Celine's voice concern

[Tal]

When you talk about techinique vs screaming, does it have anything to do with singing in head voice vs chest voice?

[Bellamy]

I think Celine took some opera way training after she lost her voice around 1990 and went to see Pavarotti's doctor?

Also Sarah Brightman is an example of learning opera way singing very late I think. I know her technics are not same as Celine's, but I prefer Celine's way singing much more.

[Lawna]

She sure did sound great on the Tyra Banks clip!

[Tal]

i saw sarah brightman in concert at radio city music hall a few years back and she lipped the ENTIRE concert from the album no less! at least when celine lips she mostly does it from a live track so it fools the non scf's. anywyas the only song she sang live was time to say goodbye and she sounded like crap.

 

well thats why i asked my question about head vs chest voice. cause it seems pop singers sing predominantly with chest and that deteriorates the voice much quicker. but the sound is much different then singing operatically. so if celine did train to sing that way she wouldnt sound the way she does now....she'd sound like an opera singer, right?

[ginossi]

Dear Tal,

 

I'll try to answer your question as clearly as I possible can without confusing you.

Just because you get an opera training, DOES NOT mean that you will sound like an opera singer, you know, opera singers can be spotted indmediately 'cause of the way their voices sound, right?. It's not that their voices became like that, they get that sound because of specific spots where they place the voice, I'll explain this.

 

In singing, the face is called "the mask" and within the mask there are resonators, usually asleep, when you train to become a singer, you learn how to wake them up and use them so they voice will have power and can proyect without having to scream. So you learn to place the sounds of your voice in specific parts of the face. This is very abstract, I know and I'm sorry. For example, Celine tends to place her sounds, therefore her voice very much in the nose area, that's why she sounds so nasal, I know it's her trademark but if you want to sing properly, meaning, if you want to have a healthy singing voice, the nasal thing should be eliminated completely.

 

When air goes through the vocal cords, they vibrate and that's when sound appears, wether singing or speaking. But when you sing, you have to use or learn to use a different kind of breathing and that is diaphragmatic breathing. The thing in your stomache that makes it go up and down is your diaphragm, it moves naturally, well when you sing you have to control that. Have to make it go down, that way you get the right support to sing. Hitting the high notes is the hardest thing for every artist.

 

Celine has a talented voice by nature, she knows she has an acute voice and can hit high notes without technique, why? is probably easier for her but she must know that talent has to be backed up with technique otherwise, it won't last. So sometimes she uses head voice and sometimes she uses chest voice. Celine relies way too much on the chest voice, why???, because it's easier than applying all the technique and it's easier than using head voice. By the way, is hard to master the head voice in coordination with the breathing.

 

So ultimately, all those tricks she turns to end up deteriorating the voice and can cause serious damages. The voice is a muscle and if it's not trained every day for the rest of your life, it loses its memory and that's when it all goes to s***, especially if you're older.

 

Regarding Sarah Brightman, PLEASE, do not listen to that woman or take her as an example, that is not a real opera singer. I mean, listen to her if you want, I respect her but she's just a mixture of pop/pseudo-opera, whatever, that is NOT how a proper opera singer sings. Serious female opera singers include brilliant people like Maria Callas or Monsterrat Caballe which did the duet Barcelona with Freddy Mercury.

 

Hope I cleared some doubts, if not, shoot, it's my pleasure. Anyway, I'll love Celine till death, you know why?, it's not the fact that she hits high notes, there are better singers in terms of who can hit that note or the other and in the future, there will be more singers who can do that but what's really unique about Celine is the expression in her voice, the ability to touch people, there's a sensibility which can be felt and heard in her voice even if you're not looking at her, there's true feelings, this woman before being called a singer is ONE HELL OF AN ACTREES. She knows how to get that across, how to deliver and that IS THE POWER OF CELINE DION.

 

Gonzalo.-

Edited May 2, 2006 at 09:17 PM by ginossi

[Bellamy]

I didn't mean Sarah Brightman is a proper opera singer. I just mean she's a pop singer learn to sing opera way later. I don't want Celine learn opera way singing like that, and sound like that. I don't want Celine sound like Maria Callas or Monsterrat Caballe neither, even they're brilliant. I love Celine because of her unique voice.

[xo1hrt4celineox]

there's a sensibility which can be felt and heard in her voice even if you're not looking at her, there's true feelings...She knows how to get that across, how to deliver and that IS THE POWER OF CELINE DION.

 

Gonzalo.-

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hell yea! Very well said, i agree.

[MTJ]

I definitly agree with solaris and bellamy. With the time and money celine puts into keeping her voice safe I can't see anyway (even with the vegas weather and the muliti shows) that it would deterriorate as fast as people seem to think it is. When you think about it, with her house/stage humidity levels designed for her voice, the +hour of warming up before each preformance, etc, it doens't fit that her voice would be worse. Maybe she's trying a different style? more naisly and jazz-like... maybe it has to do with her voice not being at its trained peak... or maybe it's actually better than before... ? In miracle she doesn't hold strong notes as she did in the 90's... but in tous les secrets you can hear it. I think miracle actually shows a lot of softer power she didn't have before. The roll at the end of my precious one... yeah. pretty awsome. I wouldn't worry about her voice-- that's why she pays her voice doctor so much!

[MTJ]

and now that I read Gonzalo's post I think he explained the differences wonderfuly. And even though celine does cheat from time to time she doesn't do it enogh (or to a strong enough degree) to ruin her voice as fast as people think it's happening

[ginossi]

Thank you guys, glad I helped. This goes to "Bellamy" and "I'm going to bite your face".

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't EVER want Celine to sound like Maria Callas or any other opera singer, that why we all love Celine but like I said, getting a good solid academic training does not mean you'll sound like an opera singer. The way people sound depends EXCLUSIVELY on where you place your sounds within the face or "mask". I'm not saying Celine's voice is deteriorating maximum speed but unfortunately, those little tricks and cheats damage the voice, it's a fact, not so much damage as weaken the voice. The muscles get used to cheating pretty easily, this may sound stupid but it's true. That part of the human body is pretty lazy, so if you don't force it to work properly, all the hard years of training can slip in very little time. It's just like going to the gym, if you don't work 'em, they fall back to sleep again.

 

I'm just saying it's a shame because with proper training she could sing till she was 60 or a bit more, it depends, not more than that but I don't think it'll be her case, nor would she want to....who knows.

 

It's like if you want to be a jazz dancer, study the ballet, the classic stuff before 'cause it'll give you a technique to do EVERYTHING. Same thing with an instrument and the voice is an instrument.

 

"I'm going to bite your face" is absolutely right, I mean, she does go for a nasal/jazzy feel to it and I love everything she brings to the a song. I just truly love her and bottom line is we all want her to be in top shape, that is if she wants to keep her carreer afloat, which looks that way, at least nowadays. But she must never do a show like this again, at her age, not that she's old but like I said, can't do that to the voice.

 

Love you guys, thanks.

 

Gonzalo.-

Edited May 3, 2006 at 03:55 PM by ginossi

[Bellamy]

Why Barbra Streisand, Aretha Franklin, Patti Lebelle and many other pop singers still can sing very good when they are old? Do you mean they all train and use opera way singing?

[ginossi]

Dear Bellamy,

 

Good examples, let's see if I can make my point. You mentioned people like Barbra, Aretha and Patti...Ok, again, like Celine, these are extremely talented people and by saying this, I'm not sucking up but it's true, when it comes to singing voices, some people are right down lucky, I mean, they're just gifted.

 

Having said this, I don't think Barbra can sing the way she used to, in fact, she doesn't sing anymore. I know for sure that Patti has a wonderfull technique. She's in perfect control of her breathing and diaphragm which is THE KEY to singing...if you have a perfect control over your breathing and diaphragm, you're half way there. Once you achieve this, there's the issue of HOW and WHERE to place your voice within the face, how to work the chest voice, middle voice and head voice. It's all very nice in theory but incredibly hard when it comes to actually doing it.

 

There's no way I could ever tell you if she got opera training, I would say no because her voice is very pop, BUT she does have a very strong built-in support system going on. By support system, I mean the diaphragm, she can control that baby right down to the last note.

 

Celine's got excelent pipes but does not have a solid technique, I'm sorry.

 

As for Aretha, again, her voice is not what it used to be, I think they're pretty much retired. I don't think she sings anymore.

 

A great example of what ruining a voice is all about is Whitney Houston. That woman had a GIFTED voice but 0 technique, she sang from the throat and not the diaphragm, nowadays, the woman starts sweating like a pig every time she has to hit a decent note. Not having a good technique and still trying to hit high notes can cause stuff like throat tumors, I've seen it happen. Remember Julie Andrews???, from The Sound Of Music???. Ok, the doctors who operated her supposedly made a mistake in the operating table and ruined her voice then she ended up suing their asses but the point still remains. She got to the point of needing an operation to remove throat tumors due to inproper use of her voice.

 

And another thing, women like Aretha or Patti or even Celine, remember that sometimes they cheat, I mean they use falsetto which is an extremely easy way to hit high notes without using your real voice. But for you to truly understand what falsetto is, you should hear an example, this I cannot explain in words. I can try but I don't want to bore you.

 

It's like, if a man wants to yell "yoohoo" in a very acute voice. If you say that, you sort of sound like a woman, right?. Those are called fake notes, falsetto. Women have those ones too BUT, and here's the catch, since women's voice are considered "fake" from the technical point of view because they talk and sing with "these" by nature, only someone who knows a lot about singing technique and a keen ear can tell when a woman's actually hitting a high note with their real voice or just faking it.

 

The Bee Gees are the perfect example. Those guys used falsetto. Fake notes. In Au Coeur Du Stade, Celine sings "Staying Alive" and she has the Bee Gees thing going on in her voice, well, women can do "that" as well but with higher notes and there's when I say, it's hard to tell the difference between talent and faking it.

Like in the first Divas Live. At the very end, when Celine's hitting all those high notes along with Aretha. I think Aretha was cheating it, to people it may sound great but for me, in my humble opinion, was cheating. Celine, I couldn't say. Like I said, it's hard to tell.

 

A lot of male artists do this, a lot of female artists do this....it's just filled to the brim SO never go by what you hear on a record, you can only judge an artist by what they do live and even then, it might be hard.

 

So sorry guys, don't want to decepoint anyone, I'm not saying Celine does this but it's hard to tell. You have to know a lot and have an extremely keen ear to tell the difference, don't look at me, I'm not sure if I can but I do know it's been done and some artists get away with it.

 

Again, I love Celine, I'm a huge fan and always will be but since I'm an opera singer, I can't help to analize artist's voices whenever I hear one. Some people get shocked, some people get mad at me and don't want to believe it, in fact, you don't have to, NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE. Someone in this forum got mad at me when I said that Mariah Carey's voice was as fake as Madonna's british accent. So, don't want to get in trouble, I cherish this forum and all the people in here enough to know I don't wanna get into useless fights.

 

Love,

Gonzalo.-

Edited May 3, 2006 at 06:32 PM by ginossi

[karatedude317]

If you think that Celine's voice is going down the tubes, take a listen to the recent bootleg from Celine's show. You will hear in some songs she sings with the nasal voice, and in others her voice sounds amazing take "I Surrender" for example. I think she does the nasal thing on purpose, maybe to save her voice for the better songs like "I Surrender" and "Power of Love." Also take a listen to Celine singing with Elton John, you'll hear that her voice sounds the way that it used to, and she is singing LIVE. I do agree that her voice doesn't sound great at times. I remember when she sang HYEBIL on the diva show in 2003 she sounded horrible. When she sang it again on Live with Regis and Kelly she sounded horrible. I was really afraid then that the show had taken it's toll on her voice and that she was done. Then I heard her sing DWMF on the Grammy concert and was relieved that she still had that great voice. On the OH album I was concerned also because of how different she sounded. Then Miracle came out and was relieved that she sounded as great she she did before.

 

I'm not saying that her voice hasn't changed, but I am saying that she has the ability to sing as great as she did years ago, but at times chooses not to, which may be a smart thing since she doesn't want to strain her voice, especially with another year of Vegas left. I don't think her voice has changed tremendously, or that she can't sing as well as she used to. Again listen to the Vegas bootleg. She sounds great on "I Surrender", "TPOL", "At Last" etc. In fact I think she sings some songs better now than she did before. If you listen to "Seduces Me" and "BYLM" you'll hear the nasal voice. It's not that it's the only way that she can sing or how she sounds now, I think she does it on purpose. I'm not as concerned about her voice now as I was before. LYHD is a great song, she sounds great in it, different yes, but at the end, she still proves she's got it when she hits that high note.

 

Time will tell what happens with her voice as she ages. BTW, whatever happened to the new album that she was supposed to release? We haven't heard a thing about it.

[faris]

Hi

Why Celine cant take anymore the high note

We must admeet that the real voice of celine has changed

i comparded between the last live of the L'amour existe encore Hommage à Michel Jasmin and the best live of this song some years ago

 

What do you think

The michel jasmin one is very emotionnal but celine has difficulty to take the high note .I had the same feeling on the last live of J'aurai voulu etre un artiste..

[CSCfan]

Not again about her voice....

 

Ok, her voice isn't like it used to be: so what..

[Ted]

Her voice is just fine! I agree another thread about her voice.

Ted

[sweden]

Hello, I mean her voice is not as 100 % because she just has the neck influence of something ...

Her voice is still very good.

Im looking forward the new album and, I promise that it will be some high notes on that new cd.

=)

[RRphantom]

I'm sure she trains her voice nowadays, otherwise she wouldn't be able to do the Vegas show. Doing the Vegas show is and I'm sorry, the craziest thing she's done. It's terrible for the voice to do a show like that several nights a week. She has a lot of money, she shouldn't have done it.

 

Someone mentioned Andrea Boccelli in this thread, saying he was older and his voice was top-notch, whoever it was, was onto something. I'm afraid pop singers don't have the same training than opera singers. I mean, the bases are similar but no the same, if you don't believe me, listen to Pavarotti, he's over 60 and sings amazing, of course he's retiring but Celine's thirty-something or almost forty.

To all people out there who want to sing, I suggest to train themselves the way opera singers do, then sing whatever you want. Remember that Celine took singing lessons from her mother and not a qualified vocal coach. Later on in her carreer she began to take singing lessons with professional vocal coaches but she took the lessons WHILE STILL SINGING, that is a HUGE NO NO. She should have taken a time off back then and come back after that. But that doesn't only happen to Celine, it happens to most pop singers, none of them have a good solid technique. Then there are singers like Celine who, technique aside, are extremely talent so they rely on that talent but it doesn't last forever, remember these are muscles which are extremely fragil. The weather in Vegas has nothing to do with it, it's the fact that she's getting older, the fact that she's stressing her voice a lot by doing the show several times a week, and the fact that she never had a good solid technique or MOST IMPORTANTLY, she never had the time to actually stop and take the time to develop a good technique. Singers know all the tricks and when I listen to Celine I can tell when she's singing properly, using technique and when she sings from her throat which ultimately kills the voice.

When you're singing, especially when you're hitting high notes, that is the moment where you have to put your technique to the test, otherwise the voice might break and despite the embarrassement, it damages the voice, not right away but it will eventually.

When Celine has to hit the high notes, she doesn't always use technique, she screams the note and I can assure you guys, there lies the issue. She does half and half, half tehcnique, half screaming. You can get away with that when you're young and at Celine's age, I would advice her to drop the silly show and really start taking care of her voice, that is if she wants to keep it in shape but that's entirely up to her, wether to keep on training or just sit back, relax and enjoy life.

 

Thanks, sorry if it was too long.

 

Gonzalo.-

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I totally agree with you,ginossi

In Celine Multimedia section,we can download the file and see how Celine did the warm up before recording.(an one-hour-long interview LTAL)

→we can find that Celine trained herself the way similar to opera singers did, then sing whatever she wanted.And it's was perfect.

 

It's obvious that her voice is not as crystal-clear as before when she came back afer 2 year break .Sometimes Celine's voice is hoarse when she try to stretch out higher note.

 

Take some of her albums for example, A L'Olympia,Live A Paris (crystal-clear) vs. A New Day... Live In Las Vegas (hoarse sometimes) Aren't they a good contrast?????

Two bad things that I have to mention are 1.It's weird for Celine perform songs such as I'm Alive,I Drove All Night in A New Day... show→they lose their own tastes when she perform them(It's hard for me to express ,sorry) 2.Celine exerts more strength than before (1993-1999) whenever she does studio recording or performs live.It's the similar situation when she was young (albums before she joined Sony)

 

 

 

Why Barbra Streisand, Aretha Franklin, Patti Lebelle and many other pop singers still can sing very good when they are old? Do you mean they all train and use opera way singing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

They never have The Voice that Celine had

Training the way opera singers do can solve all problems

[SimplyCeline]

Celine always had an amazing voice. When she was younger, her voice was spectacular, yet she went and had vocal coaching and her voice got even better. All through the nineties she worked at her voice each day and I believe we all saw and heard how fabulous she was?!

 

Well, since she had Rene-charles, she hasn’t devoted the same amount of time to her vocal training because she used it on her son. And rightly so. That is her child - the most important thing to Celine.

 

Therefore, her voice has got a little rough at the edges. But it is STILL a spectacular instrument. I went to see her in Vegas in Nov 04 and she was a thrill to see, and what vocals she produced! Celine's voice is still there, it has not deteriorated in a permanent sense. It is merely less polished. And i believe that once A New Day comes to an end and she has a little more time, she will be able to focus more time on her voice and you shall hear the Stellar Celine Dion once again.

 

And you can just thank your lucky stars that Celine's voice has not deteriorated as awfully as Mariah's and Whitney's! Celine cares for her voice greatly, and do you honestly believe that she would continue to sing if her voice were as bad as some here are painting it? Not even that, do you think people would flock from all over the world to see her if she had such a crumbling voice?

[LVCeline]

I just listened to the Think Twice performance she did back in the day (I don't remember what show, but it was posted recently with BATB), and it sounded horrendous, and I'd take any performance she's done lately over that. It was warbly and whiney. Her tone has definitely lowered a lot. I think it all depends on the day and the circumstance. She sounded great for the L'ecole show, but not so great for the 500 Choriste performance of LBDB. Just recently the ATW performance at the 500th show was flawless, while the LAEE performance wasn't so hot. Overall though the more she rests her voice the better it sounds.

[Krys]

thank you for your explanation Gonzalo

[Lizzy]

Dear Bellamy,

 

Good examples, let's see if I can make my point. You mentioned people like Barbra, Aretha and Patti...Ok, again, like Celine, these are extremely talented people and by saying this, I'm not sucking up but it's true, when it comes to singing voices, some people are right down lucky, I mean, they're just gifted.

 

Having said this, I don't think Barbra can sing the way she used to, in fact, she doesn't sing anymore. I know for sure that Patti has a wonderfull technique. She's in perfect control of her breathing and diaphragm which is THE KEY to singing...if you have a perfect control over your breathing and diaphragm, you're half way there. Once you achieve this, there's the issue of HOW and WHERE to place your voice within the face, how to work the chest voice, middle voice and head voice. It's all very nice in theory but incredibly hard when it comes to actually doing it.

 

There's no way I could ever tell you if she got opera training, I would say no because her voice is very pop, BUT she does have a very strong built-in support system going on. By support system, I mean the diaphragm, she can control that baby right down to the last note.

 

Celine's got excelent pipes but does not have a solid technique, I'm sorry.

 

As for Aretha, again, her voice is not what it used to be, I think they're pretty much retired. I don't think she sings anymore.

 

A great example of what ruining a voice is all about is Whitney Houston. That woman had a GIFTED voice but 0 technique, she sang from the throat and not the diaphragm, nowadays, the woman starts sweating like a pig every time she has to hit a decent note. Not having a good technique and still trying to hit high notes can cause stuff like throat tumors, I've seen it happen. Remember Julie Andrews???, from The Sound Of Music???. Ok, the doctors who operated her supposedly made a mistake in the operating table and ruined her voice then she ended up suing their asses but the point still remains. She got to the point of needing an operation to remove throat tumors due to inproper use of her voice.

 

And another thing, women like Aretha or Patti or even Celine, remember that sometimes they cheat, I mean they use falsetto which is an extremely easy way to hit high notes without using your real voice. But for you to truly understand what falsetto is, you should hear an example, this I cannot explain in words. I can try but I don't want to bore you.

 

It's like, if a man wants to yell "yoohoo" in a very acute voice. If you say that, you sort of sound like a woman, right?. Those are called fake notes, falsetto. Women have those ones too BUT, and here's the catch, since women's voice are considered "fake" from the technical point of view because they talk and sing with "these" by nature, only someone who knows a lot about singing technique and a keen ear can tell when a woman's actually hitting a high note with their real voice or just faking it.

 

The Bee Gees are the perfect example. Those guys used falsetto. Fake notes. In Au Coeur Du Stade, Celine sings "Staying Alive" and she has the Bee Gees thing going on in her voice, well, women can do "that" as well but with higher notes and there's when I say, it's hard to tell the difference between talent and faking it.

Like in the first Divas Live. At the very end, when Celine's hitting all those high notes along with Aretha. I think Aretha was cheating it, to people it may sound great but for me, in my humble opinion, was cheating. Celine, I couldn't say. Like I said, it's hard to tell.

 

A lot of male artists do this, a lot of female artists do this....it's just filled to the brim SO never go by what you hear on a record, you can only judge an artist by what they do live and even then, it might be hard.

 

So sorry guys, don't want to decepoint anyone, I'm not saying Celine does this but it's hard to tell. You have to know a lot and have an extremely keen ear to tell the difference, don't look at me, I'm not sure if I can but I do know it's been done and some artists get away with it.

 

Again, I love Celine, I'm a huge fan and always will be but since I'm an opera singer, I can't help to analize artist's voices whenever I hear one. Some people get shocked, some people get mad at me and don't want to believe it, in fact, you don't have to, NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE. Someone in this forum got mad at me when I said that Mariah Carey's voice was as fake as Madonna's british accent. So, don't want to get in trouble, I cherish this forum and all the people in here enough to know I don't wanna get into useless fights.

 

Love,

Gonzalo.-

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I also want to thank you Gonzalo.

I was looking for such things you explained here so well. I agree with you that Céline is unique because she puts so much human quality in her voice and that`s why she is touching so many people.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

Lizzy

[Célinefull]

Someone in this forum got mad at me when I said that Mariah Carey's voice was as fake as Madonna's british accent.

 

lol, that is kind of hilarious..

[celine_sender]

her voice is different than before but i still love it

[davidh]

i have noticed her voice seems alot more nasally at times, having watched an old lcip of celine singing its all coming back to me' on rosie o donnel, her voice sounded so pure and commanding back then. I hope once the new day show ends, she can rest her chords.

[Céline's Blues]

i have noticed her voice seems alot more nasally at times, having watched an old lcip of celine singing its all coming back to me' on rosie o donnel, her voice sounded so pure and commanding back then. I hope once the new day show ends, she can rest her chords.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Her voice went out of tune several times if you listen closely.

 

On the other hand I do not know how one can name "Live A Paris" as one of Céline's vocal standards cuzz she was very sick during these three or something nights. And you heard it very well. Regarde-moi and Calling You are both stellar examples where she tried to pull off her D'eux vocals but failed cuzz there wasn't much power in her voice left. She strained big big big time.

[HelenCeline27]

i will always love celine know matter what happens to celines voice good or bad

[RRphantom]

i will always love celine know matter what happens to celines voice good or bad

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes,but I hope her voice will be crystal-clear again and then she will sing "higher"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzPl-Q8beTE...rch=vh1%20divas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyc-ImEpTto...rch=vh1%20divas

[celinerific]

Actually... Celine's voice isn't wearing down... she can sing like she used to on a daily basis if she wanted to. She sounds great. No wearing down happening. Not that I notice. Sure, it sounds different, but it's still so full of power. Scary power really LOL. Sometimes when she sings one song too much, she just can't put as much effort into it as if she sung it for the first 5 times... no honey. She's bored lol. But she tries. I think she sounds great. So Shhhhhh, calm down. Maybe she should consider moving out of the states or something. Somewhere with a more suitable climate for her. The climate there could be one of the reasons why her voice is changing, IF she moved back into Quebec or Ontario (Canada), maybe you'll notice the difference. Honestly, climate is important to health very much so, and her voice is part of her health.

[chenping]

Soooo mazing!!!!!!

Love her!