1600 replies to this topic

[KyleVan41]

Falling Into You winning I Remember that night so vividly. I recall arguing with a friend at school who was convinced smashing pumpkins would win.  I remember Celine won best pop album earlier in the pre telecast and after she lost best pop vocal to Toni Braxton I went to bed thinking it was over ……and woke up to the news she won album of the year!!!!!  I also remember so vividly the next day being at music world and people buying it .

The album was huge …32 million copies ! Also Mariah has never won album or record of the year.  Only Celine and Whitney have 😏😏😏😏.  Whitney also only has one more Grammy than Celine. Which is bonkers considering insane vocalists like Martina McBride have zero Grammys but Fergie does .  Colossal joke

But falling into you has stood the test of time - I mean just look at I love you in 2024 alone

Edited by KyleVan41, 06 February 2025 - 12:04 PM.

[CelinesDIVO5]

KyleVan41, on 06 February 2025 - 12:00 PM, said:

Falling Into You winning I Remember that night so vividly. I recall arguing with a friend at school who was convinced smashing pumpkins would win.  I remember Celine won best pop album earlier in the pre telecast and after she lost best pop vocal to Toni Braxton I went to bed thinking it was over ……and woke up to the news she won album of the year!!!!!  I also remember so vividly the next day being at music world and people buying it .

The album was huge …32 million copies ! Also Mariah has never won album or record of the year.  Only Celine and Whitney have 😏😏😏😏.  Whitney also only has one more Grammy than Celine. Which is bonkers considering insane vocalists like Martina McBride have zero Grammys but Fergie does .  Colossal joke

But falling into you has stood the test of time - I mean just look at I love you in 2024 alone

Mariah’s “Daydream” should have won plenty. That was a terrible snub on the Academy voters’ part.

[KyleVan41]

CelinesDIVO5, on 06 February 2025 - 01:51 PM, said:

Mariah’s “Daydream” should have won plenty. That was a terrible snub on the Academy voters’ part.

Should have at LEAST won pop duo for one sweet day. Kinda insane. No wonder she is pissed lol

[Állex Sodi]

LukeD, on 06 February 2025 - 11:45 AM, said:

It is also a joke that FIY is criticised as impersonal, overproduced and weak when 'Cowboy Carter' involved 72 songwriters.

That’s not true, though. Cowboy Carter only has seven songwriters credited, as listed on the Grammy website. But Beyoncé uses a lot of samples, mostly from other Black artists, and she made sure to give credit to each and every one of them. The album explores the history of Black artists in the origins of country music. Additionally, it’s part of a three-part project focused on reclaiming the Black influence in the creation of several genres. It’s anything but impersonal.

As for Celine, most fans here have stated several times that she only provides the vocals, René was the one behind the creativity (along with other executives, of course). How personal could that be? If anything, time has shown us that Celine has absolutely no connection to her English catalog beyond the commercial aspect. She sings the hits but has never cared for the rest. It means more to the fans than it does to her.

That doesn’t mean it’s not good, most of it is really good. Albums from artists like Britney and some boy bands are also good. But they’re impersonal and overproduced, and there’s no way to compare them with anything Beyoncé has done in the last 15 years in terms of artistry.

[LukeD]

Állex Sodi, on 06 February 2025 - 07:50 PM, said:

That's not true, though. Cowboy Carter only has seven songwriters credited, as listed on the Grammy website. But Beyoncé uses a lot of samples, mostly from other Black artists, and she made sure to give credit to each and every one of them. The album explores the history of Black artists in the origins of country music. Additionally, it's part of a three-part project focused on reclaiming the Black influence in the creation of several genres. It's anything but impersonal.

As for Celine, most fans here have stated several times that she only provides the vocals, René was the one behind the creativity (along with other executives, of course). How personal could that be? If anything, time has shown us that Celine has absolutely no connection to her English catalog beyond the commercial aspect. She sings the hits but has never cared for the rest. It means more to the fans than it does to her.

It still took the work of 72 songwriters to make the album what it is. Nobody said that all 72 of them sat in a large conference table to come up with the lyrics. Obviously loads of these credits come from sampling, but these are still an integral part of the album. Plus the staggering number of producers. How one would think this album is personal when so many people were involved is beyond me. I hear your argument about its purpose, but I am not convinced at all. This is because I am dealing with an artist who claims to want to serve/support the black community through expanding the contribution of black singers to music genres, yet she's never toured to Africa. This is obviously because Africa is not quite the profitable destination for touring acts, which makes me see the instrumentality behind her actions. Fighting for social change only when rewards (or in this case awards ) are involved. Take these out of the equation and she has no interest of engagement. She pretends to be an activist when she's really self-serving. And I can't stand that in people no matter their skillset or impact.

And yes, FIY is overproduced as well. There's no denying that. But at least Celine knew where to draw the line.

Edited by LukeD, 06 February 2025 - 10:35 PM.

[DCCeline]

Davey84, on 06 February 2025 - 09:23 AM, said:

yup!! I mention it every time... the fact Céline lost best female vocal for TPOL to Sheryl Crow's All I Wanna Do is a freaking joke! Even after 30 years!

Just so people are aware Best pop vocal performance is not for who had the best vocals on a song. It's the best song that has vocals. It has nothing to do with the quality of the vocals.  

Although I agree, the power of love is better than all I want to do, which is terrible in my opinion

[comingback]

Nmj, on 06 February 2025 - 10:59 AM, said:

I don’t think it was outdated, it didn’t even receive a single nomination at least. Celine’s last nomination was for Best Collaboration with Frank Sinatra for the song “All The Way”…

CelinesDIVO5, on 06 February 2025 - 01:51 PM, said:

Mariah's "Daydream" should have won plenty. That was a terrible snub on the Academy voters' part.

The last Grammy nomination was for the Prayer in 2000.



Poor Mariah

[comingback]

comingback, on 07 February 2025 - 08:08 AM, said:

The last Grammy nomination was for the Prayer in 2000.



Poor Mariah

Sorry, you were right. All The Way was the last nomination in 2001.

[KyleVan41]

The prayer should have a won a Grammy especially considering Andrea Bocelli had never won and still doesn’t have a Grammy! Blasphemy !

[comingback]

YES, and they lost against Santana��.

[PuraVida]

Állex Sodi, on 06 February 2025 - 07:50 PM, said:

As for Celine, most fans here have stated several times that she only provides the vocals, René was the one behind the creativity (along with other executives, of course). How personal could that be? If anything, time has shown us that Celine has absolutely no connection to her English catalog beyond the commercial aspect. She sings the hits but has never cared for the rest. It means more to the fans than it does to her.

From all the recording studio footage I've seen, Rene wasn't generating any creative input or value whatsoever. I am sure he had his moments, but for the most part I see Celine's songs as a product of her working with the producer/songwriters. Take the recording of "I Knew I Loved You" for example.

And especially as her English career went forward, I doubt she recorded many songs she didn't personally like. She's on record saying the stuff she likes most from her own material is usually the B-sides...so "not caring for the rest (non-hits)" isn't really true.

[Davey84]

PuraVida, on 11 February 2025 - 03:27 AM, said:

From all the recording studio footage I've seen, Rene wasn't generating any creative input or value whatsoever. I am sure he had his moments, but for the most part I see Celine's songs as a product of her working with the producer/songwriters. Take the recording of "I Knew I Loved You" for example.

And especially as her English career went forward, I doubt she recorded many songs she didn't personally like. She's on record saying the stuff she likes most from her own material is usually the B-sides...so "not caring for the rest (non-hits)" isn't really true.

I don't know about the recording process, but I am sure René had a big say in the song selection. We never saw any footage of that. That would have been really interesting to see!

[isurrender]

Állex Sodi, on 06 February 2025 - 07:50 PM, said:

The album explores the history of Black artists in the origins of country music. Additionally, it’s part of a three-part project focused on reclaiming the Black influence in the creation of several genres. It’s anything but impersonal

Sorry but I fail to understand how this is personal to Beyonce.  

What has Beyonce to do with the origins of musical genres?
Lol

I am not saying it's good or bad...this was for sure a nice historical concept but concretely how retable is it to Beyonce ?

And how can you say that Céline's music is impersonal to her?

She sings mostly about love... and she had one of the best show business romances and her live revolve(d?) around love. She certainly knows the file.

I think you are mixing up a lot of things here.  

Literally the whole world relates to songs. So because they didn't create them, it’s impersonal ?

[CelinesDIVO5]

isurrender, on 11 February 2025 - 04:28 AM, said:

Sorry but I fail to understand how this is personal to Beyonce.  

What has Beyonce to do with the origins of musical genres?
Lol

I am not saying it's good or bad...this was for sure a nice historical concept but concretely how retable is it to Beyonce ?

And how can you say that Céline's music is impersonal to her?

She sings mostly about love... and she had one of the best show business romances and her live revolve(d?) around love. She certainly knows the file.

I think you are mixing up a lot of things here.  

Literally the whole world relates to songs. So because they didn't create them, it’s impersonal ?

It’s personal to Beyonce because she is Black, and she was getting in touch with her roots. Country music was built off of the talents of Black people in the United States. She wanted to bring that to the forefront of her project. Multiple Black country artists were also featured on the album. She’s a born and raised Southern girl, and Country music is part of her.

“Renaissance” was also personal to her. It was a love letter to her uncle who was Gay and died of AIDS, and also whom she was extremely close to. He introduced her to dance music and the world of ballroom culture. It was also a love letter to her LGBTQ+ fans who have always been there for her. She featured several LGBTQ+ artists (through both features and samples) and producers.

These were carefully curated projects that Beyonce had worked on for 5 years. That alone makes it personal, when you put your blood, sweat and tears into the creation of something. I’m not a huge Bey fan or anything, but I did watch her “Renaissance” film, and it really was incredible to see how involved she was in the process of everything.

Now, as much as I love Celine…we have never seen her super involved in the production of anything. Yes, some suggestions regarding vocals in the studio here and there. And she saw a vision for Vegas…but how involved was she after meeting Franco Dragone and agreeing to go for it? We got a three hour documentary (TTEOTW), and while I loved every second of watching her tour the world and experience things, it was a lot of life fluff. Some behind the scenes things were fun and cool to see. But we could see she wasn’t super involved in the operations of that tour. I would have loved to see Celine more involved in the creative process of shows, albums, song production etc. Not to say she doesn’t choose songs that are personal to her, or that she doesn’t record and interpret them in a way that makes them personal to her. It’s just a huge difference in level of involvement.

[Alex_Incognito]

LukeD, on 06 February 2025 - 10:33 PM, said:

yet she's never toured to Africa.

Often American black culture is disconnected to African culture.  That's why the term used here in the USA "African American" is such fluff.  The term was popularized in the 1980's to give black Americans a more "dignified" name (look up Jesse Jackson, if that interests you). The goal was to connect heritage and identity (like Italian American, etc).   Though Africa is a giant continent and that doesn't do justice to the many countries there.    

Sadly these issues seem to be going nowhere in the US.   Racists don't seem to be dying off fast enough, and people seem to want to prove we're more different than similar.    Hell, we've got lots of issues.  But many of our western friends do, as well.

I'd like to dedicate the next song to all the parents and children in the world...

[CelinesDIVO5]

Alex_Incognito, on 11 February 2025 - 12:22 PM, said:

Often American black culture is disconnected to African culture.  That's why the term used here in the USA "African American" is such fluff.  The term was popularized in the 1980's to give black Americans a more "dignified" name (look up Jesse Jackson, if that interests you). The goal was to connect heritage and identity (like Italian American, etc).   Though Africa is a giant continent and that doesn't do justice to the many countries there.    

Sadly these issues seem to be going nowhere in the US.   Racists don't seem to be dying off fast enough, and people seem to want to prove we're more different than similar.    Hell, we've got lots of issues.  But many of our western friends do, as well.

I'd like to dedicate the next song to all the parents and children in the world...

A lot of Black people in the US do not want to be called African American. They just want to identify as Black, because there are many Black people who are not of African heritage. They feel it creates more of a divide.

[Nmj]

Black, white, purple or green… in my opinion Beyonces album was subpar, Cowboys Carter wasn’t the best album of the year not even the great country album of the year…. However, what do I know? We are currently typing on the forum, dedicated to a woman who hasn’t won Grammy for 30 years we still can’t understand that.

[isurrender]

CelinesDIVO5, on 11 February 2025 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's personal to Beyonce because she is Black, and she was getting in touch with her roots. Country music was built off of the talents of Black people in the United States. She wanted to bring that to the forefront of her project. Multiple Black country artists were also featured on the album. She's a born and raised Southern girl, and Country music is part of her.

"Renaissance" was also personal to her. It was a love letter to her uncle who was Gay and died of AIDS, and also whom she was extremely close to. He introduced her to dance music and the world of ballroom culture. It was also a love letter to her LGBTQ+ fans who have always been there for her. She featured several LGBTQ+ artists (through both features and samples) and producers.

Jesus, how many lives did Beyonce have? Reading this, it's like she is an expert of every genre. And an early genius because she started working at 16 in the Destiny's Child...

"Because she is black"...I was sure someone would bring this up. But we surely don't have the same definition of "personal". Personal to me means something related to a person, not a whole ethnicity.

I don't consider ( but who does? This album is never talked about) "Miracle" as super personal because she has a kid. So a dance album would be personal because she has a gay relative? Ok then, but not to me.

I was not denying anything to Beyonce ( her talent, her involvement etc) or comparing with Céline.
I only "froze" at the personal/impersonal stuff.

[CelinesDIVO5]

isurrender, on 11 February 2025 - 01:21 PM, said:

Jesus, how many lives did Beyonce have? Reading this, it's like she is an expert of every genre. And an early genius because she started working at 16 in the Destiny's Child...

"Because she is black"...I was sure someone would bring this up. But we surely don't have the same definition of "personal". Personal to me means something related to a person, not a whole ethnicity.

I don't consider ( but who does? This album is never talked about) "Miracle" as super personal because she has a kid. So a dance album would be personal because she has a gay relative? Ok then, but not to me.

I was not denying anything to Beyonce ( her talent, her involvement etc) or comparing with Céline.
I only "froze" at the personal/impersonal stuff.

One’s heritage and experiences can be and are very personal. Especially if your heritage is one of persecution, discrimination and racism. Which many black people still face today in the United States. That is all part of her as a person. Yes, she had a relative who was gay. Someone she was very close to, who taught her and exposed her to many beautiful things in her life. For her, that is personal, hence an album dedicated to her uncle, who taught her about the pop culture of house and dance music.

Yes, Celine sings about love. But I don’t think there are many songs…at least in her English catalogue that she has sat down and said “This resonates with me. This song has reached into a deep part of my soul.” The few examples I can think of that are even close to that kind of personal for her, are ANDHC, My Love and Courage. There is nothing in production of her albums that screams “Celine wanted to reach into her roots and bring this personal touch to this album.” Like I said, it’s just a different level of involvement, and after watching Beyonce working, I can see how these projects are very personal to her.

[KyleVan41]

Cowboy Carter winning album of the year is considered a joke among many I’ve been speaking to.  And no not all of them are white. I actually don’t mind some songs , but “album of the year “ - and it barely went platinum. If Beyoncé were to have taken any album of the year win, I think I am…Sasha fierce was the one that should have been awarded.  But that’s just me.  Now that the Grammys hard on for her and Taylor is done let’s hope they move on once and for all.

[PuraVida]

Davey84, on 11 February 2025 - 03:42 AM, said:

I don't know about the recording process, but I am sure René had a big say in the song selection. We never saw any footage of that. That would have been really interesting to see!

I remember during FIY/LTAL era she said she recieves thousands of songs, and she has people she trusts/who know her tastes listen to them and set aside ones she thinks she might like. Then she chooses from there after listening one time.

[comingback]

FIY recording session

Of course Rene had a say in the selection of the songs for the album, but I think Celine wouldn't choose a song that she don't like and can relate to.
And Fly is very personal....

[emiliejolie]

That’s true but if you count all the covers that are present on this album …. 16 songs … 7 covers !!!! It means 9 original songs !!! Did it really need over hundred writers ??

[emiliejolie]

That’s true but if you count all the covers that are present on this album …. 16 songs … 7 covers !!!! It means 9 original songs !!! Did it really need over hundred writers ??

[comingback]

comingback, on 12 February 2025 - 04:38 AM, said:

FIY recording session

Of course Rene had a say in the selection of the songs for the album, but I think Celine wouldn't choose a song that she doesn't like and can relate to.
And Fly is very personal....

emiliejolie, on 12 February 2025 - 05:07 AM, said:

That's true but if you count all the covers that are present on this album …. 16 songs … 7 covers !!!! It means 9 original songs !!! Did it really need over hundred writers ??

Yes, Celine doesn't write and produce her songs/albums, so of course there are a lot of songwriters and producers for the album. But that doesn't mean the album/song is not personal. We all wish that Celine had more input in her music (songwriting etc.) like Mariah f. ex., but sadly it's not the case. She tried here and there in her French music and even in her English music (DSIAFCD), but as Celine said, she is singer who put her feelings in a song like an actress.

[comingback]

comingback, on 12 February 2025 - 04:38 AM, said:

FIY recording session

Of course Rene had a say in the selection of the songs for the album, but I think Celine wouldn't choose a song that she doesn't like and can't relate to.
And Fly is very personal....

emiliejolie, on 12 February 2025 - 05:07 AM, said:

That's true but if you count all the covers that are present on this album …. 16 songs … 7 covers !!!! It means 9 original songs !!! Did it really need over hundred writers ??

comingback, on 12 February 2025 - 05:34 AM, said:

Yes, Celine doesn't write and produce her songs/albums, so of course there are a lot of songwriters and producers for the album. But that doesn't mean the album/song is not personal. We all wish that Celine would have more input in her music (songwriting etc.) like Mariah f. ex., but sadly it's not the case. She tried here and there in her French music and even in her English music (DSIAFCD), but as Celine said, she is singer who put her feelings in a song like an actress.

[mirage]

They put out some new merchandise for FIY

https://www.instagra...nhkYnl0N3Z4Zw==

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-F721B met Tapatalk

[DCCeline]

So question is late 1998 the last time she sang IACBTMN live?  Is any part of the song live at all post 1998?

[comingback]

Like TPOL, IACBTMN has a prerecorded track. I don't think that she sang it live again after her babybreak in 2002.
What is your favorite live IACBTMN performance from the 90s?

I love the Rosie Show performance.❤️

https://m.youtube.co...GNvbWluZyBiYWNr

[DCCeline]

I love Rosie with rasp.  I love the 1996 Montreal special performance as well.