Giving advice to friends

[1Celine12]

I have a friend named Michael and he is totally blind and is always in need of people giving hin advice. I always feel it's my duty to be the one to give him advice on things from showering to not being so annoying. I have probably given Michael advice on more than 20 things he needs help on. I am also trying to tell the truth with him and make him realize that what he's done wrong is not appropreiate to me. I have yelled at him and told him off. Yesterday the 6th of March, I yelled at him and told him that if he feels that I am being to harsh he can hang up the phone and go and think about what he's done and the advice I have given. I ask him everytime if he has used the advice I have given him, and he says yes, but I really don't think he has.

 

When do you guys feel it's necessary to give advice to friends that need it all the time? I feel it's necessary to give advice to a friend(s) when I know they have done things wrong and I want to help them correct them.

 

What does this mean? Am I being a bad friend? Should we stop being friends for good just because I gave him advice?

Edited March 7, 2006 by 1Celine12

[mazceline]

I think you can give too much advice, where it looks like your trying to change that person to be more like yourself, end of the day you got friends because you liked him.

 

Let him make his own mistakes that will make him learn

 

I think your a good friend because you care that he makes mistakes

[Banedone]

It's good to give advices but not too many.

Michael won't be able to take a decision of its own anymore if he's fallowing everytime the advices he gets from his friends. Sometimes you need to let him decide what to do.

I don't know exactly what is the issue between you and Michael but you are not a bad adviser or friend because sometimes he thinks your advices are not good. What things are good for some are bad for others and so on. And if he doesn't apreciate a good piece of advice then I would say that Michael doesn't deserve a friend like you.

Even if he's blind this still means that he must show respect for you as a friends first of all and secondly for being his advisor. Or maybe should I say his light... in that dark world of his.

And give him some pieces of advices only when's asking for some. Even blind people have their proud.

If he's fallowing them or not that's only his business (you shouldn't get involved too much). Afterall, you're advising him not telling him what to do. He's still the owner of his own life and decisions.

[1Celine12]

Arkenstone, I like giving advice and Michael likes taking my advice. He also says that he needs advice, because he feels out of place in his family for being blind. Why doesn't Michael deserve a friend like me just because I give him advice? I am not trying to change and mold him into being like other people. He just needs a little more positive reinforcement, that's all he needs. I'm not gonna drop him as a friend just because I give advice every now and then.

 

I know I wanted opinions and I value them very much, but sometimes I have to decide for myself. Keep the opinions coming.

Edited March 7, 2006 by 1Celine12

[VanMerlin]

Ah, the age old question of advice; when to give it and when not to.

 

It's simple. DON'T GIVE ADVICE UNLESS YOU ARE DIRECTLY ASKED!!! And if you give it, immediately release from it. Advice is like a gift...you don't give and then get mad if the person never uses it. You give it in the hopes it will help and then surrender to what they feel about it.

 

90% of the time, people don't want advice, even if they throw out the odd, "Jeez, I don't know what do to. What should I do?" . They don't want anyone telling them what they should do, they're just talking to themselves and trying to sort it out. They want nothing more than someone to listen, to understand, and to show that they have listened. Instead of giving advice, just say, "So, what you're saying is that you feel this way, and I understand."

 

Get him to find his own advice. Say "Okay, so if this is the situation, what do you feel like doing? What do you want to do? What do you think they are feeling about this situation (his family if that is the problem)? What do you think you can do about it (get him to think up a few solutions) and then what do you think will happen if you do one of those? What outcome do you want and how do you think you can get there?" Just listen and try to direct him toward finding his own solution. Don't ever say, "Well, do this.'

 

Sorry to say it, but you not only have no right to give advice unless serioulsy and honestly asked for it, but you have no right to get angry when your advice is not taken, whether it was asked for or not. It is not up to you whether this person does what you say or not, and just because you think your advice is good, that doesn't mean your friend has any obligation to follow it. Situations change, feelings change and opinions change and you're not being a good friend if you get angry and say "appreciate me for my advice!" He doesn't have to appreciate you, and if that's why you're giving the advice, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons in the first place. You must try to help for Michael's sake and accept his final decision. I have to ask, what makes you think your advice is always the right thing and that he must take or he is wrong? His problems aren't about you, his situations aren't about you, and when you give him advice, that is not about you. Don't get angry at him, whatever you do.

 

Now, he may be the type of friend who always calls up, whining about a certain problem and he may drain you a little because of it. In that case, you can still try to talk him through the situation on his own, or you have to decide if he is too draining on you and you need to separate from him. But don't continue to be his friend only because you feel good giving advice and getting the attention from him for doing it. That is not a win-win situation and is not a nurturing friendship.

 

I don't know what the particulars are between the two of you, but in any case, what you're doing is not the way to go. The best friend does not TALK. The best friend you'll ever have LISTENS to you. So look, don't tell him what to do. Get him to figure out what he wants to do by asking him questions and guiding him with a soft hand. Make him think for himself and you'll be doing the greatest service to him than any other.

[Banedone]

VanMerlin somewhere you're on the same track with me.

I agree with that part where advices are given only when are required or really needed.

Good point of view however

[VanMerlin]

VanMerlin somewhere you're on the same track with me.

I agree with that part where advices are given only when are required or really needed.

Good point of view however

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Absolutely, and I think it's also important to understand the difference between advice and telling someone what to do. Advice is a gentle thing in the form of, "Well, perhaps you could do this or this, if you feel comfortable with it and think that could help you. From what I see and from what I know of you, doing 'this' might help you. How does that sound?"

 

Advice is not..."Well, if that's what's happening then do this. This is the thing to do" while giving the impression that it's the 'right' thing or even the 'only' thing to do.

 

Advice is maleable, gentle, and forgiving.

[Banedone]

VanMerlin somewhere you're on the same track with me.

I agree with that part where advices are given only when are required or really needed.

Good point of view however

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Absolutely, and I think it's also important to understand the difference between advice and telling someone what to do. Advice is a gentle thing in the form of, "Well, perhaps you could do this or this, if you feel comfortable with it and think that could help you. From what I see and from what I know of you, doing 'this' might help you. How does that sound?"

 

Advice is not..."Well, if that's what's happening then do this. This is the thing to do" while giving the impression that it's the 'right' thing or even the 'only' thing to do.

 

Advice is maleable, gentle, and forgiving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An advice sounds usualy like an alternative and not like something mandatory or the last thing you must or can do.

 

A good piece of advice's results can be seen shortly after it was given. However this is a responsability that not everybody can take.

[gizapup]

I'm a bit older than most of my friends, and I give them advice all the time, and whether they decide to act accordingly is totally up to them. I've never had a problem with it.

[Mozinha]

My name (Monica) means advisor in some language. It couldn't have fitter me better. People come to me for advice ALL THE TIME.

I worry all the time for the people I love and whenever they come for advice I give them advice. It's not like I tell them what to do. No way. I hate when people tell me what to do. They ask me my opinion, they ask what I would do and I always tell them: this is just me and it's up to you to decide.

[1Celine12]

VanMerlin and Arkenstone I have decided that if I have to give advice on the same subject over and over again, I will dump Michael as a friend. I told him today that I don't want to have to dwell on this advice giving thing all the time because I will dump you as a friend. And he got the point.

[Bellamy]

I only know I hate others give me advices, especially on the same subject over and over again.

[1Celine12]

VanMerlin, you actually think I should seperate from him? I have taken that into consideration and am actually thinking about doing this. What's the best way to do it without hurting his feelings? I don't wanna say, "Michael I hate your guts, get out of my life for good." How should I approach him about this?

 

VanMerlin and Arkenstone I actually agree with the both of you on every point of advice giving. I shouldn't give advice because I feel I need to, I should give advice because Michael asks for it. Any opinions about how to gently break our friendship up and how I can stop calling him everyday would really help. Bring on the opinions.

Edited March 8, 2006 by 1Celine12

[Krys]

hmm...thats a real hard one. trying to break up gently.

 

i was in this situation before. i sort of let that friend of mine go little by little. i stoppped calling so often, i stoppped giving advices (slowly though), i stopped helping her with her homework and day by day we drifted apart. im no longer with that "friend" anymore.

 

for the phone call thing, i think you should act like you've run out of advices if you are REALLY desperate. thats what i would do.

[mazceline]

Its obvious that you dont like the way he is and keep trying to change him maybe it would be for the best to get rid..

[1Celine12]

What would I say to Michael to let him know our friendship is over so I don't make him mad? I don't like making him mad. I would never say," Michael I hate your guts. Get out of my life for good." I need help.

[VanMerlin]

I didn't recommend that you break it off...only if you feel that is the best thing to do. And be sure that it is, because you don't want to suddenly miss him and phone him up again and say, "hey man, I changed my mind, everything's cool." He won't trust you much if you do that.

 

But, first really think about two things, 1Celine12.

 

1. What makes you call him everyday? Why do you pick up the phone and dial his number everyday? Go deep. Find the true answer to this question. Do you do it because you genuinely like him? Do you do it because you simply feel good when giving someone advice and you know he's available? Do you do it because you like the attention? Do you do it not because you truly enjoy his friendship, but because you feel obligated, sorry for him, pity him, or think you're the only one he's got? Do you want to change him? What is it that draws you to his friendship? What do you get out of it or what have you gotten out of it? You may end up ending it and then finding out that what you got out of it was something you want again and you'll try to go back. Be absolutely sure of each decision you make.

 

2. How do you actually feel about him? Do you really hate his guts? Do you feel drained by him? Is it a relationship that is more difficult to sustain than easy?

 

But whatever you do, if you decide to break it off before you answer these questions for yourself, or if you don't want to answer them, than be completely honest and GENTLE with Michael. Don't blame him and put the problems on his shoulders, because nothing is his fault. You two are simply incompatible.

 

Start your sentences with,"I" and use a lot of "me". As in, "I feel like this...I don't think this is working for me...I don't believe that I can stay like this because I feel unappreciated and I get off the phone every time feeling angry and I don't like it. So I have to end this." In fact, try not to say the word "you" at all, unless in the form of, "when you do this, it makes me feel/think/believe...".

 

And NEVER say, "you make me" followed by whatever...angry, annoyed, feel unappreciated etc. Put those three words right out of your vocabulary. They only put people on the defensive and they shut right down, and you then get...nowhere!

 

Just tell him your side and your perceptions of the relationship and leave it at that. Don't give him excuses or lies or 'act' like something else is going on. He won't benefit from that and you'll feel badly afterward. And don't think that by doing this that you're blaming yourself and not telling him how much he annoys you and so forth. I know you'd probably love to tell him off and tell him everything he's done wrong to screw up the friendship and that if you do it this way you're letting him off the hook for being such an idiot and you might feel he needs to know all the errors of his ways at this point, but in the end, neither of you did anything wrong and it's no ones fault, and this is a time to be as mature as possible. You've got someone's heart and self-esteem on the table here. Remember that.

 

Don't blame him. Don't say, "Well, you are a leech and all you ever do is ask for advice and I can't stand you anymore because you never appreciate me and even when I try to help, you don't do anything about it." There are so many different personaliy factors going on here that I could write a book about it, but to get to the point...you simply aren't suited to be friends. You have needs that don't mesh, but it's nothing that is wrong with him and nothing that is wrong with you. So blame is an empty and wasteful thing.

 

Keep in mind, with every word you say, that you want to leave with a clear conscience, and that you want the BOTH of you to get off of the phone feeling respected, feeling heard, and feeling that no one is hurt. Make it your intention to have a win-win situation before you even get on the phone, and hold on to your temper!! Don't let yourself lose control and say things that, although you may think are true, would do nothing but hurt you and him. Don't say anything that you'd want to say 'sorry' for later.

 

Good luck to you. And good luck to Michael. If you keep his well-being in mind as much as your own, you'll do just fine.

[1Celine12]

Here is what I am gonna say to him: "I feel that we just don't have a relationship. I feel that we aren't compatible in any way what so ever. I feel that it's time to end our friendship and for me to move on and make friends that actually appreciate me for who I am not for what I am. I aam not an advisor and I don't intend to be one for the rest of my life."

 

VanMerlin, I have to admit something to you right now: It is Michael's fault for making me call him everyday.

 

Here's what happened in a nutshell: I got home from summer camp in 2001 and the next day I got a call from Michael @ 7am and I was wondering why he was calling me that early and he said" my friend Amanda is busy, my friend Johnathan is busy, so I thought since you weren't doing anything..." This went on for 6 months and his dad got upset at him for making such high phone bills. One was $300, and the other one was $500. His dad was furious with him. He made him do chores to pay off the bills. And he grounded him for just a week to make him undderstand this was wrong. I think he should have been grounded for at least 3 months.

 

That's how the whole calling him everyday thing started. I know I shouldn't blame him, but I do. Also I feel angry every time I get off the phone with him. That's the main reason I am breaking it off with him. What do you think about my way of breaking it off? Did I say things correctly or do I need time to figure it out?

[VanMerlin]

First, I'd like to say that you could easily have said, "Look man, I know you can't call anymore but I'm not going to call you every day." You made yourself pick up the phone, not him. You ALWAYS have the option of saying no, okay? So, he's not to blame for you feeling obliged. He's just a needy person, but you don't have to fall in line with that.

 

Now, with what you're going to say, I'd only change one thing. Everything else you wrote sounds great.

 

Change the sentence to, "...make friends that I feel appreciate me for who I am, not what I am, because in this relationship I feel like nothing more than an advisor."

 

Saying the word "actually" gives the feel that he doesn't appreciate you and he may very well appreciate you a great deal. Saying that you don't get the impression you're appreciated indicates that you're simply not getting the right stuff from this relationship and it doesn't suit your ways, but it makes no judgement on him. Other than that, you did a great job.

 

Now if it should arise that he argues and says, 'but I do appreciate you", just say, "Well look, you don't show it in the way I need, so I just can't continue this anymore. Okay? No hard feelings. I wish you happiness. Bye." If it gets at all heated, just say that this is the way you feel and you have to leave it at that. Say goodbye and wish him well. Tell him you're sure he has other friends he can turn to and that he should go to them from now on.

 

I wish you luck.

[1Celine12]

People have told me that if I have to hang up the phone in the middle of a conversation that I feel the person isn't getting the comcept. What do you think of that? Should I just say bye and hang the phone up and not let him have the chance to say how he feels, or should I let him speak his mind?

 

I am gonna start off with a question that leads up to the end of our friendship: Do you think we should break up? And then I will say what I need to say and be done with it./ If he says no we shouldn't break up as friends, I am just gonna say what I have prepared.

 

I will tell you how it goes and if there were any arguments or heated discussions.

[VanMerlin]

Oh, absolutely let him have his say. It's his right, since you are calling to have your say and you need to make sure that you both leave knowing that you said everything. There's nothing worse than that "oh, I should have said that!" feeling. Let him speak. But when doing that, don't interrupt, don't disagree with what he's feeling. Just sort of say, "yeah, I understand that, but I still feel this way."

 

The question idea is good. It will give you an indication of what he's feeling. You never know, it might be mutual.

[1Celine12]

I really hope that we can resolve this in 1 call. I really don't wanna break up if I don't have to. This is just an idea of how to break up with him if the time arises. He needs to know that he doesn't have to be needy as you say. If he keeps thinking that he has to be needy, then I will break the friendship off with what I prepared as my speech.

[Lia]

Arkenstone, I like giving advice and Michael likes taking my advice.  He also says that he needs advice, because he feels out of place in his family for being blind.  Why doesn't Michael deserve a friend like me just because I give him advice?  I am not trying to change and mold him into being like other people.  He just needs a little more positive reinforcement, that's all he needs.  I'm not gonna drop him as a friend just because I give advice every now and then.

 

I know I wanted opinions and I value them very much, but sometimes I have to decide for myself.  Keep the opinions coming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

you need to save some for yourself too... In the long run if you keep giving an advice and when that person just walk out in your life, you will feel so empty cause no one will be there for you to give some advice... to give some advice is good, but like i said you need to save that advice too for yourself... for your own good to hold on to some strength when you need it when you're alone....

Edited March 8, 2006 by Lia

[1Celine12]

Like I said, I am going to call him tomorrow and try and resolve this whole thing. VanMerlin made a good point. He thinks Michael is being needy and I think he is also. If I have to break up the friendship, I have a speech written of what I am gonna say. If I start to give advice again while on the phone I am just gonna say that I think we need to move on and then say what I have written. And then I will ask Michael what he thinks and I will r-e-s-p-e-c-t what he has to say and wish him good luck in whatever he does and will hang up knowing that I have made the right decision. He needs to know that I am doing this for his own good. He also needs to know that I need my space in life. I feel that he is extra "weight" that I need to have lifted off of my shoulders. I also think he needs to know that he has other friends he can "vent" to about things.

 

I forgot to mentuion: Michael likes to bring EVERY single problem to me thinking that I will fix things and make things right again. I am not Mr. fix-it either and Michael will know that as well. You guys have been a tremendous help to me and I will let you know how this situation works out and if Michael and I are no longer friends.

 

Lia, I really do not want Michael out of my life, but if that happens oh well. He needs to know all of the points that I have talked about and realize that I am making his life better by doing this. He needs to not have me as a friend just to give advice. He needs to have me as a friend so I can "vent" my problems to him as well. He's not the only one with issues here. I have wants I have needs. Sometimes he doesn't listen to my wants and needs. Most of the time he thinks of himself and doesn't care about others problems.

 

End of that. Talk to you guys tomorrow more about this.

Edited March 8, 2006 by 1Celine12

[Lia]

^ that is the sad part sometimes... when they abuse your sincerity, of course you dont expect in return, but it soppuse to be give and takes... we all have *hiccups* problems or need that at the same time they need to understands that we need to share our feeling too, to listen in our need once in a blue moon... so that its more thrilling to have a real close friend.. that's my point of views, when it comes on giving some advice... right?

 

Merci beacoup!... see I am learning fast, in my French languages

Edited March 8, 2006 by Lia

[1Celine12]

De rien. I think Michael isn't getting the messagr. He needs to learn what has to be done. Maybe you should read all of my posts in here so you have a better idea of what's going on with Michael. Merci beaucoup mes amie.

[Lia]

dont just drop all the bad news to him... just give your self a room to back off, then if he all of the sadden ask a question.. why you are avoiding him, then tell your side of your story how you feel... it a lot easier that way than just dump your frienship...

 

it will hard on you to move on, becauae you will always carry the guilt...

 

so try my advice... talking about advice yeh! :0

 

now you need to translate the two french words you mention I kinda lost in the clouds on that word

Edited March 8, 2006 by Lia

[1Celine12]

mes=my amie=friend in femanine sense. Do you understand what I mean and what I just said?

 

I will do whatever it takes to dump the friendship. I don't wanna dump him, but I feel I need to. He just doesn't comprehend things like I do. He and I are very different. We have very different personallities. I don't want someone with a different personality that mine. I will tell you how it oges tomorrow.

 

Why would I feel guilt about dumping him as a friend? If he makes an ultimatum about what kind of froend he is losing, I will simply tell him that I just need to move on. VanMerlin said not to feel sorry for myself about this. He also said that to have everything taken care of over the phone so I don't have to call him up anymore and tell him what I forgot to say before. That's all.

Edited March 8, 2006 by 1Celine12

[Lia]

Okey then I will all ears to listen...

 

 

I need to put that on my note pad...

 

merci!

[1Celine12]

De rien=you're welcome? I e-mailed nelemy about the next lesson and if de rien means you're welcome.

 

Just understand what I have said about Michael and that it will all be over with tomorrow at this time.