1253 replies to this topic

[Nmj]

Állex Sodi, on 21 November 2023 - 08:09 PM, said:

So, are you saying homophobia does not exist?

The fact the we can pin point the very few artists who managed to break that prejudice structure says it all. Both white man, it’s important to highlight! Both subject to several instances of violence before and after achieving commercial success.

It’s incredible how easy people dismiss structures of prejudice, like racism and homophobia, calling “drama” or whatever. As Billy said, this is not even about Celine.

Please re-read and point to me where I said that. Let’s be careful and not put words in anyone’s mouth. Homophobia can and does exist my opinion is just that’s NOT the reason Sony music gave Celine the song.  Two things can be true at once. You’re not gonna drag me into this nonsense game where someone assumes what I believe.

[Loup_garou]

smw, on 21 November 2023 - 07:03 PM, said:

His version is really good.

https://youtu.be/UfS...5_gXHy4g55lmk91

I bet that was very difficult… to feel like a song you were so proud of got handed off to a big name like Celine. And for the same producer to work on it. Ouch.

With that said, his version wasn't exactly going to change the music industry or anything.

Didn't the same thing happened to Céline with "Dreams to Dream" that was then recorded by Linda Ronstadt ... I don't recall Céline ever claimed that it was her song, just a footnote of the struggle to break into the Anglo market and the hesitation to go for Beauty & The Beast and how that Collaboration with Horner made MHWGO possible..... so without the shade towards the producers great things happened

At least we got to hear Porter's rendition not like Céline's that's probably hidden in a vault somewhere

Edited by Loup_garou, 21 November 2023 - 08:43 PM.

[DCCeline]

I would feel more sorry for him if his version wasnt released first and on a major motion picture soundtrack/in the movie.

[Loup_garou]

DCCeline, on 21 November 2023 - 08:58 PM, said:

I would feel more sorry for him if his version wasnt released first and on a major motion picture soundtrack/in the movie.

His name is even above Aretha Franklin on the cover for the soundtrack!!!

Fun fact: The First Wives Club Soundtrack also features Songs by both Diana King and Brownstone from THLAL fame and both were featured on LTAL as it was originally a Diana King's song... maybe because they had no beef with Ric Wake

[CelinesDIVO5]

Davey84, on 21 November 2023 - 02:10 PM, said:

Jeez the drama indeed!! That's the way the music industry works... you record songs, other people will record the same songs... it's not like LIOTW was the next MHWGO

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Meh. I don’t even think Billy’s version is even all that great.

[CelinesDIVO5]

Nmj, on 21 November 2023 - 07:28 PM, said:

Tell that to George Micheal or Elton John.

He didn’t get the song most likely because they wanted it on Celine’s album after FIY major success the year prior. The label probably liked the song and wanted it somewhere where they thought it had a chance to thrive. I’m sure at the time they weren’t thinking that MHWGO would steal the spotlight of the album as the ballad. But hey, it’s still on one of the most successful albums ever sold, I’m sure the songwriters are happy it’s where it ended up, and that they got royally compensated.

He recorded and released the song as a single. It was party of a major motion picture soundtrack. I don’t think his version is all that great, however. But it was originally his.

[celinesounds]

I’m sure Billy got his credits for his work and royalties

The problem if we read well, he didn’t want to be a demo singer, that’s  all

Edited by celinesounds, 22 November 2023 - 02:16 AM.

[Celine Fan 77]

mirage, on 21 November 2023 - 03:47 PM, said:

Are there more old shows we can expect being translated by you?

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Totally. Please, if you have a request let me know via PM 🙂

[ryba]

With the sales of LTAL he made more money with his song than he could ever make if he was to promote it by himself. No reason to complain. But obviously it’s always good to drop the name Celine Dion in order to show off with a certain connection to her…

Edited by ryba, 22 November 2023 - 05:14 AM.

[jpatdeleon09]

Patti LaBelle for ‘If You Asked Me To’, Billy Porter for ‘Love Is On The Way’.

But this doesn’t mean he hate Céline, right? Because that may be a problem. More drama.

[LukeD]

Porter took personally something that was not meant to be taken personally. Just because a singer covers a song you recorded, it does not make you a 'demo singer'.

[Nmj]

LukeD, on 22 November 2023 - 09:58 AM, said:

Porter took personally something that was not meant to be taken personally. Just because a singer covers a song you recorded, it does not make you a 'demo singer'.

I’m sure he’s faced adversities for being gay, no doubt…
I just think this wasn’t the case in this situation … however, me saying that here has someone calling me “Homophobic”. I really would like to understand how someone gets to that conclusion.

[LukeD]

The problem he has is that he never got to be as big as Celine which he attributes to protected characteristics. And he might be right about this. Therefore he experienced a sense of failure or prejudice, and when he saw one of the songs he recorded being passed to someone who he perceived as more privileged, he reacted. It was an emotional reaction, really. I do not think this is about him feeling that the song was HIS. It is about feeling scared that what he viewed as his achievement would be absolutely overshadowed by Celine's version. So, the meaning he attached to this is that 'privilege' was going to win again.

[LukeD]

Nmj, on 22 November 2023 - 10:10 AM, said:

I’m sure he’s faced adversities for being gay, no doubt…
I just think this wasn’t the case in this situation … however, me saying that here has someone calling me “Homophobic”. I really would like to understand how someone gets to that conclusion.

Yeah, I'm not sure where that came from either.

[CelinesDIVO5]

smw, on 21 November 2023 - 07:33 PM, said:

I agree with the second part of your statement.

As far as Elton John and George Michael and a few others, they were the exception. And George Michael was closeted for ages.

Elton was closeted from the industry for a long time as well.

[smw]

CelinesDIVO5, on 22 November 2023 - 10:26 AM, said:

Elton was closeted from the industry for a long time as well.

True!

[CelinesDIVO5]

LukeD, on 22 November 2023 - 10:10 AM, said:

The problem he has is that he never got to be as big as Celine which he attributes to protected characteristics. And he might be right about this. Therefore he experienced a sense of failure or prejudice, and when he saw one of the songs he recorded being passed to someone who he perceived as more privileged, he reacted. It was an emotional reaction, really. I do not think this is about him feeling that the song was HIS. It is about feeling scared that what he viewed as his achievement would be absolutely overshadowed by Celine's version. So, the meaning he attached to this is that 'privilege' was going to win again.

He also failed to see that Celine’s version ended up laying low as an album track with no commercial or even promotional single release. So, her version had no success over his. His was released as a single.

Now, his version of LIOTW peaked at only #81. That could be attributed to the fact that it was considered an R&B ballad. It could be that his record company didn’t promote it properly. It could have been internal industry homophobia that made his record company not promote it properly. It could have been that while “The First Wives Club” was a huge blockbuster, nobody was really paying attention to the soundtrack. Or it could have been that his version really just wasn’t that great and there was no great reaction to it. The latter is my own personal opinion.

His follow up single also didn’t break into the top 40. So, maybe it was simply his material.

That being said, all of his feelings of homophobia and racism are valid. And they exist still to this day in the industry. But he needs to come off of the excuse that because it was handed to Celine, his version didn’t get the chance to thrive. It had the chance to thrive. It just…didn’t.

Edited by CelinesDIVO5, 22 November 2023 - 10:37 AM.

[LukeD]

CelinesDIVO5, on 22 November 2023 - 10:36 AM, said:

He also failed to see that Celine's version ended up laying low as an album track with no commercial or even promotional single release. So, her version had no success over his. His was released as a single.

Now, his version of LIOTW peaked at only #81. That could be attributed to the fact that it was considered an R&B ballad. It could be that his record company didn't promote it properly. It could have been internal industry homophobia that made his record company not promote it properly. It could have been that while "The First Wives Club" was a huge blockbuster, nobody was really paying attention to the soundtrack. Or it could have been that his version really just wasn't that great and there was no great reaction to it. The latter is my own personal opinion.

His follow up single also didn't break into the top 40. So, maybe it was simply his material.

That being said, all of his feelings of homophobia and racism are valid. And they exist still to this day in the industry. But he needs to come off of the excuse that because it was handed to Celine, his version didn't get the chance to thrive. It had the chance to thrive. It just…didn't.

Yes, I hear this. To be honest, I listened to some live performances of the song and I found his high notes to be very strained. Of course all comments were positive but I personally did not like aspects of his singing. Celine sang this song during the LTAL tour and she sounded phenomenal, her resonance was unreal.

[celinesounds]

CelinesDIVO5, on 22 November 2023 - 10:36 AM, said:

He also failed to see that Celine’s version ended up laying low as an album track with no commercial or even promotional single release. So, her version had no success over his. His was released as a single.

Now, his version of LIOTW peaked at only #81. That could be attributed to the fact that it was considered an R&B ballad. It could be that his record company didn’t promote it properly. It could have been internal industry homophobia that made his record company not promote it properly. It could have been that while “The First Wives Club” was a huge blockbuster, nobody was really paying attention to the soundtrack. Or it could have been that his version really just wasn’t that great and there was no great reaction to it. The latter is my own personal opinion.

His follow up single also didn’t break into the top 40. So, maybe it was simply his material.

That being said, all of his feelings of homophobia and racism are valid. And they exist still to this day in the industry. But he needs to come off of the excuse that because it was handed to Celine, his version didn’t get the chance to thrive. It had the chance to thrive. It just…didn’t.

Even if was not a single,
The album sold more than 30 million copies
If he got his 50 cents per copy, or even half of that…. Just do your counting

[jpatdeleon09]

[Állex Sodi]

Nmj, on 22 November 2023 - 10:10 AM, said:

I’m sure he’s faced adversities for being gay, no doubt…
I just think this wasn’t the case in this situation … however, me saying that here has someone calling me “Homophobic”. I really would like to understand how someone gets to that conclusion.

Oh, your are confused? I explain to you!
You pin point two gay man in the industry to make a point that this it’s not about sexuality cause some gay man achieve commercial success. That’s the main argument to anyone who tries deny the existence of any prejudice structure.

“Oh, there’s no racism, Oprah did” “There’s no homophobia, you see Freddie Mercury…”

Simple as that!

[Davey84]

celinesounds, on 22 November 2023 - 01:22 PM, said:

Even if was not a single,
The album sold more than 30 million copies
If he got his 50 cents per copy, or even half of that…. Just do your counting

But... he hasn't written nor produced it... so he doesn't own any rights to the song, thus in no way entitled to income from LIOTW.

WRITTEN BY:
Peter Zizzo
Denise Rich
Tina Shafer
PRODUCED BY:
Ric Wake

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[CelinesDIVO5]

celinesounds, on 22 November 2023 - 01:22 PM, said:

Even if was not a single,
The album sold more than 30 million copies
If he got his 50 cents per copy, or even half of that…. Just do your counting

He’s not a writer on the song.

[smw]

Davey84, on 22 November 2023 - 01:35 PM, said:

But... he hasn't written nor produced it... so he doesn't own any rights to the song, thus in no way entitled to income from LIOTW.

WRITTEN BY:
Peter Zizzo
Denise Rich
Tina Shafer
PRODUCED BY:
Ric Wake

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I would love to know how much these people made to have a song on one of Celine's big albums.

[Nmj]

Állex Sodi, on 22 November 2023 - 01:35 PM, said:

Oh, your are confused? I explain to you!
You pin point two gay man in the industry to make a point that this it’s not about sexuality cause some gay man achieve commercial success. That’s the main argument to anyone who tries deny the existence of any prejudice structure.

“Oh, there’s no racism, Oprah did” “There’s no homophobia, you see Freddie Mercury…”

Simple as that!

Okay buddy.
Again… you know the saying, anyone who assumes…makes an #ss of themselves. First 3 letters after all.

[celinesounds]

Davey84, on 22 November 2023 - 01:35 PM, said:

But... he hasn't written nor produced it... so he doesn't own any rights to the song, thus in no way entitled to income from LIOTW.

WRITTEN BY:
Peter Zizzo
Denise Rich
Tina Shafer
PRODUCED BY:
Ric Wake

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If is registered as the 1st singer, officially he receives royalties for that too,

[CelinesDIVO5]

celinesounds, on 22 November 2023 - 02:42 PM, said:

If is registered as the 1st singer, officially he receives royalties for that too,

That’s not exactly true. Billy would have to own part of the copyright to the song. Just because he recorded it, doesn’t make the latter so. Also, as the recording artist, he would not be entitled to any publishing rights for royalties.

[celinesounds]

CelinesDIVO5, on 22 November 2023 - 02:53 PM, said:

That’s not exactly true. Billy would have to own part of the copyright to the song. Just because he recorded it, doesn’t make the latter so. Also, as the recording artist, he would not be entitled to any publishing rights for royalties.

I’m an associate with an association who takes care of that in case of a cover, even if I’m  not a songwriter or a producer

Anyway like Mariah “I don’t know her”

Edited by celinesounds, 22 November 2023 - 03:27 PM.

[CelinesDIVO5]

celinesounds, on 22 November 2023 - 03:22 PM, said:

I’m an associate with an association who takes care of that in case of a cover, even if I’m  not a songwriter or a producer

Anyway like Mariah “I don’t know her”

What? Lol

[Chantemoi]

CelinesDIVO5, on 22 November 2023 - 10:36 AM, said:

That being said, all of his feelings of homophobia and racism are valid. And they exist still to this day in the industry. But he needs to come off of the excuse that because it was handed to Celine, his version didn’t get the chance to thrive. It had the chance to thrive. It just…didn’t.

Agree, however if he’d read his contract he would have known that any of his songs were fair game to be doled out to bigger artists. That’s how the industry works. Though I do feel his pain - it must suck to have your “big break” passed off to an artist who has already “made it”. Bet he’s not complaining about those royalty checks though… I’m sure they went a long way improving Billy’s quality of life.