in January “if” the documentary isn’t out until let’s say September, does a project like this need to be given 8 months notice? Or do we think that when you got wind that Celine would be showing up at the Grammys this announcement beforehand was their way of saying, “Stay Tuned”  and run with all the press she received by walking out on that stage. It’s great promotion for the documentary which was mentioned by many outlets when covering her appearance… however, we know people have short attention spans… is there really a point of people don’t even know the date of release?

I hope they plan some big events right as this documentary eventually drops.  But it all seems odd to me so far.

[Dreamy]

They have made a good deal with Amazon MGM Studios.  Aside from the fact that the documentary is available for viewing, of course.
Let's not forget that we might be able to buy some new stuff if they decide to release it.
The documentary will be available sooner or later, we will be able to buy it on Amazon, as well as all the "products" related to Céline Dion and of course her discography.
Maybe they are in negotiations to have exclusivity to sell as the first ones the brand new ones: music released, audiovisual projects and as well the ones they already have by Céline has.( already released,) Amazon will make a good promotion of discounts, special editions to buy. Maybe we will have the month of Céline Dion and we will have a lot of things to buy.
I don't think Amazon made this deal just to show the documentary. They are going to take advantage and monetise everything related to Céline Dion, all the possible brand new material they can sell and the previous ones of course.

[ordinary fan]

So as far as I know there are no official plans to release new music along the documentary right? But I'd like to be pleasantly surprised

[Zofia]

Nmj, on 12 February 2024 - 08:13 PM, said:

I hope they plan some big events right as this documentary eventually drops.  But it all seems odd to me so far.

Dreamy, on 13 February 2024 - 02:06 AM, said:

Maybe we will have the month of Céline Dion and we will have a lot of things to buy.

For this documentary in particular, I am looking forward more to the interviews with Irene. The film's eloquence will be stronger if Céline doesn't get too much media exposure during this time. And I hope that despite the Amazon deal, the film won't be lost in the flood of "a lot of things to buy" (especially since the last few years on her social media have been mostly "a lot of things to buy"). Given the subject of the documentary and the reality of life, there is something embarrassing about this capitalization of everything, including illness or disability - or at least I have a problem with it.