Celine and her Songwriters - Discuss

[imaswede78]

I read this online a long time ago and thankfully saved the link. This article is very critical of Celine's team's way of choosing songs. Please don't be mad at me! I love Celine!! I'm just interested to know what anyone else thinks after reading this. I think the guy just doesn't like Celine in general and is trying to make people mad at her. (YEAH RIGHT BUDDY!)

 

http://www.jimsteinman.com/sacred.htm

Edited February 4, 2008 at 05:46 AM by imaswede78

[Prince Whiskers]

That's an old article and obviously, Celine didn't need Jim Steinman to sell 30M copies of LTAL.

[Prince Whiskers]

By the way, Dan Hill reportedly made $1.4M in royalties for his song "Seduces Me". Can you imagine how much James Horner got for MHWGO?!

[CelineFanInSoCal]

I think it just goes to show that business is still business, even though our loverly gal is still singing their tunes. Given the fact that most of us have seen Celine in interview regarding the process of song selection for albums, I don't think Celine would not record a song, or even include it on an album, just because the songwriter wouldn't give up partial rights to their work. Just my little ol opinion.

[amelie]

i do its the only way to explain the dropping quality of her albums since FIY

[tonybower]

I really hate articles like this.

I'm not seeing it isn't true. It probably is. What annoys me is the way it is written and the thinly-veiled attacks at Celine.

The way they keep repeating "songs Dion didn't write" emphasising the fact she doesn't write her own material. We all know this.

And then saying "divas like Barbra Streisand, Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey are not in the business of charging a fee to their songwriters". suggesting that even the worse Diva would not have the audacity to make such a request.

And then of course, using words like "Dion's demand" and then insisiting that Carole King had ""never" been asked to do such a thing in the past by anyone".

This writer clearly does not like or respect Celine Dion. Admittedly articles would not be interesting if the writer did not take some kind of slant, either positive or negative, but trying to blacken Celine's name like that is inexcusable.

 

1) Celine has never claimed to be a songwriter. She probably wishes she could/did write her own stuff but she doesn't. She's a singer. Her talent is singing. And who said that was any less credible than a talent for a writing songs? Okay, it's a natural talent but surely being able to write good music is also innate, like any talent? Plus Celine worked extremely hard to perfect her voice. It takes more than a god given talent to sing like Celine. She worked just as hard as any songwriter to get where she is today. Okay, she relied heavily on their songs but how successful would their songs have been without Celine's voice?

 

2) Even if Celine made this so-called "demand" (I prefer to think of it as a request or negotiation) it is perfectly understandable. This is business of course. I'm sure the song writers have done something similar in their time. At the time of LTAL, Celine was at the top of her game and probably the best-known female singer in the world. It stands to reason that her album could expect to be a multi-million selling success. Therefore, more money for all involved. With that much power, Celine or Rene or whoever were just playing the logical businessman by asking for a higher cut. At the end of the day, I doubt the album would have sold much more if it had contained songs by the writers who declined the offer. It was going to sell millions anyway, so the writers are the only people who might have lost out.

 

To conclude, I admit Celine depends heavily on the material submitted to her. At the beginning of her career, the songs and the writers were vital to her success. That goes without saying. However, as the singer emerges they take on a life of their own and they play as much of a role, if not more, in the success of a record. As we have seen in other threads, Celine doesn't make much from sales or royalties so it stands to reason that she might try to secure a higher cut from the songwriters. I don't think she was ripping them off. I think she was basically saying 'okay, you write the songs and I need them for my album. But this album is going to sell and make you people millions because my name is on the front. So why not give me a higher cut'

Whether that seems like an outlandish request I don't know. I think it's acceptable.

I just hate the fact that Celine is ridiculed because she doesn't write her own stuff. Obviously I respect artists who write and perform their own material, but look at David Foster and Diane Warren. These two are responsible for some of Celine's best-loved songs. But neither of them can sing!! Yes, Celine might depend on other people for her songs, but where would these writers be without singers like Celine to sing them. Nowhere. It's a partnership.

The writers in the music industry clearly have a better deal then the writers in TV. Yes, actors/directors etc are needed to produce shows, but there would be no show to produce without the writers.

What would happen if every singer who did not write their own stuff suddenly went on strike to get a bigger cut? Well, the songwriters would be out of a job and the only performers out there would be people who could both write and perform! Are we trying to say that these people are the only legitimate artists out there? I don't think so.

 

Phew, I'm glad I got that off my chest!

 

I do think there is some truth in this though: how else can we explain the disappearance of Warren and other recurring names from the credits in Celine's albums? I know some people are against the idea of Celine working with David Foster again, and Taking Chances has proven to be one of Celine's greatest albums yet, without the staple songwriters. However, I would hate to think that such great partnerships were tarnished because of a proposed business deal. Money just ruins everything!

Edited February 4, 2008 at 01:09 PM by tonybower

[grobandion]

I disagree deeply with amelie, I believe Taking Chances is a sublime album, with amazing lyrics in songs like "I got nothin' left", "This time" or any other.

Besides, I couldn't care less about her not writting her own songs. What's wrong with that?

I loooooove Celine, she's the best...la mejor

[Shesings2me]

I really hate articles like this.

I'm not seeing it isn't true. It probably is. What annoys me is the way it is written and the thinly-veiled attacks at Celine.

The way they keep repeating "songs Dion didn't write" emphasising the fact she doesn't write her own material. We all know this.

And then saying "divas like Barbra Streisand, Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey are not in the business of charging a fee to their songwriters". suggesting that even the worse Diva would not have the audacity to make such a request.

And then of course, using words like "Dion's demand" and then insisiting that Carole King had ""never" been asked to do such a thing in the past by anyone".

This writer clearly does not like or respect Celine Dion. Admittedly articles would not be interesting if the writer did not take some kind of slant, either positive or negative, but trying to blacken Celine's name like that is inexcusable.

 

1) Celine has never claimed to be a songwriter. She probably wishes she could/did write her own stuff but she doesn't. She's a singer. Her talent is singing. And who said that was any less credible than a talent for a writing songs? Okay, it's a natural talent but surely being able to write good music is also innate, like any talent? Plus Celine worked extremely hard to perfect her voice. It takes more than a god given talent to sing like Celine. She worked just as hard as any songwriter to get where she is today. Okay, she relied heavily on their songs but how successful would their songs have been without Celine's voice?

 

2) Even if Celine made this so-called "demand" (I prefer to think of it as a request or negotiation) it is perfectly understandable. This is business of course. I'm sure the song writers have done something similar in their time. At the time of LTAL, Celine was at the top of her game and probably the best-known female singer in the world. It stands to reason that her album could expect to be a multi-million selling success. Therefore, more money for all involved. With that much power, Celine or Rene or whoever were just playing the logical businessman by asking for a higher cut. At the end of the day, I doubt the album would have sold much more if it had contained songs by the writers who declined the offer. It was going to sell millions anyway, so the writers are the only people who might have lost out.

 

To conclude, I admit Celine depends heavily on the material submitted to her. At the beginning of her career, the songs and the writers were vital to her success. That goes without saying. However, as the singer emerges they take on a life of their own and they play as much of a role, if not more, in the success of a record. As we have seen in other threads, Celine doesn't make much from sales or royalties so it stands to reason that she might try to secure a higher cut from the songwriters. I don't think she was ripping them off. I think she was basically saying 'okay, you write the songs and I need them for my album. But this album is going to sell and make you people millions because my name is on the front. So why not give me a higher cut'

Whether that seems like an outlandish request I don't know. I think it's acceptable.

I just hate the fact that Celine is ridiculed because she doesn't write her own stuff. Obviously I respect artists who write and perform their own material, but look at David Foster and Diane Warren. These two are responsible for some of Celine's best-loved songs. But neither of them can sing!! Yes, Celine might depend on other people for her songs, but where would these writers be without singers like Celine to sing them. Nowhere. It's a partnership.

The writers in the music industry clearly have a better deal then the writers in TV. Yes, actors/directors etc are needed to produce shows, but there would be no show to produce without the writers.

What would happen if every singer who did not write their own stuff suddenly went on strike to get a bigger cut? Well, the songwriters would be out of a job and the only performers out there would be people who could both write and perform! Are we trying to say that these people are the only legitimate artists out there? I don't think so.

 

Phew, I'm glad I got that off my chest!

 

I do think there is some truth in this though: how else can we explain the disappearance of Warren and other recurring names from the credits in Celine's albums? I know some people are against the idea of Celine working with David Foster again, and Taking Chances has proven to be one of Celine's greatest albums yet, without the staple songwriters. However, I would hate to think that such great partnerships were tarnished because of a proposed business deal. Money just ruins everything!

 

After a beautiful, poignant response like this nothing else needs to be said. Thank you so much for hitting every point and doing it so well.

[aicee]

That's an old article and obviously, Celine didn't need Jim Steinman to sell 30M copies of LTAL.

 

 

Yeah, Manuel has a point.

[shady pines ma]

Frankly, I wish Is Nothing Sacred HAD been on the album. For one, then there might be a better quality version floating around online. (Not that it'd then affect my ability to get a good one, as I have LTAL and therefore would have the song.) Secondly, I hate Where Is The Love, and that's the song that replaced it, so yes.

[Prince Whiskers]

Diane Warren, David Foster and Jim Steinman are sooooo over! The music industry is teeming with real talents who have never worked with Celine before but would be happy to have the chance.

 

Celine has actually been writing songs for a long time already but she's too coy to submit them for her albums.

 

"Singing and writing, they're two different careers." ---- Celine Dion

[Black Kitten]

Diane Warren, David Foster and Jim Steinman are sooooo over! The music industry is teeming with real talents who have never worked with Celine before but would be happy to have the chance.

 

Celine has actually been writing songs for a long time already but she's too coy to submit them for her albums.

 

"Singing and writing, they're two different careers." ---- Celine Dion

oh really? that sounds strange cause i never heard of such facts that celine can write songs. but it's nice to know that. any links?>

[Prince Whiskers]

She started creating songs during her honeymoon vacation. She called back her anwering machine at home to record song lines. I think she also got a lot of time to write when she was pregnant with RC.

[grobandion]

didn't she co-write the song "tout pres du bonheur" that she sing background vocals with her son in law? I think she did

[ashie]

didn't she co-write the song "tout pres du bonheur" that she sing background vocals with her son in law? I think she did

 

she actually wrote that song for her daughter-in-laws wedding and Marc Dupree asked her permission to record it and adapt the lyrics.

[CelineAndRene]

LOL we have a new enemy lol

 

And WTF?! IACBTMN was on Falling Into You..Not LTAL...

[Prince Whiskers]

That Roger Friedman was the same tool who bashed TCH calling it "poorly sequenced', among other things. Wait till the Undie-Hating Bear gets hold of him. He'll make him "poorly sequenced" by putting his poopy head right up his Alicia-adoring you-know-what.

[SuperLove4Celine]

Diane Warren, David Foster and Jim Steinman are sooooo over! The music industry is teeming with real talents who have never worked with Celine before but would be happy to have the chance.

 

Celine has actually been writing songs for a long time already but she's too coy to submit them for her albums.

 

"Singing and writing, they're two different careers." ---- Celine Dion

oh really? that sounds strange cause i never heard of such facts that celine can write songs. but it's nice to know that. any links?>

 

She mentioned that she's written songs in the book, For Keeps. There is a section where she mentions the name of one of these songs, "Drop By Drop," describing its sound to be more like that of The Beatles. She further goes on to mention that the reason this song has never been on one of her albums is because she is too much of a perfectionist. The amount of time it would take to get each cello, each instrument sounding the exact way she hears it in her head would take an unrealistic amount of time to get cut.

 

- Joe

[Davey84]

didn't she co-write the song "tout pres du bonheur" that she sing background vocals with her son in law? I think she did

 

she actually wrote that song for her daughter-in-laws wedding and Marc Dupree asked her permission to record it and adapt the lyrics.

 

actually she wrote the lyrics AND music! Marc Dupré only used the music! The lyrics are not the same!

 

She mentioned that she's written songs in the book, For Keeps. There is a section where she mentions the name of one of these songs, "Drop By Drop," describing its sound to be more like that of The Beatles. She further goes on to mention that the reason this song has never been on one of her albums is because she is too much of a perfectionist. The amount of time it would take to get each cello, each instrument sounding the exact way she hears it in her head would take an unrealistic amount of time to get cut.

 

- Joe

 

yeah I know she's a perfectionist! that's why you'll never see her play an instrument on sale! But I also think that if Eddy Marnay, Luc Plamandon, JJ Goldman RENÉ!!! would have encouraged her in an early age to write, I think she could have been very good! And what is bad with working for a long time for a really good album? I'd rather have an album every 2 years then one every year!

 

edit: on sale?? on sale??? :lmao: on stage

Edited February 6, 2008 at 10:25 PM by Davey84