1600 replies to this topic

[ordinary fan]

actofcontrition, on 17 April 2022 - 07:12 AM, said:

OMG all of this would be a dream come true !!!

I agree all of that would be awesome

[smw]

Do we know why To Love You More wasn’t included on the US version of Falling Into You?

[Davey84]

smw, on 26 July 2022 - 11:41 AM, said:

Do we know why To Love You More wasn’t included on the US version of Falling Into You?

I think they considered the album done as it was. If there would have been an extra track on the American FIY it should have been YL, as NW was already released on Trapestry Revisited in 1995 in the States.

TLYM is a 1995 song and back in those days you couldn't get your hands on a song that was released in Japan like you would now. I guess the song became more popular because it was included in the FIY tour and got picked up in the States and they wanted to prolong the success of TLYM with putting it on LTAL.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

[celinesounds]

Mudo, on 16 April 2022 - 06:54 PM, said:

They released it in 2 VCDs in HK. It's a CD with video on it. It about an inch better in quality than a VHS:
http://www.45worlds....c/4893391014321

I can’t believe I’ve lost mine 😩

[Lolo88]

Hey guys, for those who wants to ear something incredible, here's the full version of "It's All Coming Back to Me Now" in DOLBY ATMOS <3

Enjoy

[Chantemoi]

I Love You (a capella)

[LukeD]

Over 740.000.000 streams on Spotify and counting!

[smw]

LukeD, on 07 March 2023 - 12:08 PM, said:

Over 740.000.000 streams on Spotify and counting!

How does this compare to others like Whitney, Mariah, Madonna, and Janet?

[LukeD]

smw, on 07 March 2023 - 01:47 PM, said:

How does this compare to others like Whitney, Mariah, Madonna, and Janet?

No clue! I do not follow any them

[AdrienneM]

smw, on 07 March 2023 - 01:47 PM, said:

How does this compare to others like Whitney, Mariah, Madonna, and Janet?

Mariahs daydream which was released the year before, and is arguably her commercial peak, is at over 800,000,000 streams, Whitney’s 1987 ‘Whitney’ album (her commercial peak) is at well over 1 billion

[CelinesDIVO5]

AdrienneM, on 07 March 2023 - 04:44 PM, said:

Mariahs daydream which was released the year before, and is arguably her commercial peak, is at over 800,000,000 streams, Whitney’s 1987 ‘Whitney’ album (her commercial peak) is at well over 1 billion

Music Box I believe actually sold more than Daydream.

[smw]

CelinesDIVO5, on 08 March 2023 - 01:01 AM, said:

Music Box I believe actually sold more than Daydream.

Music Box is a wonderful album.

[CelinesDIVO5]

smw, on 08 March 2023 - 10:08 PM, said:

Music Box is a wonderful album.

Definitely one of my favorites of all time.

[LukeD]

Falling Into You / Let's Talk About Love > Music Box > All The Way > Daydream in terms of total sales.

[comingback]

Why can't they pick a better picture of Celine? The TC album cover is horrible.

Edited by comingback, 09 March 2023 - 03:38 AM.

[CelinesDIVO5]

LukeD, on 09 March 2023 - 03:02 AM, said:

Falling Into You / Let's Talk About Love > Music Box > All The Way > Daydream in terms of total sales.

The times (at least in the US) were different for all of those albums between 1992 and 1996, the United States was coming out of a very bad financial recession. People weren’t spending as much. Clinton was re-elected in 1996, in large part for what his administration did for the economy. Couple that with the fact that Mariah has always been a singles artist (singles were also much less expensive to buy than a full album), which is what her management was shooting for at the time. They wanted a slew of chart topping hits. Celine has always been an albums artist as Rene and Celine took a much different approach to her career. It still doesn’t take away that both of Mariah’s albums mentioned above are among the best selling albums ever in the world.

[smw]

Mariah’s negative attitude tainted her music for me. It’s unfortunate.

[AdrienneM]

CelinesDIVO5, on 08 March 2023 - 01:01 AM, said:

Music Box I believe actually sold more than Daydream.

The album did yes, but the chart success of daydream surpasses any project Mariah has ever produced. The back to back success of Fantasy, One Sweet Day and Always Be My Baby was ridiculous.

[LukeD]

comingback, on 09 March 2023 - 03:34 AM, said:

Mariah's numbers are grossly inflated, as usual. She is nowhere near close to 170m album sales. Some Celine numbers are flawed too, her self-titled album has not sold 10m.

[LukeD]

CelinesDIVO5, on 09 March 2023 - 09:30 AM, said:

The times (at least in the US) were different for all of those albums between 1992 and 1996, the United States was coming out of a very bad financial recession. People weren't spending as much. Clinton was re-elected in 1996, in large part for what his administration did for the economy. Couple that with the fact that Mariah has always been a singles artist (singles were also much less expensive to buy than a full album), which is what her management was shooting for at the time. They wanted a slew of chart topping hits. Celine has always been an albums artist as Rene and Celine took a much different approach to her career. It still doesn't take away that both of Mariah's albums mentioned above are among the best selling albums ever in the world.

What is your post in reference to? I am missing your point.

[CelinesDIVO5]

LukeD, on 10 March 2023 - 08:32 AM, said:

What is your post in reference to? I am missing your point.

You were comparing sales to 2 of Mariah's albums that came out before Celine's. Based on the economy, and how people were spending at the time, at least in the US, the sales are comparable.

[LukeD]

CelinesDIVO5, on 10 March 2023 - 01:34 PM, said:

You were comparing sales to 2 of Mariah's albums that came out before Celine's. Based on the economy, and how people were spending at the time, at least in the US, the sales are comparable.

Ok thanks, I think I follow the point now. Thing is, to me Daydream is not on the same league as FIY/LTAL. There is a difference of approximately 10m copies between the former and the latter which has nothing to do with US context. Daydream sold 3m in Europe whereas FIY/LTAL 9m and 10m, respectively. Now, if we were to argue that Daydream would sell more in the US had it been released after 1996 that is a different story. And somewhat speculative. I mean, Butterfly and Rainbow were released in mid/late 90s and sold far less than Mariah's 1990, 1993, 1994, and 1995 releases. I also think those early 90s albums of hers were far superior in terms of quality. So, if we are to really make an argument about sales we would have to consider more criteria than just a market's economy.

[CelinesDIVO5]

LukeD, on 10 March 2023 - 03:34 PM, said:

Ok thanks, I think I follow the point now. Thing is, to me Daydream is not on the same league as FIY/LTAL. There is a difference of approximately 10m copies between the former and the latter which has nothing to do with US context. Daydream sold 3m in Europe whereas FIY/LTAL 9m and 10m, respectively. Now, if we were to argue that Daydream would sell more in the US had it been released after 1996 that is a different story. And somewhat speculative. I mean, Butterfly and Rainbow were released in mid/late 90s and sold far less than Mariah's 1990, 1993, 1994, and 1995 releases. I also think those early 90s albums of hers were far superior in terms of quality. So, if we are to really make an argument about sales we would have to consider more criteria than just a market's economy.

“Butterfly” was unfortunately weighed down by Tommy Mottola in retaliation to their divorce. Mariah had to work insanely hard for that album to have the success that it did. Tommy would only approve of a fraction for cost of marketing on that album. He was a real prick. “Rainbow” came out just as piracy started to really take off. That was unfortunately the beginning of the end for sales for most artists.


As for “Daydream” and its European sales, Celine always had an advantage in Europe over Mariah, honestly. She had the English speaking market in the UK on lockdown after “Think Twice”, and also all of the French speaking countries since she was a child. Mariah’s primary sales are definitely North America. No doubt about that. But I still believe she would have sold at least another 7-8 million of “Daydream” had the economy not been in the toilet. And I think the quality of the album is actually on par with FIY.

“Music Box” sold 8 million more copies than “The Colour Of My Love” and they were both released in 1993. Despite the massive success of TPOL going number 1 on the hot 100, it still didn’t keep up with Mariah’s album regarding sales.

[LukeD]

CelinesDIVO5, on 10 March 2023 - 05:17 PM, said:

"Butterfly" was unfortunately weighed down by Tommy Mottola in retaliation to their divorce. Mariah had to work insanely hard for that album to have the success that it did. Tommy would only approve of a fraction for cost of marketing on that album. He was a real prick. "Rainbow" came out just as piracy started to really take off. That was unfortunately the beginning of the end for sales for most artists.

As for "Daydream" and its European sales, Celine always had an advantage in Europe over Mariah, honestly. She had the English speaking market in the UK on lockdown after "Think Twice", and also all of the French speaking countries since she was a child. Mariah's primary sales are definitely North America. No doubt about that. But I still believe she would have sold at least another 7-8 million of "Daydream" had the economy not been in the toilet. And I think the quality of the album is actually on par with FIY.

"Music Box" sold 8 million more copies than "The Colour Of My Love" and they were both released in 1993. Despite the massive success of TPOL going number 1 on the hot 100, it still didn't keep up with Mariah's album regarding sales.

With all due respect, this is as if I am reading lambs' commentary on YT! Mariah sales become lackluster and there come the excuses:

- Tommy ruined her career
- Piracy
- Poor economy
- 9/11
- Just a Soundtrack
- Racism
- Vocal nodules
- Wrong singles
- Lack of promo

I could literally do the same about TCOML and MB. Had Celine been married to the CEO of Sony Music Entertainment TCOML could have sold as much as MB did. I could also point out that in 1993 Celine was still an emerging recording artist whereas Mariah had been the golden child of her label since day 1 scoring Top 5 singles on Hot 100 (some of which are not even memorable by the way). Key Words: I COULD. Because I do not overthink sales, history is written and they are what they are. Hence the comment you responded to was descriptive.

That said, I do not understand how you are uncritical when it comes to the instances when Mariah outsold Celine (in 1993 for example), but when it comes to the instances when Celine outsold Mariah you bring so many excuses to the table.

One final point is that Celine did not have support from all francophone markets since she was a child. In the 1980s she was big in Quebec, had 1 hit in France and that's about it. She actually had a very hard time establishing herself in markets like France and Belgium. Some releases outside Quebec in late 80s flopped (e.g. Je Ne Veux Pas, La Religieuse, Incognito), and so did the first promotional efforts of Dion Chante Plamondon. It was the success of Ziggy in 1993, when Celine was 25, that solidified her position in francophone markets outside Quebec.

Edited by LukeD, 10 March 2023 - 07:03 PM.

[CelinesDIVO5]

LukeD, on 10 March 2023 - 06:49 PM, said:

With all due respect, this is as if I am reading lambs' commentary on YT! Mariah sales become lackluster and there come the excuses:

- Tommy ruined her career
- Piracy
- Poor economy
- 9/11
- Just a Soundtrack
- Racism
- Vocal nodules
- Wrong singles
- Lack of promo

I could literally do the same about TCOML and MB. Had Celine been married to the CEO of Sony Music Entertainment TCOML could have sold as much as MB did. I could also point out that in 1993 Celine was still an emerging recording artist whereas Mariah had been the golden child of her label since day 1 scoring Top 5 singles on Hot 100 (some of which are not even memorable by the way). Key Words: I COULD. Because I do not overthink sales, history is written and they are what they are. Hence the comment you responded to was descriptive.

That said, I do not understand how you are uncritical when it comes to the instances when Mariah outsold Celine (in 1993 for example), but when it comes to the instances when Celine outsold Mariah you bring so many excuses to the table.

One final point is that Celine did not have support from all francophone markets since she was a child. In the 1980s she was big in Quebec, had 1 hit in France and that's about it. She actually had a very hard time establishing herself in markets like France and Belgium. Some releases outside Quebec in late 80s flopped (e.g. Je Ne Veux Pas, La Religieuse, Incognito), and so did the first promotional efforts of Dion Chante Plamondon. It was the success of Ziggy in 1993, when Celine was 25, that solidified her position in francophone markets outside Quebec.

Celine and Mariah started at the same record label in the same year. Celine also had almost a decade more of a career under her belt by the time she signed with a major label to expand her career internationally. By 1993, Celine was not an emerging artist. She’d already had 3 top 10’s, a Grammy win and was part of an Oscar winning classic. I 100% agree that Mariah’s relationship offered some advantages in the PR department. There’s no argument to that.

I’m not being uncritical. I was focusing on the topic of 2 albums that were being discussed. I was simply pointing out a reason for the sales of these albums. But to also be honest, “Music Box” and “Daydream” were Mariah’s prime, while Celine’s prime was FIY and LTAL. They each had their turns. I was just pointing out that due to economy at the times of each of their eras, the sales were actually comparable.

[Állex Sodi]

LukeD, on 10 March 2023 - 08:30 AM, said:

Mariah's numbers are grossly inflated, as usual. She is nowhere near close to 170m album sales. Some Celine numbers are flawed too, her self-titled album has not sold 10m.

It’s not just Mariah’s numbers, all those sales we see in articles are inflated. They’re all estimated numbers and when you try to track down you mostly never know who estimated. And that’s because, back then, when an album fell of the charts was almost impossible to track sales. You could track shipments, if you believe in label’s numbers, but that’s about it. So, what people do, and I have seen some fans in this forum do it, is to assume the sales after the last “official” number, most of the times in a non realistic way. And I put official between quotes because the fact that it appears on a magazine or article without sources it doesn’t make it official. If we are looking to actual reliable sources, like RIAA, IFPI, Soundscan, all those numbers, Celine’s included, are all way off reality.

[smw]

How do Celine’s RIAA numbers compare to Mariah and Whitney’s?

And are Celine’s RIAA numbers updated?

Edited by smw, 11 March 2023 - 12:44 PM.

[smw]

I can’t remember where I read it… but didn’t Mariah do some questionable stuff behind the scenes in the 90s? In order to get her singles to reach #1 and also to knock others out of the top spot.

I read this in various reputable places over the years - just can’t remember where.

I think Tommy helped Mariah to be huge in the early 90s and he worked against her in the late 90s. Tommy was Team Celine in the late 90s.

Edited by smw, 11 March 2023 - 12:49 PM.

[LukeD]

smw, on 11 March 2023 - 12:44 PM, said:

How do Celine's RIAA numbers compare to Mariah and Whitney's?

And are Celine's RIAA numbers updated?

Mariah has around 73m certified sales in US and they are all up to date. Celine has like 53m certified sales but some of her albums are under-certified.

Unison 1 x P
Celine Dion 2 x P but needs to be 3 x P
The Colour Of My Love 6 x P
Falling Into You 12 x P
Let's Talk About Love 11 x P
These Are Special Times 6 x P
All The Way 7 x P but needs to be 10 x P
The Collector's Series Vol 1 is 1 x Gold but needs to be 1 x P
A New Day Has Come 3 x P
One Heart 2 x P
Miracle 1 x P
A New Day...Live in Las Vegas 1 x Gold
Taking Chances 1 x P
My Love...The Essential Collection is not certified but needs to be 1 x Gold
Loved Me Back To Life is close to 1 x Gold

Once her certifications are updated they will stand at around 58.5 million.

Edited by LukeD, 11 March 2023 - 05:59 PM.

[LukeD]

smw, on 11 March 2023 - 12:48 PM, said:

Tommy was Team Celine in the late 90s.

Rightfully so. Any reasonable CEO would be Team Celine in late 90s as she brought so much money in Her commercial peak is unprecedented. Her album releases from 1996 to 1999 have sold around 110m copies - this is just insane, especially if you consider how successful her tours and singles were as well.

A rough estimation of her strongest singles at that time:

Falling Into You 500.000
Because You Loved Me 5.100.00
It Is All Coming Back To Me Now 4.600.000
All By Myself 2.000.000
Tell Him 1.500.000
Be The Man 200.000
My Heart Will Go On 18.000.000
Immortality 1.500.000
Zora Sourit 250.000
I’m Your Angel 2.500.000
S’il Suffisait D’aimer 400.000
On Ne Change Pas 150.000
That’s The Way It Is 1.700.000

This is almost 40m in single sales! This is all based on data I found here: http://www.celinedio...om/bysingle.htm and UKMIX Forum. Also took into account Spotify streams.

Edited by LukeD, 11 March 2023 - 06:17 PM.